Calling all aircraft owners - fixed costs?
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Calling all aircraft owners - fixed costs?
Hello
I would appreciate some advice on some of the costs involved in operating a S/E aircraft.
Is there an annual registration fee payable to CASA? What about initial fees to put it in the register for the first time?
Any recommendations for Insurance brokers and finance companies that handle light aircraft?
Many thanks
I would appreciate some advice on some of the costs involved in operating a S/E aircraft.
Is there an annual registration fee payable to CASA? What about initial fees to put it in the register for the first time?
Any recommendations for Insurance brokers and finance companies that handle light aircraft?
Many thanks
If the aircraft is off the register, it may cost you BIG bucks to get it back on - CASA will only charge $130 but its the things CASA requires that hurt.
We have (or rather, we manage/operate) a large twin that fell off the register 12 months ago because he owner didn't know arse from elbow.
It will take a FULL 100-hourly inspection + re-weigh + airworthiness compliance survey (checking all ADs etc are complied with) to get it back on the register - all up, about $20,000.
Damn glad I'm not paying THAT bill.
For a SE aircraft, expect an additional fixed cost - each year your LAMEs will give you a $1500 "surprise".
Other fixed costs are Insurance (about $3k); (at least one) annual inspection; "season pass" for landing fees at your home aerodrome; and that's about all I can recall after half a bottle of red.
(thread drift... if we are giving advice based on our professional experience, is PPRuNe-ing a SSAA? Or only if we are PPRuNe-ing on the airside?
)
We have (or rather, we manage/operate) a large twin that fell off the register 12 months ago because he owner didn't know arse from elbow.
It will take a FULL 100-hourly inspection + re-weigh + airworthiness compliance survey (checking all ADs etc are complied with) to get it back on the register - all up, about $20,000.
Damn glad I'm not paying THAT bill.
For a SE aircraft, expect an additional fixed cost - each year your LAMEs will give you a $1500 "surprise".
Other fixed costs are Insurance (about $3k); (at least one) annual inspection; "season pass" for landing fees at your home aerodrome; and that's about all I can recall after half a bottle of red.
(thread drift... if we are giving advice based on our professional experience, is PPRuNe-ing a SSAA? Or only if we are PPRuNe-ing on the airside?
)
Arnold
An SE aircraft is a World-war I aircraft, such as the SE5A.
Obviously, you are NOTworthy.
Obviously, you are NOTworthy.
Quite clearly I am not worthy, But, not only do I not know what an S/E arcraft is, but what is SSAA. Jeez am I sighning for stuff i dont know about, clearly the answer is YES
Indeed I are a pilot, AND ingerneer (once upon a time I couldn't spell it), and have only learnt tonight how much I dont know, scary realy( Hmm 1 l or two, two I think).
Last edited by Arnold E; 19th Jul 2009 at 11:20.
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Big Night Sky,
For example:
Flog.
- Insurance
- Hangarage
- Cleaning / washing
- Registration transfer (one off)
- 100 hourly / annual
For example:
- paint
- hoses
- prop (factor it in if you don't intend to run it out of life before time...)
- radio / instrument checks
- corrosion checks (assuming it's not a new aircraft and someone, somewhere in the world finds a cracked spar on your model plane in the near to medium term)
- and there's more but I'm not on my PC with the uber spreadsheet.
Flog.
I think thats funny, 60 years old, cpl and been in engineering almost forever and own a "S/E" aircraft and have never seen single engine as S/E, goes to show you can learn something every day. As for SSAA, phuut! never heard of it.
Last edited by Arnold E; 19th Jul 2009 at 12:44.
Yeah you learn something new everyday in aviation. As for SSAA, that's a newbie from CASA regarding AOD testing (ha... there I go again. That's Alcohol and Other Drugs).
Sorry for the extreme thread drift folks...
Sorry for the extreme thread drift folks...
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Yeah, that's hilarious Arnold! Here's another one for you old mate.....ever heard of M/E? Now I'm not gunna give you any clues, you have enough material to work with.
Back to the point though, thanks to those who have contributed. I'll go back to one of my original Q's (that's a 'question' Arnold). Is there an annual registration fee (like for a motor vehicle)? I have searched the CASA website and all they seem to tell you is how much they love to charge you just to get off their ar*ses and submit an application for just about everything!
As far as an annual maintenance inspection is concerned, generally how long and what is involved with this?
Thanks again
No junk mail please!
Back to the point though, thanks to those who have contributed. I'll go back to one of my original Q's (that's a 'question' Arnold). Is there an annual registration fee (like for a motor vehicle)? I have searched the CASA website and all they seem to tell you is how much they love to charge you just to get off their ar*ses and submit an application for just about everything!
As far as an annual maintenance inspection is concerned, generally how long and what is involved with this?
