DAPs or Jepps
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Join Date: May 2009
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DAPs or Jepps (2nd hand $)
Hi,
Just trying to decide whether to update my original DAPs or get some Jepps, any ideas?
Also, anyone got a second hand Jepps on offer? May take the Jepps if it costs around to same to update the AIP and DAPS.
Thanks
w627
Just trying to decide whether to update my original DAPs or get some Jepps, any ideas?
Also, anyone got a second hand Jepps on offer? May take the Jepps if it costs around to same to update the AIP and DAPS.
Thanks
w627
Join Date: Jul 2005
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If you want to fly airlines or overseas - go the Jepps. They do contain a lot of information that is very useful once you get used to them.
Whatever you choose - it least it is tax deductible (just trying to be positive).
Whatever you choose - it least it is tax deductible (just trying to be positive).
Personally I find the AIP/DAPS easier to read
Go Jepps!
Dr
Jepp is a shambles. I constantly on the email telling them their stuffups. I'm surprised CASA hasn't jumped on them. DAP charts are easier to read, the ERSA craps all over the Airport Directory and the main "AIP" part of Jepps is just as bad as AIP. Give me AIP any day. The only good thing about Jepps is the thin paper.
As for the two-weekly amendments
- I can't wait 'til I retire!! They are enough to drive one out of aviation.
As for the two-weekly amendments
- I can't wait 'til I retire!! They are enough to drive one out of aviation.
Join Date: Dec 2006
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DAPs show you the sector entry for the approach you're doing which for me is a big plus. You don't really want to be playing with your hands and fingers in working out the sector entry when you're about to do an instrument approach (believe me, you'll be very busy!!)
Furthermore, if you're really short of cash, you can always access the latest DAP charts from Airservices Australia's website; print off the ones that you need for your training. All free of charge. (Although for flight test, I believe you need a set of DAPs to show the ATO that you have a current set of charts, AIPs and CAO's.)
Furthermore, if you're really short of cash, you can always access the latest DAP charts from Airservices Australia's website; print off the ones that you need for your training. All free of charge. (Although for flight test, I believe you need a set of DAPs to show the ATO that you have a current set of charts, AIPs and CAO's.)
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How bout electronic jepps via Jeppview? Print what you need, u get the enroute charts, use your laptop as a moving map...and the amendments are automatic via the net
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs
... the ERSA craps all over the Airport Directory...
To be honest with you, I don't think I've ever seen a more poorly organised or laid-out AIP document than the ERSA. It's full of pages of information you just don't need and missing a crap-load of information that should be in.
The Jepp's are a bit of a learning curve, to be sure -but at least the layout is consistent, information can be found for every airport at the appropriate sequential page number and after just a wee while using them, I ain't hunting for information like I have been.
Sure, you bleed thru the ears when purchasing them and like others I've had some teething problems with update deliveries, but get onto Jepp, they're straight on the ball and subsequent updates are sorted.
Can't go past 'em in AUS IMO.
I must admit, the fact that Bankstown is under Sydney - Bankstown waisted a good amount of my time (and thinking I was crazy) the first time I was introduced to the ERSA!
DAPs show you the sector entry for the approach you're doing which for me is a big plus.
I prefer the twice monthly Jepp updates over the DAP ones, a hell of alot easier to keep track of.
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The Jepp charts show the sector entry aswell.......
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Many Jepp charts do - can't show it online but Jepp 13-3 BNE VOR has a diagram for sector entry. Kalgoorlie VOR Approach 13-1 has a sector entry on it. Cairns NBD/VOR 13-1 has one....
I am sure there are some without it, but so far the ones I have looked at certainly do.... - in most cases its just a small inlay with the sector entries and degrees of the axis for entry.
I am sure there are some without it, but so far the ones I have looked at certainly do.... - in most cases its just a small inlay with the sector entries and degrees of the axis for entry.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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My humble opinion is - I think the Jepp plates are far nicer to use and read. I very much like the fact that everything is included in the airways manual - the equivalent of DAPs, ERSA, AIP, all TACs and ERCs - the fortnightly amendments cover everything. Once I got my head around where all the information was, I never looked back.
