Casa Drug screening
Join Date: Sep 2004
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TBT, why the eff is it my problem ????
Why the eff should I now have to change the legal and non-prescription medications that I use to alieviate temporary ailments and which might cause me to return a positive drug-test result.
(dunno about you, but paracetamol for (head)aches takes a long time to get me functional.)
If I have a significant and ongoing medical condition that requires non-trivial medication, then that should get picked up by the DAME at the recurring medicals and CASA will get that data.
CASA has knee-jerked and over-reacted to a perceived problem., but they do need to justify their existance I suppose
Why the eff should I now have to change the legal and non-prescription medications that I use to alieviate temporary ailments and which might cause me to return a positive drug-test result.
(dunno about you, but paracetamol for (head)aches takes a long time to get me functional.)
If I have a significant and ongoing medical condition that requires non-trivial medication, then that should get picked up by the DAME at the recurring medicals and CASA will get that data.
CASA has knee-jerked and over-reacted to a perceived problem., but they do need to justify their existance I suppose
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Will these random tests be done at sign on, or can they be done at an intermediate port. What authorisation do the testers hold to come on board the aircraft to do tests?
One outcome of this will be that crews wont risk a positive test, but will call in sick.
One outcome of this will be that crews wont risk a positive test, but will call in sick.
Join Date: May 2002
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From the casa web site,
CASA will be testing for the presence of alcohol, opiates, cannabis, amphetamine-type stimulants, and cocaine. In the Regulations, these drugs are referred to by their specific chemical names:
* Morphine
* Codeine
* 6-Acetyl morphine
* Amphetamine
* Methyl amphetamine
* Methylenedioxymethylamphetamine
* Methylenedioxyamphetamine
* Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol
* Cocaine
* Benzoylecgonine
* Ecgonine methyl ester
CASA will not be testing for the presence of other drugs, including anti-depressants/anti-anxiety medications, HIV/AIDS or HepC medications, anti-hypertensives, or sildenafil.
CASA will be testing for the presence of alcohol, opiates, cannabis, amphetamine-type stimulants, and cocaine. In the Regulations, these drugs are referred to by their specific chemical names:
* Morphine
* Codeine
* 6-Acetyl morphine
* Amphetamine
* Methyl amphetamine
* Methylenedioxymethylamphetamine
* Methylenedioxyamphetamine
* Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol
* Cocaine
* Benzoylecgonine
* Ecgonine methyl ester
CASA will not be testing for the presence of other drugs, including anti-depressants/anti-anxiety medications, HIV/AIDS or HepC medications, anti-hypertensives, or sildenafil.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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This type of testing has been happening in a number of other industries such as Mining for a long time. Why should our industry be any different? I'm all for the testing. Sooner the better in some cases.
If you need to take strong pain relievers to be able to operate an aircraft, then possibly you may need to think about whether you should be there in the first place. I think nabbing a baggage handler who has had some strong pain relief because they have a sore back is a bit harsh I must admit.
I assume those who believe CASA are exempt from the random testing haven't read Part 99. If a Flying Ops Inspector or Airworthiness Inspector are in a safety sensitive area, then they are liable to be tested. The random testers will have the delegations to enter any building or cockpit in the same way as any flying ops inspector has. It's all in Part 99 for all to see.
Now Coke Drinker I do have my eyes open. I once had my CP give one of our pilot's a packet of Tic Tac's to get the smell of alcohol off his breath before a 5 hour charter flight. I know the reality of drug and alcohol use in aviation.
What I can't wait for is the first "Positive" test. How CASA handles that one will be very interesting.
If you need to take strong pain relievers to be able to operate an aircraft, then possibly you may need to think about whether you should be there in the first place. I think nabbing a baggage handler who has had some strong pain relief because they have a sore back is a bit harsh I must admit.
I assume those who believe CASA are exempt from the random testing haven't read Part 99. If a Flying Ops Inspector or Airworthiness Inspector are in a safety sensitive area, then they are liable to be tested. The random testers will have the delegations to enter any building or cockpit in the same way as any flying ops inspector has. It's all in Part 99 for all to see.
Now Coke Drinker I do have my eyes open. I once had my CP give one of our pilot's a packet of Tic Tac's to get the smell of alcohol off his breath before a 5 hour charter flight. I know the reality of drug and alcohol use in aviation.
What I can't wait for is the first "Positive" test. How CASA handles that one will be very interesting.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Nothing to do with taking drugs to operate an aircraft. Everything to do with taking a perfectly legal and readily available OTC drug at home 24-48 hrs before work.
Basically with the testing you are now on duty at home as well.
