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Industry Standards?? Any below standard Airline Pilots out there?

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Industry Standards?? Any below standard Airline Pilots out there?

Old 20th Jun 2009, 08:57
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Industry Standards?? Any below standard Airline Pilots out there?

Are the current Check and Training Captains in Australia maintaining the required standards?, or

Does lowering costs mean the inevitable lowering of operating standards?

Genuinely interested in people's opinions.

MM
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 09:58
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MM.

The IOSA registry of IATA members would be a good starting point for those airlines which meet at least the minimum standard required for membership.

Registry
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 10:04
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Tiger and Jetstar have been omitted from the list?
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 10:08
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Are you serious Mstr Caution.
Of course training down to a cost has to be better than training up to an expensive standard ,higher than what is legislated.
Just ask any CEO running an airline in Australia today.
How else is management going to justify their exorbitant bonus'.
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 10:18
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Hahahaha. I smell Journo!!! Anyway, have a close look at that list. Do you really think that just because an airline is on that list they are any better than another? You are kidding, aren't you?
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 11:37
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They have allowed themselves to be measured by an internationally recognized standard.

What would anyone have to hide?

Last edited by Agent Mulder; 20th Jun 2009 at 11:56.
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 12:48
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BnG - The audit looks at what happens after the training is long finished.

PM - Garuda is absent from the list, but Air France is on it. So you are correct, being on the list wont gaurantee an accident doesn't happen.
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 21:28
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Nice try journo! Assuming you're also Mr. Fibonacci asking the same kind of question in another thread? One post wonders are dead give aways everytime.

Loser
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 23:11
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Below standard?

In any trade or profession, there are people who are exceptional, there are people who do their job very well (the majority), and there are perhaps a few who are marginal.

This is the case with doctors, lawyers, journalists, plumbers, mechanic, proctologists.....................................any job at all.

They occur in roughly the same percentages in all industries, all companies (large and small) and are a fact of life.

For your next post, you might consider a sensible subject.
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 23:20
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What do you mean by standard? Maintenance, meals, service, crews??

If all you did was train 365 days for every possible continegency you would never get an aircraft airborne.
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 23:44
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DRAGUN, so I take your answer to be yes, then. Thank you.

CHIMBU WARRIOR, your answer is almost what I need. With your other examples I can personally choose the appropriate person for the job, which is mainly price dependant. Simply the best professionals in a field generally charge more.

Airline Pilots are different in this respect so I rely on the Check and Training Captains of any given operator to make informed decisions on the travelling public's behalf.

So more specifically, 'Do your Check and Training Captains apply the same standards today as were applied in 1994, or have the standards been relaxed to accomodate a less expensive Jet Airline Pilot workforce?'

Is this not a relevant question given some of the revelations made about the overseas Airline industry in recent times?

MM
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 23:54
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It's a slow news day Dragun, cut the poor guy a bit of slack, even journos are entitled to make a buck !
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 00:29
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Maybe you should do one on other professions. How often do they get checked?

I get checked 4 times a year. Every company I've worked for has had check captains with high standards. This includes shitbox turbine charter companies that make low cost carriers look like caviar and champange outfits. I think you might be drawing a long bow in trying to link low cost carriers to check standards. Check Captains know that if they pass someone that then crashes an airplane that they will be called upon.

What you might find is that resources for training are less but I might be wrong. Or it could be that the LCC's are harsher during checks due to their unwillingness to spend on extra training....? Don't know.
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 06:05
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There are always "below standard" pilots who manage to slip through the cracks. However I truly believe our industry does a far better job of catching them than many other professional industries.

Medicine, for example, is having a difficult time (though it is at least trying on several fronts) catching up to aviation in this respect. That's specialist-doctor-in-the-family knowledge, BTW.

Check & training captains usually have a vested interest in making sure that someone makes the appropriate grade, and that remains the same today. The last thing a training captain wants is to be facing the Coroner, the bulldog lawyer, and the ACA journo kicking his door down asking him why he passed a sub-standard pilot on his last check ride.
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 06:39
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Red face Below standard Pilots

Possibly, however nowhere near as many 2nd. rate journalist's.

Last edited by capt.cynical; 21st Jun 2009 at 07:40.
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 06:49
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Are the current Check and Training Captains in Australia maintaining the required standards?, or
If there is a concern that Check and Training Captains are not maintaining a required standard then surely the more pertinent question would have been.

Are there sub-standard Check and Training departments and or Captains operating within Australian Airlines?


Unfortunately, there's no forum anonymous enough to give that answer.

joe crazyhorse.
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 07:11
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Just like lawyers, doctors and brickies, there are pilots and even checkies whose standards vary from excellent to marginal. The advent of the LCC has probably made no difference to the percentages of the good, the bad and the ugly. Back in the good (or bad, depending on who was paying) old days when there were two highly-protected airlines in this country, training cost was no barrier. But I still came across a few sub-standard pilots who had slipped through the net for years.
However, even the not-so-good can often scrub up just well enough to pass their regular checks. The checkie can only assess what he sees on the day.
Fortunately, for every dodgy captain there are 100 or maybe 1000 good co-pilots, and vice versa. So the odds of a safe flight are stilll pretty good.
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 08:40
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Heard at a recent workshop that 200,000 people die in the USA due to human error by medical staff
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 09:46
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DRAGUN, so I take your answer to be yes, then. Thank you.
Ummm, how did you deduce a 'yes' answer out of that?

Oh wait, you're a journo - it's your 'job' to make up false facts and twist information to make it sound like what you want before publishing.

Loser
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Old 21st Jun 2009, 09:51
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And somewhere more than five times the national road toll in Oz are needlessly dispatched every year by our medical system.

Iatrogenesis, look it up.

Regards,
BH.
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