I do agree that the Airport Directory (ERSA equivalent) is not very well presented, and I generally buy an ERSA as well, especially as that's something that gets thrown around a lot in flight.
The holding diagram does show little sector entry paths, but it's not too useful - although I suppose it's a good visual cue to confirm you've planned and briefed the entry properly.
So personally I love 'em, have no desire to go to DAPs. And I've never got the calculator out, but after you allow for the fact you don't have to buy AIP or DAP or their amendments, or buy ERCs, TACs etc. again, the cost is probably quite good.
I do agree that the Airport Directory (ERSA equivalent) is not very well presented, and I generally buy an ERSA as well, especially as that's something that gets thrown around a lot in flight.
The holding diagram does show little sector entry paths, but it's not too useful - although I suppose it's a good visual cue to confirm you've planned and briefed the entry properly.
So personally I love 'em, have no desire to go to DAPs. And I've never got the calculator out, but after you allow for the fact you don't have to buy AIP or DAP or their amendments, or buy ERCs, TACs etc. again, the cost is probably quite good.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I was in the same predicament a while back about wether to stay with Jepps or switch back to DAP's and after a bit of research looking at the differences between what the charts and approach plates had to offer I found that Jepps were the way to go.
Also price wise, when u think about how everything comes with the Jepps u end up a bit better off on the dollar value compared to DAP's...
At the end of the day it is a personal preference. I was having a conversation similar to this with a few of the guys/gals at work a while back, and some use DAP's and the rest use Jepps, they both have their pro's and con's but it comes down to individual preference.
Also price wise, when u think about how everything comes with the Jepps u end up a bit better off on the dollar value compared to DAP's...
At the end of the day it is a personal preference. I was having a conversation similar to this with a few of the guys/gals at work a while back, and some use DAP's and the rest use Jepps, they both have their pro's and con's but it comes down to individual preference.
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Thanks for the inputs guys, I think I am leaning towards the Jepps, but would like to know if there would be second hand copies on offer and how much they would cost.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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If you still have exams to do, stay with airservices until you have done IREX and ATPL's. I saw alot of grief from the guys using Jepps in these exams, those crappy thin maps where a scrunched up heap on the floor by the end of the exam 
other pro's for daps:
1. They fit in A5 sleaves so you dont need to buy special expensive ones that fit the jepp charts.
2. Alternate minima is not displayed on the app chart, its on the airport diagram page i think, daps have that info on each chart which is handy
3.You can buy the relevent maps and DAP East or West if you only fly in one area, this makes a HUGE saving over jepps
4. Procedural turns have the tracks written on them, you dont need to work them out yourself.
5. I prefer the dap sector entry layout, jepps have a whole page devoted to it which is a bit excessive IMO.
Dont take all these as gospel! I may have been misinformed!
Oh and why do jepps have all those updates? My daps are about a year old and Ive done about 3-4 updates since, while my jepp companion's have had something like 15!!!! If my daps are up to date with only 3, then what the hell is getting updated in all those jepp updates????
other pro's for daps:
1. They fit in A5 sleaves so you dont need to buy special expensive ones that fit the jepp charts.
2. Alternate minima is not displayed on the app chart, its on the airport diagram page i think, daps have that info on each chart which is handy
3.You can buy the relevent maps and DAP East or West if you only fly in one area, this makes a HUGE saving over jepps
4. Procedural turns have the tracks written on them, you dont need to work them out yourself.
5. I prefer the dap sector entry layout, jepps have a whole page devoted to it which is a bit excessive IMO.
Dont take all these as gospel! I may have been misinformed!
Oh and why do jepps have all those updates? My daps are about a year old and Ive done about 3-4 updates since, while my jepp companion's have had something like 15!!!! If my daps are up to date with only 3, then what the hell is getting updated in all those jepp updates????
