Jeppesen or Airservices Australia publications?
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Jeppesen or Airservices Australia publications?
Ok guys, now that I have my new nav bag, I gota get some manuals to go in it 
I’ve got a bit of a dilemma here: should I go with Jeppesen or Airservices Australia publications?
My instructor seems to be of an opinion that Jepps at this point is somewhat a waste of money, but Airservices package is not that much cheaper by the time you get all the volumes you need.
I also though that since Jepps is predominantly used in workplaces around Australia, it may be a good idea to start getting used to it from the start? (it’s kinda like using E6B nav computer coz it’s easier to use when you know that for ATPL you need the Jepps circular computer – why not get Jepps circular to begin with?)
What do you guys think?
I’ve got a bit of a dilemma here: should I go with Jeppesen or Airservices Australia publications?
My instructor seems to be of an opinion that Jepps at this point is somewhat a waste of money, but Airservices package is not that much cheaper by the time you get all the volumes you need.
I also though that since Jepps is predominantly used in workplaces around Australia, it may be a good idea to start getting used to it from the start? (it’s kinda like using E6B nav computer coz it’s easier to use when you know that for ATPL you need the Jepps circular computer – why not get Jepps circular to begin with?)
What do you guys think?
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Ok, I suppose I should ask the question in a slightly different way… does Jeppesen contain sufficient info on Australian Air Law etc.? I am about to start my CPL training and I was told that with Jeppesen I would still need to get CAO and CAR to get me through the CASA exams.
Thanks
Thanks
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For me it would definitely be the Jepps. I used to use the DAPs during my training but since I've converted and I've never looked back!
I find that the Jepps organise things a bit more better on the plate. All of your holding information is right there in the middle of the plate on the approach chart. The picture of the procedure itself is much bigger compared to the DAP picture (which is good as it stops me from squinting to read the new track inbound!).
But at the end of the day it just comes down to your own preference. This is just some of things I've found using the Jepps which are much better than the DAPs.
The Jeppesens do contain all the information you would find in the AIP of the Airservices publications including all the IFR Enroute and TAC charts as part of the amendment service. Finally, you would still need to get the CAOs and CARs regardless if you are using Jepps or the Airservices publications.
Good luck with your training!
I find that the Jepps organise things a bit more better on the plate. All of your holding information is right there in the middle of the plate on the approach chart. The picture of the procedure itself is much bigger compared to the DAP picture (which is good as it stops me from squinting to read the new track inbound!).
But at the end of the day it just comes down to your own preference. This is just some of things I've found using the Jepps which are much better than the DAPs.
The Jeppesens do contain all the information you would find in the AIP of the Airservices publications including all the IFR Enroute and TAC charts as part of the amendment service. Finally, you would still need to get the CAOs and CARs regardless if you are using Jepps or the Airservices publications.
Good luck with your training!
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I would recommend the Jepps.
I wish my flying school did too.
The Jepps will replace DAP east and west, AIP gen and enr, ERSA and ERC and TAC charts.
The Jepps are cheaper to renew and will save you money in time.
If you pursue a flying career you will need to buy the Jepps at some stage and will throw all the money you invested into your ASA into the recycling bin.
It is not particularly difficult to switch between using the two but is also another consideration.
Try and borrow the rest for your exams, it is insane to be expected to spend so much money for a 90 minute quiz.
I wish my flying school did too.
The Jepps will replace DAP east and west, AIP gen and enr, ERSA and ERC and TAC charts.
The Jepps are cheaper to renew and will save you money in time.
If you pursue a flying career you will need to buy the Jepps at some stage and will throw all the money you invested into your ASA into the recycling bin.
It is not particularly difficult to switch between using the two but is also another consideration.
Try and borrow the rest for your exams, it is insane to be expected to spend so much money for a 90 minute quiz.
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Thanks for your answers.
Altimeters,
I realise that it’s the matter of personal preference, but I never used either of them, so it’s quite difficult to determine what my own preference would be.
I can only base my choice on the advice of other people and/or cost effectiveness. From the experiences of other people, I gathered that:
1) DAPs will be a cheaper option (as I would only need to get DAP west)
2) Information in Jepps is presented in a better way then in DAPs
3) Jepps amendments are every 2 weeks are thus are more difficult to keep up with
No1Dear,
I’m afraid I’d need to buy either of them sooner rather then later. I borrowed my school’s AIP, CAO and CAR for my PPL exam, and I found it quite difficult to find all the info as it was in a very bad condition with all the pages falling as it’s getting quite a workout being used by all the students. Also, I like referencing different information with tabs and obviously it’s harder to do if you borrow a copy.
I don’t believe my school has a copy of Jepps, but do you think it would worth it if I was to try and find one to have a look at before buying? Or would it be a waste of time as I really need to actually use both of them to get a general idea?
Altimeters,
I realise that it’s the matter of personal preference, but I never used either of them, so it’s quite difficult to determine what my own preference would be.
