Spitfire 'Crash' at Masterton
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Hughes Point, where life is great! Was also resident on page 13, but now I'm lost in Cyberspace....
Age: 59
Posts: 3,485
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
mind you I have no idea what im talking about, most of my flying lately is in a nose dragger
I have flown with DB before, and I would still fly with him again tomorrow.
I've never flown a Spitfire, and I'm pretty sure that DB can do so better than 99% of us.
Glad to hear that he's come out of this unscathed.
I've never flown a Spitfire, and I'm pretty sure that DB can do so better than 99% of us.
Glad to hear that he's come out of this unscathed.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For someone with that much tail wheel time he really f#$Ked it up eh... Surely it would have cost less to do another circuit and try again.
Was it the first touch down that damaged the u/c or was it the subsequent out of control landing that resulted in the issue...
Nothing wrong with going round for another go. Glad he aint flying me around if he cant recognise something as simple as a messed up landing going bad.
When he is in the air doing what he does... very impressive.
Was it the first touch down that damaged the u/c or was it the subsequent out of control landing that resulted in the issue...
Nothing wrong with going round for another go. Glad he aint flying me around if he cant recognise something as simple as a messed up landing going bad.
When he is in the air doing what he does... very impressive.
Who actually saw it happen, and who knows what was actually happening in the cockpit at the time? 
You are all too quick to condemn.
You are all too quick to condemn.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Aus, or USA, or UK or EU, or possibly somehwere in Asia.
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FFS
Who cares if he crashed his plane (again)?
ITS HIS PLANE HE CAN CRASH IT WHENEVER HE WANTS
He paid for it, doesn't matter if it was cross wind down wind, wind shear, flatulance poor eyesight, stupidity, mechanical failure, long grass, pothole, lack of attention, distraction or finger trouble. Very bad luck and a big pile of squids to fix, but it is not up to this forum to pass judgement on him OR the warbird movement in general (except for remoak of course, cos he has obviously flown all the spitfires and knows every trick in the taildragger book). Mind you if there was someone in the back seat and they know what ACTUALLY HAPPENED, then by all means this is a good spot to post that info. but to all those who weren't actually in the plane at the time STFU about who's fault etc... and give us real info.
I have not flown a 'real' spitfire, I wish i had and I still think there is a remote chance, but I haven't. I have flown lots of planes and many big powerful taildraggers, but alas no spit. I will hold my toungue about whether this guy can or can't fly a spitfire, at least he has one (for the time being) to fly. good on him. Without these guys (rich guys) we would not see many of these types of aircraft flying at all, much less be able to help them fly them from time to time.
I know complete nobbers, ex-fast jet jockeys, now airline pilots, and others who I wouldn't let fly heavy metal IF IT WAS MINE, but it is not, it is theirs, so i bite my tongue and wait for my next opportunity to scab a zoom in whatever needs to go where, for i know that owning one of these bits of kit is out of my league.
Go to Oshkosh it you want to see extremes of this syndrome, even in Pomgolia they have wreaked havok on the reserves of 'rare' and 'historic' aircraft over the last decade or so, never mind , there are more of these WWII aircraft flying today than ever, thanks to CNC machining and the ability to jack up a data plate and replace all other components. all it takes is giga bucks, or in Muzza's case, kilo bucks and a level of dedication and enthusiasm that is truely astounding. used to spray his rice many years ago when he was a rice farmer with a shed full of old aeroplane junk.
Any way they are only inanimate objects, artifacts fashioned by human hands. i would rather have saved the life of one humen, like Fred Hollows for instance, than a whole squadron of mk XII spitfires (my favourite mark)
I would rather see children not starving to death in squalor and filth, than squillions spent restoring a B29 in order to celebrate the bombing of hiroshima FFS
Don't get me wrong, I love seeing those dream planes of my youth fly these days, the sound of these engines and the sheer beauty and might of some of them especially, but they are only bits of tin and they will all be gone in a thousand years or so, and no-one will care, they will have their own problems. enjoy these things now, while you have the opportunity. if people want to spend their lives and wealth in this pastime good on them, I benefit also.
Get your priorities right remoak, and pull your head in, you are not the world expert on every bleeding thing.
HD
PS
Finally got to see Bull Creek musem recently, great collection, but there is an opportunity for a very (very) rich person to spend a big pile of monies getting a genwine lancaster back in the air except that it is too rare to be restored to flying, better to let it rust slowly away, as chimbu said earlier, they will dissolve slowly but surely all by itself due to the nature of its construction and service life expectancy. (I think a spitfire was 150 hrs in service life)
Who cares if he crashed his plane (again)?