Thanks again
No junk mail please!
There is NO annual registration fee from CASA.
Annual - Well depends how bad your S/E (A) is. Have had them in and out in a week or as long as 2 months. Really going to depend on the state of the plane and what you want/need done.
Allow a decent time and lot of $$ for your first annual. Your LAME is going to find things that the last LAME didn't. Not to say they are bad things, just things he wants to address that others didn't.
Annual - Well depends how bad your S/E (A) is. Have had them in and out in a week or as long as 2 months. Really going to depend on the state of the plane and what you want/need done.
Allow a decent time and lot of $$ for your first annual. Your LAME is going to find things that the last LAME didn't. Not to say they are bad things, just things he wants to address that others didn't.
I have a friend with a C185 and he says 30,000 a year for about 100 hours of flying. (total costs). Is that reasonable? Seems a lot to me. The other 'problem' is convincing 'she who must be obeyed', "havn't you had enough of flying?"...........etc. Then worse, is having to deal with the Dept of changing names.
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I have a friend with a C185 and he says 30,000 a year for about 100 hours of flying. (total costs). Is that reasonable? Seems a lot to me. The other 'problem' is convincing 'she who must be obeyed', "havn't you had enough of flying?"...........etc. Then worse, is having to deal with the Dept of changing names.
My Auster costs about $10,000 per year for approx 50 hours but I get free hangarage.
So it costs me approx $200 per hour, but that's without inclusion of engine overhaul (due) and props etc.
I haven't added those in for fear of what they represent but it would probably add another $20 per hour.
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BNS
All costs will vary from type to type.
Have you owned before? do you want private usage or will it be on line/for hire to others? Do you need hangarage? Do you need insurance?(not everyone insures their aircraft) Do you want a "go somewhere with people and baggage" aeroplane or will a "get up and look around with the occasional fly away" ultralight suit you?
Need to ask yourself plenty of questions before deciding upon type, but when you do make that decision pay the engineer WHO WILL BE MAINTAINING the aeroplane to look it over and tell you what they would be doing to it in the near future if they were maintaining it.
No good you buying joe blow's 182 because the engineer that has maintained it for 25 years gave it a clean bill of health. Engineers get complacent too and when you take it to your local LAME he might ****can the corrosion in the wings that the other lame has looked at for the last 10 years and kept saying "next year" to.
Hope this aids you in your decision.
All costs will vary from type to type.
Have you owned before? do you want private usage or will it be on line/for hire to others? Do you need hangarage? Do you need insurance?(not everyone insures their aircraft) Do you want a "go somewhere with people and baggage" aeroplane or will a "get up and look around with the occasional fly away" ultralight suit you?
Need to ask yourself plenty of questions before deciding upon type, but when you do make that decision pay the engineer WHO WILL BE MAINTAINING the aeroplane to look it over and tell you what they would be doing to it in the near future if they were maintaining it.
No good you buying joe blow's 182 because the engineer that has maintained it for 25 years gave it a clean bill of health. Engineers get complacent too and when you take it to your local LAME he might ****can the corrosion in the wings that the other lame has looked at for the last 10 years and kept saying "next year" to.
Hope this aids you in your decision.
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Calling all aircraft owners - fixed costs?
Think of a number double it, treble it, whatever, you'll be wrong. Once you learn to live with that idea you'll be fine. Small S/E aircraft generally cost much less than big complicated ones is about all I have learned over the years. There's no predicting costs by age or hours. All LAME's are different and charge you more and take much longer than you think because the last one was an idiot and did it all wrong and then they tell you how lucky you are bringing it to them, even if they did take 3 months to do a 100hrly whilst they fart around doing the the big guys jobs.. They are MUCH quicker at taking your aircraft to pieces than putting them back together again.... - and generally go deaf if you dare to think in terms of modern concepts like customer service. Cheaper ones are NOT usually worse than expensive ones. You know you might have a good one when the prop does not fall off on the first flight after a 100hrly.
Insurance? Ask for a quote. Start with QBE Aviation, then try Brokers like Marsh. They're all much of a muchness. Very little competition in this country. Really aircraft ownership is just an open invitation to receive awful service and be ripped off by whoever you deal with, airports, air services, fuel suppliers, so called 'engineers' parts suppliers, manufacturers.. you name it! I just can't understand why I keep doing it!
Numbers? No idea! say doing the usual 100hrs per year or so - a 150 might cost $12K a 210 might cost $35K (+ the unexpected)
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Perhaps you could suggest a particular aircraft type so the armchair experts can help you with a more refined pricing expectations (particularly those here commenting in detail that have never owned an aircraft).
PS: Get a good hangar so this doesn't happen.
PS: Get a good hangar so this doesn't happen.