BK crash today
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney NSW Australia
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i must agree with the comment about the aircraft hiding the pilots sins, The tecnam series are extremely easy to fly, and can pretty much land themselves if you get the speed spot on, but the Jab, is easy to fly, but hard to master, as it does not hide your mistakes. in my opinion, producing better pilots.
though with the SFTC jabirus, they operated a large fleet of them, but didnt own them, and SFTC failed to meet their lease agreement requirements, requiring the aircraft to fly a minimum of 10 hrs a week, and hence, the Jabirus were returned. (just a rumour i heard while looking at purchasing one of their jabirus myself)
though with the SFTC jabirus, they operated a large fleet of them, but didnt own them, and SFTC failed to meet their lease agreement requirements, requiring the aircraft to fly a minimum of 10 hrs a week, and hence, the Jabirus were returned. (just a rumour i heard while looking at purchasing one of their jabirus myself)
The J-160 is far more difficult to land than the C150/152 mainly because it decelates so quickly as the power comes off that it 'drops' onto the runway. Either you teach a more aggressive flare technique, or leave a touch of power on during the flare, so that the mains touch first.
For experienced GA instructors - it's no big deal to alter technique. I think an instructor coming thru from a basic RAA certificate, with only the minimum required 75 hrs prior to RAA instructor training - would have their hands full teaching well in any Jabby.
happy days,
For experienced GA instructors - it's no big deal to alter technique. I think an instructor coming thru from a basic RAA certificate, with only the minimum required 75 hrs prior to RAA instructor training - would have their hands full teaching well in any Jabby.
happy days,
Join Date: Feb 2006
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"For experienced GA instructors - it's no big deal to alter technique. I think an instructor coming thru from a basic RAA certificate, with only the minimum required 75 hrs prior to RAA instructor training - would have their hands full teaching well in any Jabby."
Quite the contrary as we have seen. It's the "experienced" GA instructors and their respective students that are coming to grief in these machines, not the RA instructors out there who are flying crap-loads more hours in them than their GA counterparts.
As they say if you learn in a Jab you can fly anything and many have proven this before.
The lighties such as the Europa / Liberty, Jab and Tecnams do need to be treated like a virgin moreso than any other aircraft and the sooner instructors can both learn this "skill" and pass it on to their students, the sooner they will stop crashing and pushing up all of our insurance premiums!
Quite the contrary as we have seen. It's the "experienced" GA instructors and their respective students that are coming to grief in these machines, not the RA instructors out there who are flying crap-loads more hours in them than their GA counterparts.
As they say if you learn in a Jab you can fly anything and many have proven this before.
The lighties such as the Europa / Liberty, Jab and Tecnams do need to be treated like a virgin moreso than any other aircraft and the sooner instructors can both learn this "skill" and pass it on to their students, the sooner they will stop crashing and pushing up all of our insurance premiums!
My take on this matter as a relatively low time PPL who learned on the 150 and Warrior, is that flying a Sportstar makes you a better pilot in some ways, but they are a little bit too "squirrelly" for ab initio work unless people take things very very slowly with an experienced instructor because they are a little fragile.
First off, and I can't speak for Tecnam or Liberty, they are a little more directionally unstable on the ground and in the air, meaning, like the Jab, you have to learn to use your rudder properly on takeoff as well as for coordinating your turns. Acceleration is "brisk" and you are in the air before you know it, which can be a surprise to some. They climb very well, and I would usually ask for and receive an early Left turn now and then in a circuit full of Cessnas.
Second, they are light and low to the ground, which means there is the possibility of a wingtip, tailskid or aileron tip scrape if you don't land it in a relatively level attitude, which can be an issue if it's gusty. I haven't done it (yet). The demonstrated crosswind limit is 12 knots for a Sportstar if my memory serves. What happens at the limit and above is that you will run out of aileron trying to get a wing down if your angle of attack is wrong and you get a gust just before or after you touch down.
As has been said before, they are light and don't penetrate much. I was warned that you can generate very high rates of decent with full flap and not enough power, and thus arrive ten feet high with no speed and no ideas. I haven't done that yet. On the other hand, if you have practised your short field landings, it is possible to stop before you reach the piano keys on 17L at YMMB
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My view is that they are a delight to fly, and flying them all the time is necessary to make the aircraft do what you want it to do. My view is that it makes you a better pilot for it, and when you return to a Cessna or Piper, you will find that you are automatically reacting to a set of subtle queues of aircraft behaviour that you didn't even notice before, well at least I didn't notice anyway.
First off, and I can't speak for Tecnam or Liberty, they are a little more directionally unstable on the ground and in the air, meaning, like the Jab, you have to learn to use your rudder properly on takeoff as well as for coordinating your turns. Acceleration is "brisk" and you are in the air before you know it, which can be a surprise to some. They climb very well, and I would usually ask for and receive an early Left turn now and then in a circuit full of Cessnas.
Second, they are light and low to the ground, which means there is the possibility of a wingtip, tailskid or aileron tip scrape if you don't land it in a relatively level attitude, which can be an issue if it's gusty. I haven't done it (yet). The demonstrated crosswind limit is 12 knots for a Sportstar if my memory serves. What happens at the limit and above is that you will run out of aileron trying to get a wing down if your angle of attack is wrong and you get a gust just before or after you touch down.
As has been said before, they are light and don't penetrate much. I was warned that you can generate very high rates of decent with full flap and not enough power, and thus arrive ten feet high with no speed and no ideas. I haven't done that yet. On the other hand, if you have practised your short field landings, it is possible to stop before you reach the piano keys on 17L at YMMB
.My view is that they are a delight to fly, and flying them all the time is necessary to make the aircraft do what you want it to do. My view is that it makes you a better pilot for it, and when you return to a Cessna or Piper, you will find that you are automatically reacting to a set of subtle queues of aircraft behaviour that you didn't even notice before, well at least I didn't notice anyway.
Join Date: May 2006
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Originally Posted by sunfish
As has been said before, they are light and don't penetrate much. I was warned that you can generate very high rates of decent with full flap and not enough power, and thus arrive ten feet high with no speed and no ideas. I haven't done that yet. On the other hand, if you have practised your short field landings, it is possible to stop before you reach the piano keys on 17L at YMMB
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In all honesty, the level bit isn't such an issue - although closer to the ground, they're also smaller (shorter/narrower), which yields not dissimilar available pitch and roll attitudes. But we do seem to be identifying a common theme.. "oops, too slow, crunch".
Realistically, they just require a bit more attention, and a switched on pilot - that might just take more time!
Another factor is the throttle systems: The sportstar has this vernier screw fine adjust, push-the-button-on-the-end-and-slide coarse. The result - screwing takes forever, and pushing the button yields a very free running and coarse adjustment. You either get nothing, or a bootfull - that makes controling the speed doubly difficult. The CT has a lever in the console back by your trouser pocket - better, but still a little clumsy.
Originally Posted by sunfish
My view is that it makes you a better pilot for it, and when you return to a Cessna or Piper, you will find that you are automatically reacting to a set of subtle queues of aircraft behaviour that you didn't even notice before, well at least I didn't notice anyway.
