Spitfire 'Crash' at Masterton
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Spitfire 'Crash' at Masterton
the nz herald is reporting a Spitfire 'crash' at Masterton. WE all know the media have many of their own definitions of the word crash, so just wondering if anyone has any news.
"A Spitfire aircraft crashed at the Masterton Aerodrome in the Wairarapa today.
The aircraft crashed just after 3pm, said a fire communications spokesman.
The pilot was not injured in the crash.
The cause of the crash was not known.
The World War 2 aircraft was due to fly in the Wings Over Wairarapa show this weekend.
- NZPA"
"A Spitfire aircraft crashed at the Masterton Aerodrome in the Wairarapa today.
The aircraft crashed just after 3pm, said a fire communications spokesman.
The pilot was not injured in the crash.
The cause of the crash was not known.
The World War 2 aircraft was due to fly in the Wings Over Wairarapa show this weekend.
- NZPA"
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3 News > National > Story > Spitfire crashes in test flight before Wairarapa air show
The picture doesn't look good for the a/c
The picture doesn't look good for the a/c
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Spitfire incident
Whatever happened, it didn't f#$%ing crash!
http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webconte...pg/spit280.jpg
Hopefully the engine is undamaged, can't tell from the picture if it landed on grass or the harder stuff.....
I hope the pilot got to phone his family before the media screamed "Spitfire crashes".
http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webconte...pg/spit280.jpg
Hopefully the engine is undamaged, can't tell from the picture if it landed on grass or the harder stuff.....
I hope the pilot got to phone his family before the media screamed "Spitfire crashes".
Grandpa Aerotart
Looks like a gear collapse...more likely than a gear up landing because the gear is actually visible as opposed to tucked up in its wells so I doubt he just forgot it...wooden prop so engine unlikely to have been shock loaded. She'll be back in the air in no time.
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Doesn't look like it will make the wings over wairarapa show - which is a real shame as it won't be the same with a real spitfire ace flying in the jumpseat....
More on stuff: WWII fighter plane crash lands - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz
More on stuff: WWII fighter plane crash lands - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz
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I dont like to hijack your thread but found the timing if this kind of strange,two different threads at the same time with one common link...both have been affected by the business of one individual.
Yours in the early part of this decade,and across this side of the ocean at present.
Looks as though masterton is alive and thriving though.
See the thread CoastJet RIP,this operator was the same operator that had Wairarapa Air we beleive, Wairarapa News 17 January 2004
Glad all are safe.
Yours in the early part of this decade,and across this side of the ocean at present.
Looks as though masterton is alive and thriving though.
See the thread CoastJet RIP,this operator was the same operator that had Wairarapa Air we beleive, Wairarapa News 17 January 2004
Glad all are safe.
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Looks like a gear collapse...more likely than a gear up landing because the gear is actually visible as opposed to tucked up in its wells so I doubt he just forgot it...
Last edited by Fark'n'ell; 16th Jan 2009 at 06:12.
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Not sure what happened here, but in general terms... personally I'm pretty tired of these marvellous and historic aircraft being trashed by their rich, but often inexperienced, owners. Look at the record of warbird crashes over the last 20 years or so, and most are pilot error (pilot stupidity in some cases).
Admittedly, most of the really stupid stuff happens in Europe (where the REALLY rich people live), but quite a few NZ incidents are down to nothing more than inexperience/lack of skill.
Maybe we'll all be a little less tolerant when the supply of flyable warbirds dwindles sufficiently...
Admittedly, most of the really stupid stuff happens in Europe (where the REALLY rich people live), but quite a few NZ incidents are down to nothing more than inexperience/lack of skill.
Maybe we'll all be a little less tolerant when the supply of flyable warbirds dwindles sufficiently...
Grandpa Aerotart
I think you would find that if it wasn't for 'the really rich people' the numbers of flyable warbirds would be a lot lower than it is...particularly the fighters.
The accident rates on these aircraft are a LOT lower than they were before these aircraft became the valuable collectors items they currently are. The accident rates on WW2 era piston fighters was truly galling back in the 60s-early 80s period.
huges500boy if it was a ground loop there would be significant wing tip damage and one undercarriage leg would likely be under the belly as opposed to in the vicinity of its wheel well. I have seen no evidence to that effect.
