CTAF Circuit Joining - Bushflight (con't)

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

gadude .. this place is the school of hard knocks .. but, the reality check is that most are prepared to provide the required knowledge along with a few barbs added here and there for good measure!
.
... as for Wal and Grif .. bit like the school yard trouble makers not at all like me of course .. but we love em all the same

[xxgoldxx]

While you mob carry on discussing it all Im gunna

*Listen to the CTAF from 20 nm
*Keep a extra GOOD lookout if its not CTAF (R)
*Listen to eveyone making all the mandatory calls with no reply (not suposed to respond these days eh..)
*Listen out for you guys making extra (non AIP calls) about the 2 guys with no radio and where they are in the sequence..
*Join on base with all the right calls if I can get a word in
*Be on the ground first if I can..

The least risk of a mid air has to be on the ground right ???

[Scurvy.D.Dog]

While you mob carry on discussing it all I’m gunna

*Listen to the CTAF from 20 nm

... too little too late unless you are flyin' a handkerchief!

*Keep a extra GOOD lookout if its not CTAF (R)

.. best you do if it IS a CTAF(R) as well!!

*Listen to everyone making all the mandatory calls with no reply (not supposed to respond these days eh..)

.. and what if nothing heard?? .. does that mean there are 6 of you saying nothing because no one has said anything?

*Listen out for you guys making extra (non AIP calls) about the 2 guys with no radio and where they are in the sequence..

... do you think radio equipped acft will tell you about no-radio nob's???

*Join on base with all the right calls if I can get a word in

.. good onya ... NOT!

*Be on the ground first if I can..

... yep. no worries, cause the meat and aluminium confetti will not obscure the runway as it (you and your spam can ... now in bits) will be about 2nm from the threshold

The least risk of a mid air has to be on the ground right ???

yep!!! ... it depends on how you choose to arrive on the ground that counts!!!

[james michael]

Werbil and SDD

I'll probably get shot for this revalation but it has long been my belief (and submission) that if we are serious about RPT safety at CTAF:
1. Every effort should be made to have RPT make SIA so they are then not exposed to circuit traffic that multiplies risk events, and,
2. Although CASA probably cannot make a rule that gives RPT ROW (even though that exists in CTA) there should be educational material to GA to do all possible to give ROW to RPT on SIA.

I have also suggested several times to CASA that GA VFR pilots should be checked on BASIC (emphasis) IFR procedures during their final PPL time and/or their AFR. Many don't understand the apparent 'non-conformance' of IFR RPT - so there's another accident waiting to happen.

Please don't any regional drivers get swollen heads at these suggestions - its for safety not your divinity

[gadude]

Quote ""*Listen to the CTAF from 20 nm""

It also pay's to listen on centre frequenty as I recently learned in Karratha.
You join the circuit after climbing up to circuit hight, joining xwind (good hey!!) after listing to CTAF for the last 20 nm. To discover there is a BIG wipper snipper flying down wind without making any calls.. And they seem to go a little slower that the old 210.
got me puzzled for a bit.

That happend twice and I figered out from then on that they must simply forget to switch back to CTAF frequentie after talking to centre.

I know he had to be around somewere as he did talk to centre before I was 20nm. And I do have a habit, like most off us i think, that I have centre tuned in, incase the engine goes a bit quiet.

At least that way I might have a change to talk to someone.

Cheers

[Arm Up A Cows Bum]

give ROW to RPT on SIA

WTFITSTM?

(Decode: What the f*ck is that supposed to mean?)

AUaCB

[Di_Vosh]

Erm..

Give

"Right Of Way to Regular Public Transport on Straight In Approaches"

And remember to wash your hands before eating - AUACB

DIVOSH!

[Dog One]

Try going into Kununurra during the dry season, with up to 20 GA types returning from the Bungles. The standrad calls become a pain, trying to sort out traffic, especially if you enter the runway between some ones calls and find yourself half way down the runway with some one turning base. This procedure of just making the required calls and looking out doesn't really work in a high traffic CTAF(R). I would hate to have to operate there all the time.

