Is it worth doing ATPL's?
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Is it worth doing ATPL's?
G'day eternally wise PPRuNer's,
Having knocked off the CPL exams, I'm wondering what the general consensus is on doing the ATPL's while working in GA? Personally I couldnt be rooted reading any more books, but some people say it is a good idea to knock them all off at once.
Others say it can in fact harm your chances of scoring a half decent gig because the employers think that you are just an airline wannabe tosser that wants to use them for some quick command time.
Are they at all relevant/required in the world of GA? Do employers really care if you have them or not?
My feeling is why bother if you can't actually hold an ATPL until you have the required hours. I also think that they would perhaps be easier to study for with real world experience?
Happy to hear everyone's thoughts. - Thats peoples thought's on my question, not peoples thoughts on how many gps's you should have in a bonanza or peoples thoughts on the introduction of ADSB.
On a side note has anyone ever flown an ECHO? I'm just wondering how long it takes to do a flight plan? Maybe the reason i've never seen one is that they've all spun into the ground due CoG problems?
povopilot.
Having knocked off the CPL exams, I'm wondering what the general consensus is on doing the ATPL's while working in GA? Personally I couldnt be rooted reading any more books, but some people say it is a good idea to knock them all off at once.
Others say it can in fact harm your chances of scoring a half decent gig because the employers think that you are just an airline wannabe tosser that wants to use them for some quick command time.
Are they at all relevant/required in the world of GA? Do employers really care if you have them or not?
My feeling is why bother if you can't actually hold an ATPL until you have the required hours. I also think that they would perhaps be easier to study for with real world experience?
Happy to hear everyone's thoughts. - Thats peoples thought's on my question, not peoples thoughts on how many gps's you should have in a bonanza or peoples thoughts on the introduction of ADSB.
On a side note has anyone ever flown an ECHO? I'm just wondering how long it takes to do a flight plan? Maybe the reason i've never seen one is that they've all spun into the ground due CoG problems?
povopilot.
Silly Old Git
Others say it can in fact harm your chances of scoring a half decent gig because the employers think that you are just an airline wannabe tosser that wants to use them for some quick command time.
I also think that they would perhaps be easier to study for with real world experience?
The sooner you get it out of the way the sooner you get the nice suit and get to play press the buttons
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I don't have any ATPL's but i supose you are in studie mood why not keep going??
as for
""Others say it can in fact harm your chances of scoring a half decent gig because the employers think that you are just an airline wannabe tosser that wants to use them for some quick command time""
I think that GA operators know that at some stage you will move on into bigger and shinyer things. They do want your full comitment for the time being which is fair enough as you are employed by them. Respect comes from both ways. they are prepared to give you a start. you give them time and commitment.
Nothing enoyes an GA employer more however if all you can talk about is airlines and the "I can't wait to get into twins" and than "i am a twin pilot i don't want to fly singles anymore" from my experience anyway.
Some employers see it that you are going to airlines and do there best to prep you for it as much as they can. like doing your paperwork very nice and tidy. filling in incident reports etc.
at least thats how it was were i worked.
all the best
as for
""Others say it can in fact harm your chances of scoring a half decent gig because the employers think that you are just an airline wannabe tosser that wants to use them for some quick command time""
I think that GA operators know that at some stage you will move on into bigger and shinyer things. They do want your full comitment for the time being which is fair enough as you are employed by them. Respect comes from both ways. they are prepared to give you a start. you give them time and commitment.
Nothing enoyes an GA employer more however if all you can talk about is airlines and the "I can't wait to get into twins" and than "i am a twin pilot i don't want to fly singles anymore" from my experience anyway.
Some employers see it that you are going to airlines and do there best to prep you for it as much as they can. like doing your paperwork very nice and tidy. filling in incident reports etc.
at least thats how it was were i worked.
all the best
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G'day eternally wise PPRuNer's
how many gps's you should have in a bonanza
Minimum of 3, maximum of as many as you can fit in!
peoples thoughts on the introduction of ADSB
has anyone ever flown an ECHO?
Is it worth doing ATPL's?
GG
Which way? Oh yes, over there!
Just finished off my ATPLs. Get them done as fast as you can. You don't want to wait until you need them to do them. Also the reverse is true. Some light single operators prefer they are out of the way, as you don't end up taking leave of work to finish them. If it worries you that much, don't mention that you have ATPL theory when you apply, just say you have a CPL
Also, much of the Met and HuFac exams are based on CPL theory, so if you've just done the CPLs recently its better to get these done now than to have to redo CPL and then some a little later down the track.