ITS HIS PLANE HE CAN CRASH IT WHENEVER HE WANTS
He paid for it, doesn't matter if it was cross wind down wind, wind shear, flatulance poor eyesight, stupidity, mechanical failure, long grass, pothole, lack of attention, distraction or finger trouble. Very bad luck and a big pile of squids to fix, but it is not up to this forum to pass judgement on him OR the warbird movement in general (except for remoak of course, cos he has obviously flown all the spitfires and knows every trick in the taildragger book). Mind you if there was someone in the back seat and they know what ACTUALLY HAPPENED, then by all means this is a good spot to post that info. but to all those who weren't actually in the plane at the time STFU about who's fault etc... and give us real info.
I have not flown a 'real' spitfire, I wish i had and I still think there is a remote chance, but I haven't. I have flown lots of planes and many big powerful taildraggers, but alas no spit. I will hold my toungue about whether this guy can or can't fly a spitfire, at least he has one (for the time being) to fly. good on him. Without these guys (rich guys) we would not see many of these types of aircraft flying at all, much less be able to help them fly them from time to time.
I know complete nobbers, ex-fast jet jockeys, now airline pilots, and others who I wouldn't let fly heavy metal IF IT WAS MINE, but it is not, it is theirs, so i bite my tongue and wait for my next opportunity to scab a zoom in whatever needs to go where, for i know that owning one of these bits of kit is out of my league.
Go to Oshkosh it you want to see extremes of this syndrome, even in Pomgolia they have wreaked havok on the reserves of 'rare' and 'historic' aircraft over the last decade or so, never mind , there are more of these WWII aircraft flying today than ever, thanks to CNC machining and the ability to jack up a data plate and replace all other components. all it takes is giga bucks, or in Muzza's case, kilo bucks and a level of dedication and enthusiasm that is truely astounding. used to spray his rice many years ago when he was a rice farmer with a shed full of old aeroplane junk.
Any way they are only inanimate objects, artifacts fashioned by human hands. i would rather have saved the life of one humen, like Fred Hollows for instance, than a whole squadron of mk XII spitfires (my favourite mark)
I would rather see children not starving to death in squalor and filth, than squillions spent restoring a B29 in order to celebrate the bombing of hiroshima FFS
Don't get me wrong, I love seeing those dream planes of my youth fly these days, the sound of these engines and the sheer beauty and might of some of them especially, but they are only bits of tin and they will all be gone in a thousand years or so, and no-one will care, they will have their own problems. enjoy these things now, while you have the opportunity. if people want to spend their lives and wealth in this pastime good on them, I benefit also.
Get your priorities right remoak, and pull your head in, you are not the world expert on every bleeding thing.
HD
PS
Finally got to see Bull Creek musem recently, great collection, but there is an opportunity for a very (very) rich person to spend a big pile of monies getting a genwine lancaster back in the air except that it is too rare to be restored to flying, better to let it rust slowly away, as chimbu said earlier, they will dissolve slowly but surely all by itself due to the nature of its construction and service life expectancy. (I think a spitfire was 150 hrs in service life)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Geez feel better now that you've got that off your chest, do you HarleyD?
My priority is seeing these aircraft kept safe from rich "nobbers" as you call them, who have egos ten times larger than their experience levels, and who think that money=skill.
I may not be an expert on everything, but I know crappy flying when I see it. This is the second time for this guy. During the war, young fellas with 15 hours solo were climbing into Spits, and they didn't all immediately crash...
Thankfully, there are still rich people who get that they aren't aces and don't try, but instead preserve aircraft for future generations - making sure that the legacy of the war survives. Peter Jackson springs to mind in that regard.
Going with your logic, none of these aircraft would survive very long, which may not matter at all to you, but would be a tragedy for those who have not yet seen a Spitfire fly, and an insult to those who lost their lives in them fighting for our freedom.
Get your priorities right remoak, and pull your head in, you are not the world expert on every bleeding thing.
I may not be an expert on everything, but I know crappy flying when I see it. This is the second time for this guy. During the war, young fellas with 15 hours solo were climbing into Spits, and they didn't all immediately crash...
Thankfully, there are still rich people who get that they aren't aces and don't try, but instead preserve aircraft for future generations - making sure that the legacy of the war survives. Peter Jackson springs to mind in that regard.
Going with your logic, none of these aircraft would survive very long, which may not matter at all to you, but would be a tragedy for those who have not yet seen a Spitfire fly, and an insult to those who lost their lives in them fighting for our freedom.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Live in Taupiri, Waikato, work in the big smoke, New Zealand
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So REMOAK...do tell us as you seem to know it all...back up some of your allegations!
How much experience does this guy have?
How many hours has he flown in the Spit in the last few weeks and in total?
What was his Spitfire training, and who did his type rating?
If you don't know these answers (as others in this forum do!) then (as has been mentioned previously) pull your "green with envy" head in.
How much experience does this guy have?