Even if that had happened who the **** are YOU to comment you arrogant dill!
The accident rates on these aircraft are a LOT lower than they were before these aircraft became the valuable collectors items they currently are. The accident rates on WW2 era piston fighters was truly galling back in the 60s-early 80s period.
huges500boy if it was a ground loop there would be significant wing tip damage and one undercarriage leg would likely be under the belly as opposed to in the vicinity of its wheel well. I have seen no evidence to that effect.
Even if that had happened who the **** are YOU to comment you arrogant dill!
Remoak, as you probably know already, many of these old aircraft are rebuilt by the rich guys to start with. I guess it's a matter of it being better to have loved and lost than having never loved at all.
It's not just inexperience either, I think the biggest part of it is not being current. It doesn't really matter how good your natural skills are, if you spend too much time off the horse it's no surprise if the reactions aren't there when the horse bucks. Right, that's one too many bad metaphors.
There's that old worn out saying about taildraggers isn't there?
The above post is not intended as a comment on the cause of this incident.
It's not just inexperience either, I think the biggest part of it is not being current. It doesn't really matter how good your natural skills are, if you spend too much time off the horse it's no surprise if the reactions aren't there when the horse bucks. Right, that's one too many bad metaphors.
There's that old worn out saying about taildraggers isn't there?
The above post is not intended as a comment on the cause of this incident.
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Certainly a few points floating around. Just as an aside, the pilot is a former NZ champion aerobatic (unlimited) flying a tail wheel Giles 202 and now onto an MX2 if I am correct.
I believe that is his passion and he dedicates a fair amount of time and money to it. Good on him. No accident report yet obviously, but it is my suspicion that he has more than adequate "stick and rudder" skills to fly tail wheel aircraft (for those who wish to critque and yes accidents can happen to anyone but.....).
It will be a shame to have such a lovely aircraft out of action for an extended time, a real loss. I have heard that the damage does extend to more than just cosmetic but perhaps someone can add to that?
I believe that is his passion and he dedicates a fair amount of time and money to it. Good on him. No accident report yet obviously, but it is my suspicion that he has more than adequate "stick and rudder" skills to fly tail wheel aircraft (for those who wish to critque and yes accidents can happen to anyone but.....).
It will be a shame to have such a lovely aircraft out of action for an extended time, a real loss. I have heard that the damage does extend to more than just cosmetic but perhaps someone can add to that?
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Don't criticise the successful. If they paid for it they can break it if they want..thats capitalism
These aircraft, as well as being rich boys toys, are part of our collective heritage. The owners may legally be able to trash their toys if they want (or if they simply can't help themselves), but that is only because the law offers no protection. Now, if you owned an old house or building that was designated as a "heritage" site, you wouldn't be allowed to do ANYTHING to it - change the plumbing, put in a new power point, whatever - without written approval from the appropriate authority (the Heritage Trust in the UK).
This has nothing to do with capitalism, it's actually about protecting our heritage so that our kids and grand-kids can see these aircraft too.
Over the years I have watched several warbirds crash at European airshows, in many cases at the hands of pilots who only seemed to have a passing knowledge of aerobatics and display flying.
Sure, the rich might get them flying again, but that is pretty pointless if they all end up wrecked. Better to have loved and lost...? No. Not really. Not for the rest of us, at any rate.
And yes, the rate of hull loss is less these days - but then, there are lot less of these aircraft around now, and they are increasingly expensive to restore. The losses of those years (60's-80's) WILL come back to haunt us.
What I am talking about is the moral responsibility of those who own these aircraft, to preserve them for the nations that originally flew them.
Personally, I think it is a gross insult to the memory of the pilots who lost their lives fighting wars in these aircraft, to allow them to be damaged or destroyed due to the inexperience or foolishness of their owners.
And on that topic, I have met a few of these people with lots of money and classic aviation toys, and most of them were pretty ordinary pilots, low hours, sometimes only a PPL - but enough money to buy the expertise they need. Money DOES talk, and I'm convinced it talked a bit too persuasively in some cases.