I can only base my choice on the advice of other people and/or cost effectiveness. From the experiences of other people, I gathered that:
1) DAPs will be a cheaper option (as I would only need to get DAP west)
2) Information in Jepps is presented in a better way then in DAPs
3) Jepps amendments are every 2 weeks are thus are more difficult to keep up with
No1Dear,
I’m afraid I’d need to buy either of them sooner rather then later. I borrowed my school’s AIP, CAO and CAR for my PPL exam, and I found it quite difficult to find all the info as it was in a very bad condition with all the pages falling as it’s getting quite a workout being used by all the students. Also, I like referencing different information with tabs and obviously it’s harder to do if you borrow a copy.
I don’t believe my school has a copy of Jepps, but do you think it would worth it if I was to try and find one to have a look at before buying? Or would it be a waste of time as I really need to actually use both of them to get a general idea?
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Jepps all the way.
And get online and print out all the other docs for your exams. In reality when you need to use CAR or CAO you will use the electronic version and search function.
And get online and print out all the other docs for your exams. In reality when you need to use CAR or CAO you will use the electronic version and search function.
I love the AsA documents. Now I have to use Jepps. 
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Not having used the DAP before I can't comment on its presentation. I do still use an AIP and ERSA all the time. I find it easier to find info due to the indices. ERSA I can't live without-it just is so much better when it comes to finding out aerodrome information. I do quite like the AOPA Airfield Directories too for that matter... Its definitely personal preference and I'd much rather give my money to the Australian Government than Boeing...
I converted to Jepps a few years ago after ASA changed the format. I did a dummy spit because I had a single small flight bag the neatly fitted all the old style docs and the new ASA docs are not nearly as comnpact. Jepp requires some learning, but it is a proper integrated system. You should make the choice before you start training.
The reasons I like Jepp are:
1. I find the (smaller) fortnightly revisions easier to keep on top of.
2. It seems that Jepp replace less pages due to typo's & dumb mistakes.
3. Jepp feel like they replace whole sections when there are numerous changes rather than a page here & a page there.
4. The type size on the Jepp plates is bigger for the critical information
5. When I ditched ASA the bleed through from printing on the back page was terrible. Jepps are more readable (despite thinner paper).
6. I like that Jepp test format changes using real world pilots in real world conditions, rather than the unilateral changes that ASA make.
7. 2 x 2 inch binders gets you everything with Jepp. I have a single 1 inch binder that keeps the charts & all my frequent airports. This together with an ERSA copy goes in a flight back which goes under my knees. The 2 inch binders go in a headset bag somewhere else in the aeroplane (depending on what else is on board).
8. The whole Jepp system uses the same format size. Its slightly narrower than the ASA A5 plates and I find works better in the cockpit. All the charts are the same format, so they all sit together in the Skylines IFR kneeboard neatly.
I have the old flexible leather binders which I personally like. I'd look on the US ebay site for binders and get the innards from Jepp in Australia.
The reasons I like Jepp are:
1. I find the (smaller) fortnightly revisions easier to keep on top of.
2. It seems that Jepp replace less pages due to typo's & dumb mistakes.
3. Jepp feel like they replace whole sections when there are numerous changes rather than a page here & a page there.
4. The type size on the Jepp plates is bigger for the critical information
5. When I ditched ASA the bleed through from printing on the back page was terrible. Jepps are more readable (despite thinner paper).
6. I like that Jepp test format changes using real world pilots in real world conditions, rather than the unilateral changes that ASA make.
7. 2 x 2 inch binders gets you everything with Jepp. I have a single 1 inch binder that keeps the charts & all my frequent airports. This together with an ERSA copy goes in a flight back which goes under my knees. The 2 inch binders go in a headset bag somewhere else in the aeroplane (depending on what else is on board).
8. The whole Jepp system uses the same format size. Its slightly narrower than the ASA A5 plates and I find works better in the cockpit. All the charts are the same format, so they all sit together in the Skylines IFR kneeboard neatly.
I have the old flexible leather binders which I personally like. I'd look on the US ebay site for binders and get the innards from Jepp in Australia.
Just for Ambitious. Jepp replace the AIP. You'll still need CAR's & CAO's. I did my CPL with downloaded copies. Jepps put things in different places (sometimes more logical, sometimes just different) than ASA, but everything in the AIP is in Jepps. You might find there is some interpretation required for theory references that assume your ussing the ASA docs, but its not too hard when you get into the swing of it. I did CPL with the ASA docs & ATPL with Jepp.
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I've found that Jepps are best for IAL. The AIP takes a bit of getting used to, but is well laid out once you understand the system.
For enroute charts, I also use Jepp, though for the CASA exams I found it was beneficial to use the Airservices versions, as they are a bit clearer in some areas, and I found it quicker to find data.
For enroute charts, I also use Jepp, though for the CASA exams I found it was beneficial to use the Airservices versions, as they are a bit clearer in some areas, and I found it quicker to find data.
DAPs will be a cheaper option (as I would only need to get DAP west)
I use Jepps and used them for my ATPL subjects. A big word of WARNING though. One of the CP/PNR questions in the ATPL Nav exam stretched across two Jepp enroute charts, to make matters worse the charts were back to back, i.e., printed on the same piece of paper so I couldn't put them together. It is not easy trying to plot across two charts like that!