How many hours has he flown in the Spit in the last few weeks and in total?
What was his Spitfire training, and who did his type rating?
If you don't know these answers (as others in this forum do!) then (as has been mentioned previously) pull your "green with envy" head in.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh grow up Slackie, I haven't made any allegations other than that the guy screwed up the landing, which is self-evidently true. None of the questions you ask are in the slightest bit relevant, because at the end of the day, in ANY aircraft, if you find yourself in a bad situation during landing, you GO AROUND and try again.
The thing that stops you going around is generally either ego or ignorance, take your pick.
The fact that this guy has now done this twice in a year is very revealing.
As it happens, I have spent a short time in a two-seater in the UK (not long before the new owner flew it into trees on approach), and I can tell you that there are plenty of taildraggers more demanding than a Spitfire. That is both from what the pilot told me, and what I observed.
I just love the way you automatically try to paint anyone who dares to call a spade a spade, envious. But then that is pretty much typical of this section of PPRuNe...
The thing that stops you going around is generally either ego or ignorance, take your pick.
The fact that this guy has now done this twice in a year is very revealing.
As it happens, I have spent a short time in a two-seater in the UK (not long before the new owner flew it into trees on approach), and I can tell you that there are plenty of taildraggers more demanding than a Spitfire. That is both from what the pilot told me, and what I observed.
I just love the way you automatically try to paint anyone who dares to call a spade a spade, envious. But then that is pretty much typical of this section of PPRuNe...
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Live in Taupiri, Waikato, work in the big smoke, New Zealand
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No allegations?
How do you know there weren't other issues or malfunctions? Man, you should offer your services as a "remote" investigator! Who needs to actually be there or discover the actual facts when you can make baseless, uninformed, biased, and anonomous findings from afar!
The fact is - you can't.
Sure, it may have been completely pilot error, but at least let some who actually knows the facts make that finding.
There are few enough of these aircraft left in the world, without these clowns bending them...
Quote:
Do any of you "experts" know the cause of this accident?
I do, I do, pick me...
Do any of you "experts" know the cause of this accident?
I do, I do, pick me...
...and the wx was benign.
It was a hard landing, so hard that the gear gave up. It may not be the strongest gear in the world, but I've seen quite a few Spitfires bounce over the years, and you would have to slam it down pretty hard to break the gear.
The fact is - you can't.
Sure, it may have been completely pilot error, but at least let some who actually knows the facts make that finding.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having a discussion in here is so frequently like dealing with infants.
So, slackie, seeing as how you don't even understand the meaning of the word "allegation", let me help you:
Allegation - an assertion made with little or no proof.
With that in mind, the first quote you provide is not an allegation as there is abundant proof that these aircraft are rare; the second quote is not an allegation as it doesn't assert anything; the third quote is not an allegation as the state of the wx is easily provable from published forecasts and reports; and the fourth quote is not an allegation as it doesn't assert anything that hasn't already been established.
How do I know that there weren't any other issues or malfunctions? Partly because the constable who was reported clearly stated the circumstances of the accident, and if there had been any other issues he would have known about them, having spoken to the pilot. I'm sure the pilot would have made it very clear at an early point in the interview with the constable if there had been any other issues, as any pilot would. And partly because of the demeanour of the pilot, who was clearly embarrassed and wanted to keep silent about the whole thing.
If you want to hide your head in the sand and pretend that there is some hitherto unknown explanation that will completely exonerate the pilot, be my guest. Anyone with half a brain knows better.
It also amuses me that you hold investigators in such god-like regard. The report might stretch to ten pages or so of waffle, but the conclusion will be that the pilot screwed up.
So, slackie, seeing as how you don't even understand the meaning of the word "allegation", let me help you:
Allegation - an assertion made with little or no proof.
With that in mind, the first quote you provide is not an allegation as there is abundant proof that these aircraft are rare; the second quote is not an allegation as it doesn't assert anything; the third quote is not an allegation as the state of the wx is easily provable from published forecasts and reports; and the fourth quote is not an allegation as it doesn't assert anything that hasn't already been established.
How do I know that there weren't any other issues or malfunctions? Partly because the constable who was reported clearly stated the circumstances of the accident, and if there had been any other issues he would have known about them, having spoken to the pilot. I'm sure the pilot would have made it very clear at an early point in the interview with the constable if there had been any other issues, as any pilot would. And partly because of the demeanour of the pilot, who was clearly embarrassed and wanted to keep silent about the whole thing.
If you want to hide your head in the sand and pretend that there is some hitherto unknown explanation that will completely exonerate the pilot, be my guest. Anyone with half a brain knows better.
It also amuses me that you hold investigators in such god-like regard. The report might stretch to ten pages or so of waffle, but the conclusion will be that the pilot screwed up.