Here's a hint either you take nothing and if you don't feel well call in sick. Or if you take something but feel okay - you guessed it - call in sick.
Thats going to be the outcome.
Can you imagine if you get tested at an outport and it comes up positive? Not only are there no crew just hanging around at work but there are no crew available at all. The flight gets cancelled and so does your job.
I love the mining comparisons. Slight problem though - the mine doesn't magically fly to destinations where no other employees are avalable to take over and a mine doesn't have 400 people waiting to depart with some having connecting flights.
Basically with the testing you are now on duty at home as well.
Here's a hint either you take nothing and if you don't feel well call in sick. Or if you take something but feel okay - you guessed it - call in sick.
Thats going to be the outcome.
Can you imagine if you get tested at an outport and it comes up positive? Not only are there no crew just hanging around at work but there are no crew available at all. The flight gets cancelled and so does your job.
I love the mining comparisons. Slight problem though - the mine doesn't magically fly to destinations where no other employees are avalable to take over and a mine doesn't have 400 people waiting to depart with some having connecting flights.
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Fair point about the mining Mr Hat. Still I'm sure there is a similar programme in place for maritime operations isn't there? I could be wrong, but can't they test the ferry captains on Sydney Harbour? Same outcome.
The legal headache drugs are a toughy indeed. Should be interesting how it all pans out.
Good luck everyone. We may need it.
TBT
The legal headache drugs are a toughy indeed. Should be interesting how it all pans out.
Good luck everyone. We may need it.
TBT
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I'm all for the illicit and alcohol related stuff. Fine, by me no problem at all but I can tell you I will be calling in sick rather than running the risk of having a test done at an outport and getting done over a cold tablet. Casa win, the company and my sick leave lose. (GP wins to- medical cerificate required so thats another 50 bucks gone).
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wunwing
My response was to another post.Dont see anything in my post suggesting casa were or were not exempt.Anyway...
The incompetence of casa was the point of my post where there have been half or non qualified people signing as LAME's for quite some time. With virtually zero (that I'm aware of ) active casa surveillance and Qantas' incompetence also as the "outsourced" regulator I dont have a huge amount of confidence in the testing regime.How could we?
The useless calendar is only half serious but real example of resources wasted on spin not spent on substance.Qantas will also have their own testing.Bewdy cant wait for that scheme.
Dont get me wrong I dont want p!ssed or stoned people around or on aircaft.But I do want a fair, reasonable, open, reliable system where positves wont be given by non proscribed drugs. Recourse is quick, no loss of income for false positives, private & non judgemental & non stigmatising help if you do have a problem..
I know someone who goes loopy with paracetamol,legal but dangerous.
If tested he'd pass if he wasnt running down an aisle flapping his arms like wings.
Some folks are not affected by pseudo eph. I am sensitive to it and hate the stuff. Get really twitchy cant sleep or keep still.
I do hope all turns out well and our concerns are unfounded but I can well understand where these people concerns lie.
The incompetence of casa was the point of my post where there have been half or non qualified people signing as LAME's for quite some time. With virtually zero (that I'm aware of ) active casa surveillance and Qantas' incompetence also as the "outsourced" regulator I dont have a huge amount of confidence in the testing regime.How could we?
The useless calendar is only half serious but real example of resources wasted on spin not spent on substance.Qantas will also have their own testing.Bewdy cant wait for that scheme.
Dont get me wrong I dont want p!ssed or stoned people around or on aircaft.But I do want a fair, reasonable, open, reliable system where positves wont be given by non proscribed drugs. Recourse is quick, no loss of income for false positives, private & non judgemental & non stigmatising help if you do have a problem..
I know someone who goes loopy with paracetamol,legal but dangerous.
If tested he'd pass if he wasnt running down an aisle flapping his arms like wings.
Some folks are not affected by pseudo eph. I am sensitive to it and hate the stuff. Get really twitchy cant sleep or keep still.
I do hope all turns out well and our concerns are unfounded but I can well understand where these people concerns lie.
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Time Bomb Ted, good on ya, so now CASA and YOU are telling me what I can and can't take for a headache, for fcuks sake grow up!
I don't rush off for a panadeine every time I have a headache, mostly a good drink of water is a big help, but not everybody's system works the same, only you and CASA could come up with such simplistic drivel. I should be able to take the most efficacious LEGAL, over the counter medications for flu, cold, headache, toothache, in LEGAL dosages without doo-gooders like the Air Nazis and yourself saying pious little snippets like "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" and "just take an aspirin, or better yet just think of a happy place" next time I have migraine, usually caused by having to deal with some simple minded jobsworth like yourself.