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SM227 - I know this is all down to opinion, but I thought I'd throw my thoughts in on a few of these. For starts, I've used Jepps in exams and didn't have a single problem. Unless you haven't taken the time to work out how the AIP and Jepp layouts differ, then you'll be fine. The only thing I did in my IREX was take one standard ERC in just in case they asked any questions on map symbols, which didn't happen. I've also heard of people getting questions about a route that was featured on a single ERC but stretched across two Jepp ERCs due to different coverage areas. Anyone that has serious grief from Jepps in exams hasn't taken the time to get to know their layout.
Things like alternate minima being on the AD chart simply don't worry me in the slightest - it's not the kind of information you'll ever need in a heartbeat in-flight. Again, it just comes down to what you're used to.
Not sure what you mean by sector entry layouts, the DAPs are almost identical to the Jepps - a small diagram showing the sector headings and small sector entry paths. About the only thing DAPs have that I'd really like on Jepp charts is the larger runway diagram on the approach plate, with the arrow indicating the approach direction - very handy for pre-planning circling approaches, and I've found the DAPs better for visualising the approach (including no-circling areas) at a glance.
Not sure about the updates - one thing that stood out to me a while ago (not sure if anybody else noticed) - the entire collection of SID/STAR/approach plates were updated for YSSY over a few months, many due to the 25nm MSA becoming 100' higher to 2700' - half the plates were updated one month, and it took at least 6 months before the rest were - so for around half a year half the SY plates indicated a 2600' MSA, and half indicated 2700'. Seemed kind of sloppy.
Things like alternate minima being on the AD chart simply don't worry me in the slightest - it's not the kind of information you'll ever need in a heartbeat in-flight. Again, it just comes down to what you're used to.
Not sure what you mean by sector entry layouts, the DAPs are almost identical to the Jepps - a small diagram showing the sector headings and small sector entry paths. About the only thing DAPs have that I'd really like on Jepp charts is the larger runway diagram on the approach plate, with the arrow indicating the approach direction - very handy for pre-planning circling approaches, and I've found the DAPs better for visualising the approach (including no-circling areas) at a glance.
Not sure about the updates - one thing that stood out to me a while ago (not sure if anybody else noticed) - the entire collection of SID/STAR/approach plates were updated for YSSY over a few months, many due to the 25nm MSA becoming 100' higher to 2700' - half the plates were updated one month, and it took at least 6 months before the rest were - so for around half a year half the SY plates indicated a 2600' MSA, and half indicated 2700'. Seemed kind of sloppy.
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Give me Jepps any day. Pro's, as I see them, are:
* Consistency - go anywhere in the world and the information is in the same format
* Patented light-weight paper - more bang for the kg
* Confidence: if you've been to the Jepp facility, and seen how they check the info provided by all the various authorities, etc, you know that the required gradients, approach/departure planes, etc, etc meet the regs.
Lots of options too, with Jepp's- you csn get airfield plates with colour pic's -great if you are going somewhere strange, under fuel or weather (or both) pressure.
Lots of updates, yes, but when you read a NOTAM with a procedural change and cross-check against the Jepp's, the changes in the NOTAM change is invariably already incorporated (I've never seen it not be in 20+ years of Jepp use).
* Consistency - go anywhere in the world and the information is in the same format
* Patented light-weight paper - more bang for the kg
* Confidence: if you've been to the Jepp facility, and seen how they check the info provided by all the various authorities, etc, you know that the required gradients, approach/departure planes, etc, etc meet the regs.
Lots of options too, with Jepp's- you csn get airfield plates with colour pic's -great if you are going somewhere strange, under fuel or weather (or both) pressure.
Lots of updates, yes, but when you read a NOTAM with a procedural change and cross-check against the Jepp's, the changes in the NOTAM change is invariably already incorporated (I've never seen it not be in 20+ years of Jepp use).