But hey, what do I know. Let's go with mattyj's plan. Buy 'em, fly 'em, crash 'em, move on to the next toy. Nobody will care until there are no more airworthy (or potentially airworthy) airframes left in the world. Some types will run out before others - anyone know when we will another airworthy Blenheim take to the skies?
I'm just glad I got to fly a few of these aircraft before they all disappear...
Last edited by remoak; 17th Jan 2009 at 10:14. Reason: missed a bit
There's some pretty passionate responses here, but why is most people against the flying of warbirds in general?
The kids love seeing them fly, as does all aviation enthusiasts, and the majority of warbird pilots are highly experienced and responsible pilots. Who cares if they are 'only' PPL holders - that in no way makes them any less qualified to fly and display these aircraft saflet. Holding a CPL or ATPL does not in itself make the pilot a better aerobatic, display or warbird pilot. In fact, many of the best pilots that I have flown and worked with have only ever held PPL's. Many CPL's have never even flown a tailwheel aircraft, nor even done a wingover, nor practised recovery from steep turn stalls, nor incipient spins. But I digress.
The owner of this aircraft is by far one of the best pilots that I have flown with, and I'm sure that his interests include keeping these aircraft flying for both his own enjoyment, and the enjoyment of others.
The kids love seeing them fly, as does all aviation enthusiasts, and the majority of warbird pilots are highly experienced and responsible pilots. Who cares if they are 'only' PPL holders - that in no way makes them any less qualified to fly and display these aircraft saflet. Holding a CPL or ATPL does not in itself make the pilot a better aerobatic, display or warbird pilot. In fact, many of the best pilots that I have flown and worked with have only ever held PPL's. Many CPL's have never even flown a tailwheel aircraft, nor even done a wingover, nor practised recovery from steep turn stalls, nor incipient spins. But I digress.
The owner of this aircraft is by far one of the best pilots that I have flown with, and I'm sure that his interests include keeping these aircraft flying for both his own enjoyment, and the enjoyment of others.
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A couple of the replies here intrigue me. REMOAK you say you are sick of rich boys restoring these toys then destroying them implying with no regard. What about a list of examples. "facts, nothing but the facts" where this has happened in Aussie or Nzud..
Surely you must realise that without these entrepreneurial Aviation enthusiasts these treasures would never see the light of day let alone fly again. They would be destined to rot in old feed sheds and the like as do many more now, I know of quite a few.
Have a look and the Pilot experience of Aircraft (restored) flown from Col Pays collection over time,Narromine,Temora,HARS, Judy Pays aircraft,The Lowey's. Not 100 hr.PPL's, and that's not to say some couldn't.
To debunk your "rich man " theory, remember the Boomarang, the Wirriway Projects, and one going on now with the Catalina, recovery and restorations being done by ordinary boys and girls of modest incomes, and some no income possibly on pensions but with a heap of experience to offer so all of us can see these gems.
You'll find these DH 82/84/86 chippies etc owner pilots are festidiuos and would hate to see their pride and joy rolled up into a ball.
I have had the pleasure to have some old aircraft in my logbook but not combat aircraft, but I enjoyed every breathing second I spent in them and the last thing on my mind, I can assure you, was to see those aircraft laying in a hangar in bits.
You'll find the people who restore these aircraft have exactly the same passion and enthusiasm as you and I, and I'm sure pretty well everyone on this site.
I am glad now though that we have starter motors. The Dragon's port motor used to have a mind of it's own.
I thank these people for their dedication to preserving these treasures for us all to see.
Finishing on the soapbox on the t/wheel experience, I've got the odd hour and hell yea, I've had scenic tours on landing, come to think of it I've had scenic tours on t/off, but hea sure all of us aren't perfect.
Frothy
Surely you must realise that without these entrepreneurial Aviation enthusiasts these treasures would never see the light of day let alone fly again. They would be destined to rot in old feed sheds and the like as do many more now, I know of quite a few.
Have a look and the Pilot experience of Aircraft (restored) flown from Col Pays collection over time,Narromine,Temora,HARS, Judy Pays aircraft,The Lowey's. Not 100 hr.PPL's, and that's not to say some couldn't.