[landof4x]

Join on base with all the right calls if I can get a word in

CASA? Are you there?

[Capt Wally]

'4X' don't worry the likes of "gold" get caught eventually.
It won't be by CASA either sadly more like when he collects another trying to doing the RIGHT thing!


CW

[xxgoldxx]

Ahhh...

You guys bite so easily !!

The AIP says by 10 nm.. so I double it to be safe and Im still in trouble...!
I could actually be in more trouble from Wally cause Ive now done something in the interest of safety that is not as per the AIP (para 63.1 "should..." by 10 nm)

Join on base with all the right calls... god Im a demon that CASA should hang..!!

Ok push that base out a mile or two and make me a regional turboprop with lights and radios blaring and all of a sudden Im a legit straight in approach and everyone should give way to me cause Im the big kid on the block ??

I am actually allowed to do this in my "hankerchief" as well.. until scurvey runs me down cause "cct traffic has right of way"

[Flying Meat Cleaver]

As already stated I think CAR 166 is the governing regulation and there aren't any "Shoulds" in that.

FMC.

[VH-XXX]

You're allowed to do this in your "hankerchief" because why?

If you're referring to RA-Aus, then the same rules apply to you too.

[xxgoldxx]

yep.. my point exactly..

The same rules apply.. I dont need to join the cct at all.. I can conduct a straight in approach in anything from a "hankerchief" to the sapce shuttle.. so long as i broadcast, give way etc etc..

and yes it is by 10 nm for broadcast etc .. as already stated I intend to do that but in scurvys opinion its "... too little too late unless you are flyin' a handkerchief!

So which one is it... I join base and get shot down for being a reckless rule breaker... I broadcast/listen at 10 nm as per the rules and Im recless anyway !!!

[james michael]

I doubt SDD's "reckless" carries a strict liability penalty.

Desist joining base - fly at least one metre of the downwind leg, then join base

[Big Nasty]

all aircraft operating in and out of a ctaf or ctaf r should have to have a vhf fitted - they are not expensive and make it a lot safer for everybody

[Jabawocky]

Correct Big Nasty!

However there are a few folk, and some of them on here that think its their GOD given right to have everything for free. You breathe the air for free but you can't fly in it that way!

J

[james michael]

Agree SHOULD.

My belief is it is not assisted by reducing the VHF one can use.

If a Microair works in a Jabiru (good signal I have found) - why not in a C172?

[werbil]

Desist joining base - fly at least one metre of the downwind leg, then join base

If you do so make sure you broadcast joining very, very late downwind so that other pilots can optimise their visual scan to spot you (or just have the balls and be honest by broadcasting joining base).

If CASA starts prosecuting pilots from recordings of the CTAF where pilots broadcast joining base the end result will be that most of the pilots that currently join base will continue to do so but will either broadcast incorrect details or say absolutely nothing - great safety improvement.

And for those sanctimonious IFR pilots out there - remember in VMC CAR 166 generally requires you to fly three legs of the circuit if you can't comply with the requirements for a straight in approach. VMC is clearly defined in the AIP (as legislated by the CARs) - minimum distance from cloud and minimum visibility - so it can be pitch black in rain under a solid overcast on a moonless night with no visible ground lighting apart from the runway lights and it is still legally VMC (definitely not smart conditions to attempt to fly VFR) and you are legally required to comply with the above circuit entry procedures.

The really bad news is CAR 166 is one of the regulations with strict liability attached - this means that even if the only permitted ways of joining the circuit are downright dangerous (dark night, restricted visibility, low cloud base, terrain requirements etc) and you join using an alternate and far safer method you can still be prosecuted.

IMHO, the biggest problem with CAR 166 is it applies the same requirements to a busy training airfield, to an airfield with no circuit traffic and limited operations, to an aerodrome with RPT operations, to a basic strip that is only used by agricultural aircraft. Even CASA has acknowledged to some extent that this one solution fits all does not work by issuing exemptions to parts of CAR 166 for ALL seaplanes.