"Independant Contractors"
Join Date: Jan 1998
Location: somewhere in the nth of Oz, where it isn't really cold
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probably NOT the best idea in the world ..
it'd be nice to have a thread that provides info to those who'd like it re the new employment system award and conditions from 1/1/10 .. and not have it culled, closed or otherwise degraded because of some sort of defamation action pending ..
it'd be nice to have a thread that provides info to those who'd like it re the new employment system award and conditions from 1/1/10 .. and not have it culled, closed or otherwise degraded because of some sort of defamation action pending ..
I'm all for naming and shaming....anyone ???
There's fault on both sides with this one.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: broome
Age: 44
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heres the link I think: http://www.business-sa.com/library/A...ard%202010.pdf
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Living next door to Alan
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Aerospace Aviation have been doing it since 1992 when they took poor advice from their idiot accountant at the time (who fancied himself as an aerobatic pilot - since proven not to be very good at accounting or aerobatics).
That was it for me. I bailed when they tried to force the point. I couldn't afford to work for them.
It might be fine for the Gen Y's living with mummy and daddy, and hanging onto the apron strings, but when you have a new family to support on a single income - well the sums just don't quite add up
Hope they get what they deserve.
That was it for me. I bailed when they tried to force the point. I couldn't afford to work for them.
It might be fine for the Gen Y's living with mummy and daddy, and hanging onto the apron strings, but when you have a new family to support on a single income - well the sums just don't quite add up
Hope they get what they deserve.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
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My third attempt to post this message!
Sham contracting - if it appears less than the award give the FWO a bell or jump on their website and use the live help for a quick response (keeping your identity hidden if you like) - and put the light on them. Pretty serious penalties (up to $33000).
As notmyC150v2 said - the FWO are prepared to prosecute for stuff like this and are probably the most useful tool in stopping it.
Sham contracting - if it appears less than the award give the FWO a bell or jump on their website and use the live help for a quick response (keeping your identity hidden if you like) - and put the light on them. Pretty serious penalties (up to $33000).
As notmyC150v2 said - the FWO are prepared to prosecute for stuff like this and are probably the most useful tool in stopping it.
Join Date: Jul 2009
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The general view seems to be that these operators do it, knowingly, for as long as they can until they are forced to do it properly. ie. The FWO...
...two years later - they have 20 - 30 new spineless noobies and are back to their old tricks - perhaps 5 - 10 years later, 'one' has the ballz to take them and so the cycle starts again...
...two years later - they have 20 - 30 new spineless noobies and are back to their old tricks - perhaps 5 - 10 years later, 'one' has the ballz to take them and so the cycle starts again...
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Wanna Be Up There...
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Magical,
I know that was certainly the case some years ago, but if they play that game now they are in for a world of hurt.
If you look at the FWO website and check out their prosecutions page you will see case after case of massive fines being levied as well as the backpay order.
In the old days employers could play the game of chicken with industrial authorities because the only risk was backpay. But when you face the risk of backpay AND fines of up to $250,000 (so far) it is a whole other ball game.
Remember that the maximum fine of $33,000 is for each offence and every time you underpay someone that is a new offence. So the damage adds up really quickly.
I know that was certainly the case some years ago, but if they play that game now they are in for a world of hurt.
If you look at the FWO website and check out their prosecutions page you will see case after case of massive fines being levied as well as the backpay order.
In the old days employers could play the game of chicken with industrial authorities because the only risk was backpay. But when you face the risk of backpay AND fines of up to $250,000 (so far) it is a whole other ball game.
Remember that the maximum fine of $33,000 is for each offence and every time you underpay someone that is a new offence. So the damage adds up really quickly.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
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F##k me.
What could be so hard to understand. I can't believe there are clowns out there who try and defend this practice.
It's simple boys and girls. If you with a flying school........9.5 times out of ten...you ARE an employee.
You are entitled to super, workers comp protection...etc...etc...etc at the applicable award rate.
Any employer who tells you otherwise is a lying, cheating, substandard genetically challenged, slimy grub.
I'm not that interested in hearing the "market forces" or "this a tough business" or "thats what you gotta do to get ahead" or "pay your dues" or "builds character and one day you'll look back with fondness on your GA days" type of arguments.
People have to live.
The reason that this industry is where it is today is BECAUSE of the arguments and attitudes stated above.
No bloody wonder Qantas and Jetstar blokes are at one anothers throats, no wonder Rex boys and girls put up with the conditions they have, no wonder that the vast majority of business owners at the GAAPS etc cry poor whilst living the good life, no wonder operators don't pay for renewals and so.
It's because of the rubbish that people spout on both sides of the argument.
Here's a phrase......"a fair days work for a fair days pay".
Not hard to achieve I'm thinking.
What could be so hard to understand. I can't believe there are clowns out there who try and defend this practice.
It's simple boys and girls. If you with a flying school........9.5 times out of ten...you ARE an employee.
You are entitled to super, workers comp protection...etc...etc...etc at the applicable award rate.
Any employer who tells you otherwise is a lying, cheating, substandard genetically challenged, slimy grub.
I'm not that interested in hearing the "market forces" or "this a tough business" or "thats what you gotta do to get ahead" or "pay your dues" or "builds character and one day you'll look back with fondness on your GA days" type of arguments.
People have to live.
The reason that this industry is where it is today is BECAUSE of the arguments and attitudes stated above.
No bloody wonder Qantas and Jetstar blokes are at one anothers throats, no wonder Rex boys and girls put up with the conditions they have, no wonder that the vast majority of business owners at the GAAPS etc cry poor whilst living the good life, no wonder operators don't pay for renewals and so.
It's because of the rubbish that people spout on both sides of the argument.
Here's a phrase......"a fair days work for a fair days pay".
Not hard to achieve I'm thinking.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
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notmyC150v2 - I agree - the damage can be huge and even result in a company of 20-100 employees sinking.
Nevertheless - that should be all the more reason NOT to under pay or sham contract.
Any one of us could make a killing if we set up a manufacturing business and exploited FOBs, ie. gave them $40 a day - but the law deters most of us from trying.
Many large notable schools are still paying as little as $20 per flying hour. Yes - some will say the employees should not accept it/walk away, however, as with my fictitious manufacturing factory a FOB can say no and walk away - and I'll just find another one to exploit until I get caught.
If you want to cause a shake up at your school - drop an anonymous complaint in with the FWO and watch how quickly they duck for cover - followed by things hopefully changing! Even better - get a few people on board and watch it happen even quicker.
I think it is inexcusable.
Nevertheless - that should be all the more reason NOT to under pay or sham contract.
Any one of us could make a killing if we set up a manufacturing business and exploited FOBs, ie. gave them $40 a day - but the law deters most of us from trying.
Many large notable schools are still paying as little as $20 per flying hour. Yes - some will say the employees should not accept it/walk away, however, as with my fictitious manufacturing factory a FOB can say no and walk away - and I'll just find another one to exploit until I get caught.
If you want to cause a shake up at your school - drop an anonymous complaint in with the FWO and watch how quickly they duck for cover - followed by things hopefully changing! Even better - get a few people on board and watch it happen even quicker.
I think it is inexcusable.