If you're doing the ATPLs, at the very least you need to use the Airservices charts, and technically you're not supposed to mix and match for the exams, so you should be using Airservices for the whole AIP (I don't know that the supervisor would notice or care though.)
If you're doing the ATPLs, at the very least you need to use the Airservices charts, and technically you're not supposed to mix and match for the exams, so you should be using Airservices for the whole AIP (I don't know that the supervisor would notice or care though.)
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I'm still on air services publications cheaper and made from thicker paper. I don't find it to hard to switch over to jeps if there is a jep chart on the dash, it's not rocket science. There is some peer pressure among my fellow pilots to use jeps and the perception is that jeps are better and thats what xxx airline use bla bla bla. I'm not on international ops though so I don't care. In our company I don't care as long as it's current. about %50 of the pilots use jeps.
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RE: ERSA and or Jeppesen for PRD
Hello,
I'm studying for the Australian CPL Law exam.
I have a subscription with Jeppesen for the Australian IFR charts SIDs STARs etc (2 binders) over the Australian CAAs docs as we use Jeppesen at my current employer.
I've been looking for information on Prohibited, Restricted and Danger areas (times in effect etc) in my Jeppesen but only the definition of the above is available. I've been able to get the required info off the online ERSA. Should the detailed information on PRD's be avaliable in my Jeppesens or do I have to get an ERSA as well? I'm trying to determine if Jeppesen have left some pages out!
Cheers
I'm studying for the Australian CPL Law exam.
I have a subscription with Jeppesen for the Australian IFR charts SIDs STARs etc (2 binders) over the Australian CAAs docs as we use Jeppesen at my current employer.
I've been looking for information on Prohibited, Restricted and Danger areas (times in effect etc) in my Jeppesen but only the definition of the above is available. I've been able to get the required info off the online ERSA. Should the detailed information on PRD's be avaliable in my Jeppesens or do I have to get an ERSA as well? I'm trying to determine if Jeppesen have left some pages out!
Cheers
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I've been looking for information on Prohibited, Restricted and Danger areas (times in effect etc) in my Jeppesen but only the definition of the above is available. I've been able to get the required info off the online ERSA. Should the detailed information on PRD's be avaliable in my Jeppesens or do I have to get an ERSA as well? I'm trying to determine if Jeppesen have left some pages out!
Try the Air Traffic Control section (AU-204), Airspace Organization para 4.3.
I've never come across something in the AIPs that isn't in the Jepps - just in a slightly different order.
Back to the straw poll - Jepps.
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Ando1Bar thanks for that, but AU-204 is just where the definitions of the PRDs are. I'm wondering if the information provided in the ERSA (eg below) should be in the Jepps?
IDENT LIMIT HOUR AUTHORITY ACTIVITY
R119A (22) SFC - FL950 NOTAM Dept of Defence - Navy GUNNERY/MILITARY FLYING
IDENT LIMIT HOUR AUTHORITY ACTIVITY
R119A (22) SFC - FL950 NOTAM Dept of Defence - Navy GUNNERY/MILITARY FLYING
Name of the area, the vertical limits and hours of operation are all on the enroute and terminal charts. I'm not sure that the Jepps have information on the controlling authority for each area though.
Another vote for AIP.
As long as I have to buy my own documents, I will use the AIP. If the company wants me to use Jepps, and supplies Jepps, then I will use Jepps.
They're cheaper than Jepps, provided you don't buy all the maps for the entire country. If you just buy what you need, you save a fair bit. You'll need a real ERSA as well, no matter which one you go for - the airport directory in Jepps is woefully inadequate.
Amendments every three months is a plus for me- much more convenient than doing it every fortnight. It never takes more than an hour anyway to do all three (East/West/AIP) including setup time, and stopping for coffee between books.
AIP is available free on the internet, so you can jump online to check the exact wording of things even when you've left your own copy somewhere inconvenient - and the references are the same as in the book. Jepps users need to learn the AIP layout as well, in order to use the internet AIP. Another bonus is you can print out individual charts from the DAP, and print it on bigger sheets of paper. Excellent for large airport diagrams showing taxiways clearly.
The only disadvantage is, unlike the Jepps, the AIP pages aren't edible.
As long as I have to buy my own documents, I will use the AIP. If the company wants me to use Jepps, and supplies Jepps, then I will use Jepps.
They're cheaper than Jepps, provided you don't buy all the maps for the entire country. If you just buy what you need, you save a fair bit. You'll need a real ERSA as well, no matter which one you go for - the airport directory in Jepps is woefully inadequate.
Amendments every three months is a plus for me- much more convenient than doing it every fortnight. It never takes more than an hour anyway to do all three (East/West/AIP) including setup time, and stopping for coffee between books.
AIP is available free on the internet, so you can jump online to check the exact wording of things even when you've left your own copy somewhere inconvenient - and the references are the same as in the book. Jepps users need to learn the AIP layout as well, in order to use the internet AIP. Another bonus is you can print out individual charts from the DAP, and print it on bigger sheets of paper. Excellent for large airport diagrams showing taxiways clearly.
The only disadvantage is, unlike the Jepps, the AIP pages aren't edible.