Copilot 'passed out' before Garuda crash
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Copilot 'passed out' before Garuda crash
I thought this item from ABC News Website may be of interest.
Copilot 'passed out' before Garuda crash
By Jakarta correspondent Geoff Thompson and wires
Posted Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:35pm AEDT
Updated Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:56pm AEDT
Five Australians were among those killed when the plane slammed onto the runway at Yogyakarta airport.
Five Australians were among those killed when the plane slammed onto the runway at Yogyakarta airport. (Reuters: Pentak Lanud Adisucipto, file photo)
The copilot of the Garuda plane that crashed in Yogjakarta last year is now claiming he blacked out until the aircraft came to a halt in a rice field.
Five Australians were among those killed when the Garuda Indonesia Boeing 737 slammed onto the runway at Yogyakarta airport, careered into a rice paddy field and exploded in flames on March 7, 2007.
In evidence given to police, Garuda copilot Gagam Saman Rohmana said that his plane was flying too fast when in crashed in Yogjakarta.
He repeatedly told pilot Marwoto Komar to "go around" rather than attempt to land on the airport's short runway at almost twice the normal speed.
But appearing as a witness at the criminal trial of Captain Komar, Mr Gagam withdrew that testimony and now says he fainted at an altitude of 2,500 feet and did not wake up until the plane was already on the runway.
Komar is fighting charges he deliberately crashed the jet, which carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.
Mr Gagam said he found himself upside down when it came to rest in a ricefield.
"When I yelled go around, after that I passed out not long after that. I regained consciousness when the plane was already past the runway," he said.
"I don't know when Marwoto said that 'hey, something is not right' because I was already unconscious. So at that time there was no coordination between the pilot and I."
Gagam, who has failed to show up at two previous court hearings, appeared to be ill during his three-hour court appearance, and almost fainted during a break.
He said he was influenced by media opinion in his earlier comments, and admitted he was unclear about the chronology of events and did not read his police statement fully before signing it.
Indonesia's National Transport Safety Committee last year found Komar ignored 15 automated alarms before he landed at about twice the safe speed.
Gagam, dressed in his pilot's uniform, said the plane started shaking after he attempted to reduce the speed by lifting a flap, and he yelled for the pilot to go around again before landing.
"But how many times, and whether the captain listened or not, I don't know because I was already unconscious," he said.
He said both he and the captain were upside down in their broken seats when the plane came to a halt, before they managed to escape the smoke-filled aircraft.
Both men tried to help a female passenger who was trapped.
"At that time I asked Captain Marwoto [for both of us] to ask forgiveness to God," he said.
The hearing continues with testimony expected from security officers at Jakarta airport.
By Jakarta correspondent Geoff Thompson and wires
Posted Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:35pm AEDT
Updated Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:56pm AEDT
Five Australians were among those killed when the plane slammed onto the runway at Yogyakarta airport.
Five Australians were among those killed when the plane slammed onto the runway at Yogyakarta airport. (Reuters: Pentak Lanud Adisucipto, file photo)
The copilot of the Garuda plane that crashed in Yogjakarta last year is now claiming he blacked out until the aircraft came to a halt in a rice field.
Five Australians were among those killed when the Garuda Indonesia Boeing 737 slammed onto the runway at Yogyakarta airport, careered into a rice paddy field and exploded in flames on March 7, 2007.
In evidence given to police, Garuda copilot Gagam Saman Rohmana said that his plane was flying too fast when in crashed in Yogjakarta.
He repeatedly told pilot Marwoto Komar to "go around" rather than attempt to land on the airport's short runway at almost twice the normal speed.
But appearing as a witness at the criminal trial of Captain Komar, Mr Gagam withdrew that testimony and now says he fainted at an altitude of 2,500 feet and did not wake up until the plane was already on the runway.
Komar is fighting charges he deliberately crashed the jet, which carry a maximum penalty of life imprisonment.
Mr Gagam said he found himself upside down when it came to rest in a ricefield.
"When I yelled go around, after that I passed out not long after that. I regained consciousness when the plane was already past the runway," he said.
"I don't know when Marwoto said that 'hey, something is not right' because I was already unconscious. So at that time there was no coordination between the pilot and I."
Gagam, who has failed to show up at two previous court hearings, appeared to be ill during his three-hour court appearance, and almost fainted during a break.
He said he was influenced by media opinion in his earlier comments, and admitted he was unclear about the chronology of events and did not read his police statement fully before signing it.
Indonesia's National Transport Safety Committee last year found Komar ignored 15 automated alarms before he landed at about twice the safe speed.
Gagam, dressed in his pilot's uniform, said the plane started shaking after he attempted to reduce the speed by lifting a flap, and he yelled for the pilot to go around again before landing.
"But how many times, and whether the captain listened or not, I don't know because I was already unconscious," he said.
He said both he and the captain were upside down in their broken seats when the plane came to a halt, before they managed to escape the smoke-filled aircraft.