Seriously, get them done, you won't regret it. Once they're done, no more ASL exams unless you want a chopper licence or a Gr1 rating
Also, much of the Met and HuFac exams are based on CPL theory, so if you've just done the CPLs recently its better to get these done now than to have to redo CPL and then some a little later down the track.
Seriously, get them done, you won't regret it. Once they're done, no more ASL exams unless you want a chopper licence or a Gr1 rating
Yeah mate get'em done while your mind is still used to studying! I did my CPL exam (yup just one) back in '01, and i wish i had of just kept going. Mostly because if i had of done them then i wouldn't have to be doing them now! Having "real world" experience won't help you pass them, unless you worked as a flight planner on 727's, and have some working knowledge of the 767!
As for the Echo i heard that that was invented by the CASA. Just cause they're nice guys! I could be wrong though.
Cheers,
Greaser.
As for the Echo i heard that that was invented by the CASA. Just cause they're nice guys! I could be wrong though.
Cheers,
Greaser.
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If your going to pursue the flying game all the way to the top the study is not going to stop once you have your ATPLs..........each to their own i guess....it sure feels good not to do another ASL exam again though!!!
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Tin, no that doesnt apply to me. I would be happy to see out a career having flown nothing bigger than a C404.
Cap'n Arrr i always thought that the ECHO was a fictional aircraft that was designed to make life hard for CPL students, but now that you say it, it may be loosely based on the C340.
Cost is a real factor in deciding if i am going to do them. It is around $1000 in exam fees alone, plus all the study material.
Still keen to know if many operators care if you have/have not passed them and if they are even relevant to anything i am likely to fly within my first few years of flying?
povopilot.
Cap'n Arrr i always thought that the ECHO was a fictional aircraft that was designed to make life hard for CPL students, but now that you say it, it may be loosely based on the C340.
Cost is a real factor in deciding if i am going to do them. It is around $1000 in exam fees alone, plus all the study material.
Still keen to know if many operators care if you have/have not passed them and if they are even relevant to anything i am likely to fly within my first few years of flying?
povopilot.
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'Povo" plenty of good advice in here. You don't "need" ATPL exams to fly a plane, any plane, most of it you will memory dump straight after passing anyway (it would be interesting to know how many could walk in & pass them now after say 3 yrs away from it) but you need them if you want to go to the top, well I should say to the end, I wouldn't consider flying a 'BUS' the top, wrong choice of words there. Like others have said, continue studying, I had a 10 yr break between CPL & ATPL, sheeeez felt like I was studying to be a rocket scientist
They are the biggest waste of time man ever invented but unless you want to stay poor jump thru the hoops & get on with life
CW
They are the biggest waste of time man ever invented but unless you want to stay poor jump thru the hoops & get on with lifeCW
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Speaking from personal experience here. Get them done before you get a job. It is very hard to come home from a 6hr flying day and get stuck into the books. As most people have said get them done and then you have nothing more to worry about.
It is funny, people were telling me to do them before i got a job but i didnt and now i wish i had. I have 4 down and 3 to go and trying to study and work at the same time is tough
300
It is funny, people were telling me to do them before i got a job but i didnt and now i wish i had. I have 4 down and 3 to go and trying to study and work at the same time is tough
300
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I met the quals for mine years back. I kept saying, oh ill do it this year. well i missed out on an oppertunity last year because i didn have it done. I got the picture that I needed it. It wasnt that I didnt have the quals, it was just a paperwork issue for the employer
Next break I had, I roared up to Florida and knocked it out. Now 8 months later, I just accepted a new job, flying fancy new kit, almost doubling my take home, just because I have the slip of paper!
You decide if it is worth it.
IMO, your in study mode, knock it out. You may not use it for years to come, but having it in your back pocket when its needed is a nice feeling to have
Next break I had, I roared up to Florida and knocked it out. Now 8 months later, I just accepted a new job, flying fancy new kit, almost doubling my take home, just because I have the slip of paper!
You decide if it is worth it.
IMO, your in study mode, knock it out. You may not use it for years to come, but having it in your back pocket when its needed is a nice feeling to have
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As rotor said, he went up to Florida to get them out of the way. Obviously the FAA ATP, not a bad option if you are not considering QF, not sure about the rest these days if they accept the converted FAA.
Pove put it this way you may be happy flying a 404, why not great aircraft, but lets say you are belting around in the 404 and an oportunity knocks up to belt around in a DC3, well without the ATP you are in the right seat only.