Toughen up your self and take a good hard look at this can of worms we have been handed.
We will have to deal with it an a regular basis, and it's already costing my company time, effort and money to address an issue that has never been in "issue" so far. All when we are trying to stretch every dollar for REAL safety issues.
Me and so many others are NOT supporting the notion that it's rafferty's rules regarding AOD, or that a few beers at lunchtime is OK. BUT, if we are going to have a DAMPS program (is that like a PIN number?) that works it will have to be a lot better than this, and if you place your faith CASA to do the right thing, god help the industry.
HD
I don't rush off for a panadeine every time I have a headache, mostly a good drink of water is a big help, but not everybody's system works the same, only you and CASA could come up with such simplistic drivel. I should be able to take the most efficacious LEGAL, over the counter medications for flu, cold, headache, toothache, in LEGAL dosages without doo-gooders like the Air Nazis and yourself saying pious little snippets like "if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" and "just take an aspirin, or better yet just think of a happy place" next time I have migraine, usually caused by having to deal with some simple minded jobsworth like yourself.
Toughen up your self and take a good hard look at this can of worms we have been handed.
We will have to deal with it an a regular basis, and it's already costing my company time, effort and money to address an issue that has never been in "issue" so far. All when we are trying to stretch every dollar for REAL safety issues.
Me and so many others are NOT supporting the notion that it's rafferty's rules regarding AOD, or that a few beers at lunchtime is OK. BUT, if we are going to have a DAMPS program (is that like a PIN number?) that works it will have to be a lot better than this, and if you place your faith CASA to do the right thing, god help the industry.
HD
What's the solution?
The solution is that you can register with your damp - or another approved third party (not CASA) - the fact that you are on a prescription or other medication.
If you are then ramp checked and if you show positive, then the tester calls the organisation at your request to cross check and you can go back to work.
The sample is still further tested in the lab and if it is found to be not, say whooping cough prophylactic antibiotics (clarithcamyacin) and it's really cocaine then the full weight of the law comes down on you.
Let's stop the name calling to each other and demand a solution.
If you are then ramp checked and if you show positive, then the tester calls the organisation at your request to cross check and you can go back to work.
The sample is still further tested in the lab and if it is found to be not, say whooping cough prophylactic antibiotics (clarithcamyacin) and it's really cocaine then the full weight of the law comes down on you.
Let's stop the name calling to each other and demand a solution.
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Having failed a drug test once i dont know what all the fuss is about.
A group of us were given the test and 5 failed.
3 of us for smoking the happy weed and the other 2 for opiates.
I laughed like hell cause i dont smoke the stuff ,so we were all sent home on full pay until lab results came back from Perth.If the results were positive then you didnt get paid and couldnt go back to work until tested clear.
Myself and another had clear results--the machine had thrown a wobbly.
One proved positive and was given the door as it was his 3rd offence.
Of the opiate crew ,one was on medication and the other had had a poppy seed roll.It was then the discretion of the company if they could go back to work before the lab results came back.
In those days we had a 3 strike clause but now its 2.If they have cause to think you look a bit odd--booze or drugs ,or have an accident and test positive it 2 clauses at once and your out.
They ask before what medication your on.
Same with coming to work pissed.Its zero tollerance but as certain things contain alcohol they allow that up to .02 ,and if on .03 get tested an hour later,or less.
I dont know how the swab tests work,but ive heard if ya been on the hooch in the last 14 hours it shows up.The piss test shows up from days to weeks later.
A group of us were given the test and 5 failed.
3 of us for smoking the happy weed and the other 2 for opiates.
I laughed like hell cause i dont smoke the stuff ,so we were all sent home on full pay until lab results came back from Perth.If the results were positive then you didnt get paid and couldnt go back to work until tested clear.
Myself and another had clear results--the machine had thrown a wobbly.
One proved positive and was given the door as it was his 3rd offence.
Of the opiate crew ,one was on medication and the other had had a poppy seed roll.It was then the discretion of the company if they could go back to work before the lab results came back.
In those days we had a 3 strike clause but now its 2.If they have cause to think you look a bit odd--booze or drugs ,or have an accident and test positive it 2 clauses at once and your out.
They ask before what medication your on.
Same with coming to work pissed.Its zero tollerance but as certain things contain alcohol they allow that up to .02 ,and if on .03 get tested an hour later,or less.
I dont know how the swab tests work,but ive heard if ya been on the hooch in the last 14 hours it shows up.The piss test shows up from days to weeks later.
Bottums Up
One can easily envisage the news paper headlines on the next day, say the NT News for example.
Drugie Pilot Causes Chaos!
