Log Book Forgery
Check Attitude
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Location: Queensland, Australia
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Outside of the flying school environment, VDO, Hobbs or tacho time is seldom used.
(VDO or Hobbs time often run while ever the master switch is on and oil pressure is present, thus maximum dollars for the school.)
Instead, most times are written down as "Off Blocks - On Blocks" or "Engine start - Engine stop" for flight time, and "wheels off - wheels on" for M/R time.
Airlines and GA charter usually document these times in a flight log or "Deck Log".
Where a suitable documentation method is not in use, e.g. helicopter mustering, a flight hour recorder fulfills the means to record the time.
Most panel mount Garmin GPS have a "Trip Time" page where Ground speed above a user specified value (usually about 50 kts) is recorded as flight time.
I've seen instances of pilots "losing" or having had stolen their log books.
Perhaps so as to create a new one with sufficient multi or whatever hrs was needed for a particular purpose?
Not sure who goes around stealing log books and what their market value is.
CASA audits of AOC holders will cross reference company flight records, maintenance release entries and pilot logbooks.
Heli and Ag work will often involve correlation of fuel purchased vs hours claimed to have been flown, this caught out at least one operator I know of.
(VDO or Hobbs time often run while ever the master switch is on and oil pressure is present, thus maximum dollars for the school.)
Instead, most times are written down as "Off Blocks - On Blocks" or "Engine start - Engine stop" for flight time, and "wheels off - wheels on" for M/R time.
Airlines and GA charter usually document these times in a flight log or "Deck Log".
Where a suitable documentation method is not in use, e.g. helicopter mustering, a flight hour recorder fulfills the means to record the time.
Most panel mount Garmin GPS have a "Trip Time" page where Ground speed above a user specified value (usually about 50 kts) is recorded as flight time.
I've seen instances of pilots "losing" or having had stolen their log books.
Perhaps so as to create a new one with sufficient multi or whatever hrs was needed for a particular purpose?
Not sure who goes around stealing log books and what their market value is.
CASA audits of AOC holders will cross reference company flight records, maintenance release entries and pilot logbooks.
Heli and Ag work will often involve correlation of fuel purchased vs hours claimed to have been flown, this caught out at least one operator I know of.
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I've seen instances of pilots "losing" or having had stolen their log books.
Perhaps so as to create a new one with sufficient multi or whatever hrs was needed for a particular purpose?
Not sure who goes around stealing log books and what their market value is.
Perhaps so as to create a new one with sufficient multi or whatever hrs was needed for a particular purpose?
Not sure who goes around stealing log books and what their market value is.
Heli and Ag work will often involve correlation of fuel purchased vs hours claimed to have been flown, this caught out at least one operator I know of.
FRQ CB
Join Date: Aug 2003
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I know of a couple of pilots currently operating for big companies out of Perth and one out of Sydney who would be sweating if ever their log books were checked!!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
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who would be sweating if ever their log books were checked!!!
Strike two. Examination of the destinations and subsequent flight times logged for each sector he claimed to have flown, revealed he must have averaged 300 knots every sector in the Chieftain.
Strike Three. He claimed 500 hours on a light twin as check and training captain yet was unable to start the engines of the claimed type without the use of a written check-list.
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Originally Posted by Amatuer
Also, is it legal to have whiteout on our logbooks?
I came to OZ in the mid 80s, from a country that will remain nameless so GG won't hang **** on me.
I strolled into the Dept of Constant Name change with my logbook and my NZ, err mystery country's CPL and started the validation process. Was told that I need 200 hours ATOs (plus Law pass, medical etc) to get an OZ CPL. Totaled up my ATO hours and was about 20 short. Was real unhappy when I was handed a Student Licence. Those 20 hours resulted in circumstances that had a major detrimental impact on my life and has lost me over 22 years of an aviation career because instead of logging the extra hours in ZK BIC, I took the SPL, got a PPL, sat all the OZ CPL exams and then buggered my back in a factory while saving for the MECIR that was next after the CPL flight test.
Sometimes it doesn't pay to be honest so I really hope that airbus captain mentioned months ago (he doesn't deserve a capital C in his title) and all the others who have gotten flying jobs with bogus hours get caught and have their lives turned upside down.
On the upside, I hope to have my medical back in the next few months and then at the ripe young age of 54 it is out and try and find a job. I still have 15 to 20 years plus flying time left.
Really not looking forward to driving up round FNQ and WA.....I HATE driving, 
k it! 
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Biggles, I for one would like to encourage you not to regret what you have done. You have done the correct and honest thing and you can be proud of that and still sleep well at night regardless of whether or not CASA is on the prowl. I hope you get where you want to go. Your honesty should be rewarded in this day and age where honesty and integrity is harder and harder to find. Goodluck!
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Bs hours
I remember a bloke I worked with once brought his log book in for scrutiny by caa in png. The cp looked through and started yelling - why the freak have you logged a 7th day flying? And WTF you've done 1100 hrs for the year.
Poor fella couldn't respond.
Not only was he abused for going over hours - but was then asked to forge the book by deleting hours for the upcoming caa audit - end conclusion was the cp misplacing one logbook from caa.