In other words heed the wise word of wisdom here and get them done, not necissarily the Aussie way though as you may not need to.
With the FAA you need the hours to go and get the ATP issued, you can do frozen theory but no point really. Jump on the FAA site, though the flight hours are similar to Oz. Then its over to the States with a plethora of options do the exam online after a weeks study (GLIEM), you will then need to fly with an instructor in a twin engine piston, say a Seminloe or the likes, then the ATP check ride. All up its basically a very detailed IFR check ride and including the check if you are current with the flying expect no more than 10 hours total flying (rates in the States are cheaper than Oz).
Then its an exam conversion back here (only ATP Air Law as you will already have your Aussie CPL and IFR) and bingo, although I did hear rumor only that CASA was going to make it harder to go this route?
Cost v Oz...
FAA - return airfares to the East Coast of the US of A say $1800,
Theory - around a couple of hundred including the exam,
10 hours in a twin say around $350 an hour max including instructor,
Examiners fee around $350 - $500,
Accomodation to your requirements,
A great holiday while you do it!
Only problem now is the bl**dy exchange rate!
Pove put it this way you may be happy flying a 404, why not great aircraft, but lets say you are belting around in the 404 and an oportunity knocks up to belt around in a DC3, well without the ATP you are in the right seat only.
In other words heed the wise word of wisdom here and get them done, not necissarily the Aussie way though as you may not need to.
With the FAA you need the hours to go and get the ATP issued, you can do frozen theory but no point really. Jump on the FAA site, though the flight hours are similar to Oz. Then its over to the States with a plethora of options do the exam online after a weeks study (GLIEM), you will then need to fly with an instructor in a twin engine piston, say a Seminloe or the likes, then the ATP check ride. All up its basically a very detailed IFR check ride and including the check if you are current with the flying expect no more than 10 hours total flying (rates in the States are cheaper than Oz).
Then its an exam conversion back here (only ATP Air Law as you will already have your Aussie CPL and IFR) and bingo, although I did hear rumor only that CASA was going to make it harder to go this route?
Cost v Oz...
FAA - return airfares to the East Coast of the US of A say $1800,
Theory - around a couple of hundred including the exam,
10 hours in a twin say around $350 an hour max including instructor,
Examiners fee around $350 - $500,
Accomodation to your requirements,
A great holiday while you do it!
Only problem now is the bl**dy exchange rate!
I highly caution anyone from doing the FAA ATP -> ATPL conversion.
Reasons;
1) Many airlines actively won't recruit you. Virgin, Jetstar, Qantas etc.
2) After converting not easy to go back and do the theory exams if you change your mind and need a local ATPL. Casa themselves told me not to do this as if you fail an exam you effectively lose your converted ATPL instantly.
3) With money spent on accomodation, flights, $$$ spent converting to FAA stuff and then back, its not beneficial cost wise.
Reasons;
1) Many airlines actively won't recruit you. Virgin, Jetstar, Qantas etc.
2) After converting not easy to go back and do the theory exams if you change your mind and need a local ATPL. Casa themselves told me not to do this as if you fail an exam you effectively lose your converted ATPL instantly.
3) With money spent on accomodation, flights, $$$ spent converting to FAA stuff and then back, its not beneficial cost wise.
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Good points Pluto and Tempo, cheers. Likewise Capt Wally, I would love to work for your mob one day and i guess if you can do it then anyone can ha ha!
I think that i'm gonna take a short break though as summer is here and there is beer to be drunk.
I might start by knocking off Met, Human Factors and Air Law as the general train of thought seems to be that they are not much of a step up from CPL level. Is there much IREX related stuff in the Air Law / Met exams?, as i'm a fair way off being able to afford an instrument rating and i have also heard that it is better to do the IREX between CPL and ATPL exams?
povopilot.
I think that i'm gonna take a short break though as summer is here and there is beer to be drunk.
I might start by knocking off Met, Human Factors and Air Law as the general train of thought seems to be that they are not much of a step up from CPL level. Is there much IREX related stuff in the Air Law / Met exams?, as i'm a fair way off being able to afford an instrument rating and i have also heard that it is better to do the IREX between CPL and ATPL exams?
povopilot.
Hey Povo (aren't we all),
I liked having some of those easy ones left over for when I felt like I needed a win. Such as following Flight Planning! Everyone is different in how they attack'em though.
Good luck!
Cheers,
Greaser.
I liked having some of those easy ones left over for when I felt like I needed a win. Such as following Flight Planning! Everyone is different in how they attack'em though.
Good luck!
Cheers,
Greaser.