Capt Bloggs yesterday caused chaos as he upset the travel plans of thousands of passengers when he tested positive for a banned substance, in a random test conducted on behalf of the CASA.
CASA spokesman Ima Wanka, said that CASA was determined to ensure the safety of the travelling public by weeding out aviators who took drugs.
An Airline spokesman said they were doing their best to clear the backlog and regretted any inconvenience to passengers travel plans.
Now the questions that arise are:
Once vilified for being a drug addict, will Capt Bloggs' apology be given the same notoriety? Will the travelling public even find the ensuing apology?
Mud sticks, and this system will I fear, tar one as guilty before being proven innocent, regardless of whether one has "anything to worry about, or not", perhaps and hopefully not in the eyes of our employers but almost certainly with the travelling public.
Drugie Pilot Causes Chaos!
Capt Bloggs yesterday caused chaos as he upset the travel plans of thousands of passengers when he tested positive for a banned substance, in a random test conducted on behalf of the CASA.
CASA spokesman Ima Wanka, said that CASA was determined to ensure the safety of the travelling public by weeding out aviators who took drugs.
An Airline spokesman said they were doing their best to clear the backlog and regretted any inconvenience to passengers travel plans.
Now the questions that arise are:
Once vilified for being a drug addict, will Capt Bloggs' apology be given the same notoriety? Will the travelling public even find the ensuing apology?
Mud sticks, and this system will I fear, tar one as guilty before being proven innocent, regardless of whether one has "anything to worry about, or not", perhaps and hopefully not in the eyes of our employers but almost certainly with the travelling public.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Fight fire with fire.
Capt Claret, a good lawyer/barrister will rub his /her hands together on this stuff. CASA/Company/screeners would have to be oh so careful. I'd start the test by taking a few notes (time, date, id badge number and name) and then i'd pop straight down to the doctor to get a blood test.
Its actually got me thinking that I should find out where is the quickest place to get a blood test in each port. I know there is a doctor n site in MEL but it could get difficult at some outports. Call me paranoid but let me tell you if one does come back positive and you can't fly you might find your heart rate increase a little.
What i can't work out is how they reckon this is not going to cause a delay.
Its actually got me thinking that I should find out where is the quickest place to get a blood test in each port. I know there is a doctor n site in MEL but it could get difficult at some outports. Call me paranoid but let me tell you if one does come back positive and you can't fly you might find your heart rate increase a little.
What i can't work out is how they reckon this is not going to cause a delay.
Bottums Up
Agreed Mr Hat.
A few years ago, when Victoria first introduced random drug testing for road drivers, the first guy pinged had his mug shown on National TV news around the country. There was nowhere near as much publicity when the test proved to be a false positive.
A few years ago, when Victoria first introduced random drug testing for road drivers, the first guy pinged had his mug shown on National TV news around the country. There was nowhere near as much publicity when the test proved to be a false positive.
It seems that the biggest headache with all of this, is that codeine is on the banned substances list.
Why?
Yes, I am aware that codeine can be extracted from opium - but it is not opium, it is codeine.
What are the adverse reactions people experience when taking codeine? Hrmm, reduced headaches, (which is good for flying), reduced diarrohea (also good in an aircraft), reduced sexual drive (good while actually flying), and a few other poor options such as potentially vomiting, or getting a skin rash.
How is this drug negatively affecting the safety of air navigation??
Get codeine off the list, and you'll remove almost every concern people have about legitimate medication on this abomination of an initiative.
As an employee, I highly recommend contacting your employer each and every time you need to take a codeine tablet, and getting them to state, in writing, that they agree to you taking codeine, and that you will in no way be at risk of losing your job, or being stood down with no pay, if you are tested and found to be taking codeine - or that they agree that you shall have the next 48 hours off work, also with no risk of losing your job or suffering financial penalty.
Why?
Yes, I am aware that codeine can be extracted from opium - but it is not opium, it is codeine.
What are the adverse reactions people experience when taking codeine? Hrmm, reduced headaches, (which is good for flying), reduced diarrohea (also good in an aircraft), reduced sexual drive (good while actually flying), and a few other poor options such as potentially vomiting, or getting a skin rash.
How is this drug negatively affecting the safety of air navigation??
Get codeine off the list, and you'll remove almost every concern people have about legitimate medication on this abomination of an initiative.
As an employee, I highly recommend contacting your employer each and every time you need to take a codeine tablet, and getting them to state, in writing, that they agree to you taking codeine, and that you will in no way be at risk of losing your job, or being stood down with no pay, if you are tested and found to be taking codeine - or that they agree that you shall have the next 48 hours off work, also with no risk of losing your job or suffering financial penalty.