2 other interesting guys at the same place. 1 was a bloke so in love with writing in logbooks he just bought 2 logbooks and filled them both out (legally) just so he could add it up twice.
The last bloke there reckoned he had 1000hrs flying - right on mins for the job. But when asked he flat out said he bs'd the hours. Kicked out of that particular job he scammed another joint only to run off the end of the runway. Guess bs doesn't buy experience. Dunno where he is now- hopefully not flying...
Poor fella couldn't respond.
Not only was he abused for going over hours - but was then asked to forge the book by deleting hours for the upcoming caa audit - end conclusion was the cp misplacing one logbook from caa.
2 other interesting guys at the same place. 1 was a bloke so in love with writing in logbooks he just bought 2 logbooks and filled them both out (legally) just so he could add it up twice.
The last bloke there reckoned he had 1000hrs flying - right on mins for the job. But when asked he flat out said he bs'd the hours. Kicked out of that particular job he scammed another joint only to run off the end of the runway. Guess bs doesn't buy experience. Dunno where he is now- hopefully not flying...
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Long time lurker / reader, first time poster, and a non-pilot to boot, so this is probably a fool idiot question... flame suit on...
If I were to move my aircraft from parking to refuelling, refuel the aircraft, then proceed to engine test, taxi, and takeoff, can I legally claim the entire time as logbook hours under the "chocks off, chocks on" requirement?
If I were to move my aircraft from parking to refuelling, refuel the aircraft, then proceed to engine test, taxi, and takeoff, can I legally claim the entire time as logbook hours under the "chocks off, chocks on" requirement?
When you live....
Not if you shutdown to refuel - the clock would start again.
Of course if you started up, INTENDED to taxi for departure and then, as you passed the fuel bowser decided you needed some fuel for mum & kids so stopped to get some, then you could legally log that.
The law is an ass....
Of course if you started up, INTENDED to taxi for departure and then, as you passed the fuel bowser decided you needed some fuel for mum & kids so stopped to get some, then you could legally log that.
The law is an ass....
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Everyone has different rules and methods of working out your time. For those perfectionists carrying a stopwatch around and exact timiming will work.
Personally I just add 0.1 for each landing and 0.1 for morning run ups, onto the MR time for the day. Seems to work well and averages out, as some taxi times are quick and others are longer. This may not work if you fly at a major airport with large delays on taxi.
Put it this way, you know yourself when you are cheating the system! If you can live with that then good for you!
Personally I just add 0.1 for each landing and 0.1 for morning run ups, onto the MR time for the day. Seems to work well and averages out, as some taxi times are quick and others are longer. This may not work if you fly at a major airport with large delays on taxi.
Put it this way, you know yourself when you are cheating the system! If you can live with that then good for you
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Log Book Forgery
Your log book(s) are a record of your flying career, if you do forge them, then every time you look in the mirror, you will know that your word, cannot be trusted.
Tmb
Tmb
I came to OZ in the mid 80s, from a country that will remain nameless so GG won't hang **** on me. 
I strolled into the Dept of Constant Name change with my logbook and my NZ, err mystery country's CPL and started the validation process. Was told that I need 200 hours ATOs (plus Law pass, medical etc) to get an OZ CPL. Totaled up my ATO hours and was about 20 short. Was real unhappy when I was handed a Student Licence.
I strolled into the Dept of Constant Name change with my logbook and my NZ, err mystery country's CPL and started the validation process. Was told that I need 200 hours ATOs (plus Law pass, medical etc) to get an OZ CPL. Totaled up my ATO hours and was about 20 short. Was real unhappy when I was handed a Student Licence.
The infamous Harold Bennett added up my log book and pointed out the fact that I was 5 hrs out.
Dr
). Hope the 5 hours was in your favor. Join Date: Apr 2005
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I don't know about now but in the RAAF our log books were checked by the flight commander every month and signed as a true record. A junior officer was first given the task of comparing the log book hours with the squadron flight records then the log book was signed by the flight commander. No way could hours be faked. If mistakes discovered in the log book you were severely bollocked. Bit different in GA where anything goes and personal integrity goes out the window.
Many years ago saw a former Ansett first officers log book where he claimed 2500 hours of instrument flying in 727's in a total of 5000 hours. Cheating? Sure; but it got him a job in Dragonair where he eventually became a very rich captain. Crime sometimes does pay
Many years ago saw a former Ansett first officers log book where he claimed 2500 hours of instrument flying in 727's in a total of 5000 hours. Cheating? Sure; but it got him a job in Dragonair where he eventually became a very rich captain. Crime sometimes does pay
Folks,
Have a good read of the other current thread on this subject --- "Inaccurate Log Book Entries"
The law on this is relatively simple, and has not changed in years, ignore it at your peril.
Remember, it is a bit like speeding, it doesn't matter how many people do it, that doesn't make an unlawful entry lawful.
Tootle pip!!
Have a good read of the other current thread on this subject --- "Inaccurate Log Book Entries"
The law on this is relatively simple, and has not changed in years, ignore it at your peril.
Remember, it is a bit like speeding, it doesn't matter how many people do it, that doesn't make an unlawful entry lawful.
Tootle pip!!