Jeez, watching this remoak stuff is better than watching fat spitting out of a hot frying pan - all spit and venom and absolutely no substance... If I had a dollar for every 'constable' who fundamentally misrepresented (with all good intentions) what they thought had happened at an accident site I would be rich enough to own something with turbines. Investigators investigate so we can all learn. I'll patiently wait for their efforts thanks.
Whoa! Do you mean to tell me that the investigators don't just finalise their report after listening to the police guy's quote that was second hand to him from some guy (professional aviation expert who has seen Top Gun AND Pearl Harbor - twice) who might have seen the impact, filtered by the media, and just stamp it "HANG THE GUILTY BASTARD - CASE CLOSED!" ??
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Live in Taupiri, Waikato, work in the big smoke, New Zealand
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well at least he's learnt to use a dictionary...if only he knew how to apply it....
In the first quote I was referring to the "clown" comment, not the aircraft! The rest stands!!
In the first quote I was referring to the "clown" comment, not the aircraft! The rest stands!!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly I never knew there were so many flyers here current on heavy high performance taildraggers.
One of the facts of the second world war is the sheer number of accidents that were non-combat related. The simple fact is hundreds of thousands of aircraft were written off in landing and take off accidents, due to total lack of experience and understanding on type. The guys flying these machines today are very experienced and mostly have done thousands of hours on lots of the same types, Pitts, Tiger, Harvard, Spitfire, P40, along with whatever their day job is on a multi-eng platform.
Whether it was his mistake or not, the accident has happened. Does anyone know how close the LA9 came to being a ball at the end of the runway on more than a few occasions. It has been ground looped by several of the guys no names here but it just shows that some of these machines are brutal and need that 120% attention, only once the machine has been shut down and put away in the hangar can one start to consider the rest of their day.
Hopefully they can get to the bottom of the issues with this particular Spitty and we see it flying in years ahead.
One of the facts of the second world war is the sheer number of accidents that were non-combat related. The simple fact is hundreds of thousands of aircraft were written off in landing and take off accidents, due to total lack of experience and understanding on type. The guys flying these machines today are very experienced and mostly have done thousands of hours on lots of the same types, Pitts, Tiger, Harvard, Spitfire, P40, along with whatever their day job is on a multi-eng platform.
Whether it was his mistake or not, the accident has happened. Does anyone know how close the LA9 came to being a ball at the end of the runway on more than a few occasions. It has been ground looped by several of the guys no names here but it just shows that some of these machines are brutal and need that 120% attention, only once the machine has been shut down and put away in the hangar can one start to consider the rest of their day.
Hopefully they can get to the bottom of the issues with this particular Spitty and we see it flying in years ahead.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Queensland
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lets face it..........everyone goofs up once in a while. Most times we're lucky to get away with it, bit sometimes fate plays her hand. Look at the aces that have died tragically in aircraft, guys that you unquestionably would place your own life in their ability.
I am sure the pilot of the Spitty feels much worse than all of us put together.
Ease off the bloke.
I am sure the pilot of the Spitty feels much worse than all of us put together.
Ease off the bloke.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: back of the crew bus
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah GA, dontcha just love it... 
Hundreds of thousands? Don't think so.
The first Spit, the Mk1, had 36 landing accidents from a total of 306 delivered. Most of these were down to the highly inexperienced pilots from much lower performance types, often with less than 50 hours total experience. So if ninety percent of those pilots could land the thing without crashing, why is it that highly experienced modern owners have so much trouble?
Anyway, let's all wait for the report that will no doubt conclude that the accident was due to global warming...
The simple fact is hundreds of thousands of aircraft were written off in landing and take off accidents, due to total lack of experience and understanding on type. The guys flying these machines today are very experienced and mostly have done thousands of hours on lots of the same types, Pitts, Tiger, Harvard, Spitfire, P40, along with whatever their day job is on a multi-eng platform.
The first Spit, the Mk1, had 36 landing accidents from a total of 306 delivered. Most of these were down to the highly inexperienced pilots from much lower performance types, often with less than 50 hours total experience. So if ninety percent of those pilots could land the thing without crashing, why is it that highly experienced modern owners have so much trouble?
Anyway, let's all wait for the report that will no doubt conclude that the accident was due to global warming...
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suspect that the high incidence of landing accidents in Spitfires when first introduced to RAF service was due to veteran pilots with umpteen dozen hours in Furies, Gauntlets and Gladiators neglecting to lower the landing gear. They were simply not accustomed to mod. cons. like retractable undercarriages.
I have also read that some of the old stagers refused to fly their new Spits and Hurries with the hood closed, as they did not approve of such modern luxuries.
I have also read that some of the old stagers refused to fly their new Spits and Hurries with the hood closed, as they did not approve of such modern luxuries.