To debunk your "rich man " theory, remember the Boomarang, the Wirriway Projects, and one going on now with the Catalina, recovery and restorations being done by ordinary boys and girls of modest incomes, and some no income possibly on pensions but with a heap of experience to offer so all of us can see these gems.
You'll find these DH 82/84/86 chippies etc owner pilots are festidiuos and would hate to see their pride and joy rolled up into a ball.
I have had the pleasure to have some old aircraft in my logbook but not combat aircraft, but I enjoyed every breathing second I spent in them and the last thing on my mind, I can assure you, was to see those aircraft laying in a hangar in bits.
You'll find the people who restore these aircraft have exactly the same passion and enthusiasm as you and I, and I'm sure pretty well everyone on this site.
I am glad now though that we have starter motors. The Dragon's port motor used to have a mind of it's own.
I thank these people for their dedication to preserving these treasures for us all to see.
Finishing on the soapbox on the t/wheel experience, I've got the odd hour and hell yea, I've had scenic tours on landing, come to think of it I've had scenic tours on t/off, but hea sure all of us aren't perfect.
Frothy
The pilot in question may well be a "rich bloke" but he's hardly an inexperienced pilot, and although I've never met him personally from what I gather he's not exactly the "break one, move on to the next" type of person either.
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Important for some readers to realise (as stated at the beginning) that I wasn't commenting on the pilot of the latest Spitfire incident.
frothy
I'm not going to spend my Sunday compiling a list for you, do your own research. Some accidents that spring to mind would include the Harvard that crashed during a display during the '90s (that was a NZ Warbirds display), the Spitfire that ran out of fuel (FFS!!), then the same guy (Tim Wallis) later REALLY crashed the same Spit. He admitted he screwed up both times...
Feature: Wanaka Warbird by Bruce Ansley | New Zealand Listener
You will note that that both incidents were caused by fundamental, beginners errors - fuel management in one case, pushing the wrong rudder pedal on T/O in the other.
And then there was the Sea Fury that ended up wearing the hangar at PP, I seem to recall a Corsair that came to grief, and any number of Harvards that passed into the hands of people not quite up to the task of flying them.
I'm sure there are lots of others, but as I said, I'm not spending my day researching them!
I have no knowledge of the Aussie warbird scene so no comment to make there.
Also important to point out that I have no problem with rich boys owning and flying these aircraft, but I do have an issue with said rich boys not treating their toys with the respect they deserve, and that includes adequate training and currency, and not trying stuff that is beyond them. Three of the accidents I witnessed in Europe were gross mishandling - attempting loops that would have required 200-300 feet more altitude than was available, with the inevitable result (a Spit, an Aircobra and a P38). Not enough energy or airspeed... three destroyed aircraft, three dead pilots...
frothy
I'm not going to spend my Sunday compiling a list for you, do your own research. Some accidents that spring to mind would include the Harvard that crashed during a display during the '90s (that was a NZ Warbirds display), the Spitfire that ran out of fuel (FFS!!), then the same guy (Tim Wallis) later REALLY crashed the same Spit. He admitted he screwed up both times...
With a pilot’s unemotional eye for the technical, Wallis tells how he crashed. He made a mistake with the rudder. “I made a complete stuff-up.”The old fighter hurtled along the runway, took off, veered to the right and hit the ground with enormous speed and force.
You will note that that both incidents were caused by fundamental, beginners errors - fuel management in one case, pushing the wrong rudder pedal on T/O in the other.
And then there was the Sea Fury that ended up wearing the hangar at PP, I seem to recall a Corsair that came to grief, and any number of Harvards that passed into the hands of people not quite up to the task of flying them.
I'm sure there are lots of others, but as I said, I'm not spending my day researching them!
I have no knowledge of the Aussie warbird scene so no comment to make there.
Also important to point out that I have no problem with rich boys owning and flying these aircraft, but I do have an issue with said rich boys not treating their toys with the respect they deserve, and that includes adequate training and currency, and not trying stuff that is beyond them. Three of the accidents I witnessed in Europe were gross mishandling - attempting loops that would have required 200-300 feet more altitude than was available, with the inevitable result (a Spit, an Aircobra and a P38). Not enough energy or airspeed... three destroyed aircraft, three dead pilots...