Both men tried to help a female passenger who was trapped.
"At that time I asked Captain Marwoto [for both of us] to ask forgiveness to God," he said.
The hearing continues with testimony expected from security officers at Jakarta airport.
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Do they have one of those unions up there where the Co's wife gets cornered outside the supermarket by a thug called "Bunny" with tattoos on his face or something like that!!??
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Gagam, dressed in his pilot's uniform, said the plane started shaking after he attempted to reduce the speed by lifting a flap, and he yelled for the pilot to go around again before landing.
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I no longer have the crash comic with the account of this crash but my memory of it has the CVR recording the FO still asking the Capt. to go round (in a much too polite tone given the circumstances) much lower than 2,500'. However, I stand to be corrected.
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From what I have read, the F/O repeated three times, "please we should go around" and you have to understand in their culture to argue with the Captain is akin to raping his wife, (not like in ours where it is perfectly acceptable to say " Captain you must listen to me" (if you are sure he has lost his marbles) so the poor bugger was pushing it uphill from the start. Short of knocking the skipper out, he was in a terrible situation, and probably had a fair idea where it was all going to end up. I would not condemm him, just be glad you were not him.
teresa green,
seriously? You think his culture would prefer that they rather crash than force the go-around? Well, in that case, that nationality(culture) shouldn't fly aeroplanes. (Betya he now thinks he should have raped the skipper's wife!)
He could have simply selected the gear up to force the go-around ("oops sorry skipper, I bumped the lever")
seriously? You think his culture would prefer that they rather crash than force the go-around? Well, in that case, that nationality(culture) shouldn't fly aeroplanes. (Betya he now thinks he should have raped the skipper's wife!)
He could have simply selected the gear up to force the go-around ("oops sorry skipper, I bumped the lever")
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Watchdog, you have no idea about Asian cultures. The authority gradient in the cockpit is like Mt Everest. Plus lying is preferable to losing face. They almost NEVER admit mistakes or take responsibility for their own errors. This will be an interesting case to say the least.
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And now - is the FO at risk of never flying again if he testifies?
Sounds like - and I am speculating - someone's left him a bullet in his mailbox.
Sounds like - and I am speculating - someone's left him a bullet in his mailbox.
Quote:
Gagam, dressed in his pilot's uniform, said the plane started shaking after he attempted to reduce the speed by lifting a flap, and he yelled for the pilot to go around again before landing.
Does this make any sense to anyone ?
Gagam, dressed in his pilot's uniform, said the plane started shaking after he attempted to reduce the speed by lifting a flap, and he yelled for the pilot to go around again before landing.
Does this make any sense to anyone ?
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Teresa G nailed it. If you haven't been there, don't presume. As someone else said 'and they genuinely think we will swallow it!' Yeah they do - he's giving the boss an out. It seems pathetic from our standpoint, but it's perfectly natural in theirs.
TG, at least, has some cultural sympathy. No, I don't think it's right, but I have some degree of understanding.
TG, at least, has some cultural sympathy. No, I don't think it's right, but I have some degree of understanding.
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Hey, Watchdog...
You may recall that almost new China Air B747-400 that overrun the runway at KaiTak some years ago, ended up in the bay! They couldn't move it quickly, so they blew the tail off with explosives to get the airport open again!
That, I believe, was a set of very similar circumstances to this accident!
That is, no effective communication between the pilots.
Cheers...FD...
You may recall that almost new China Air B747-400 that overrun the runway at KaiTak some years ago, ended up in the bay! They couldn't move it quickly, so they blew the tail off with explosives to get the airport open again!
That, I believe, was a set of very similar circumstances to this accident!
That is, no effective communication between the pilots.
Cheers...FD...
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In this case a crew member survived, how many other similar cases in which culture played an important part in an A/C's departure from controlled flight where there where no crew members survivors? Quite a few I'd say.
Shall be interesting to see how the western world accepts this one, so far here as in PPRUNE it's tantamount to total BS buit we don't live in their twisted world!
CW
Shall be interesting to see how the western world accepts this one, so far here as in PPRUNE it's tantamount to total BS buit we don't live in their twisted world!
CW
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And the really sad part is - they genuinely believe that we will swallow it!
Ain't that the Truth!!!! What a "Load of Crap"
The FO needs to be sent to Prison too for say such "Ridiculous BS"
I am sure his so called "Fainting spells" will be cured when he is bunkin' with "Big Bubba" in a prison cell!!!!!
Fly safe Everybody!
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And the really sad part is - they genuinely believe that we will swallow it!
Ain't that the Truth!!!! What a "Load of Crap"
The FO needs to be sent to Prison too for say such "Ridiculous BS"
I am sure his so called "Fainting spells" will be cured when he is bunkin' with "Big Bubba" in a prison cell!!!!!
Fly safe Everybody!
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seriously? You think his culture would prefer that they rather crash than force the go-around?
The same mentality allowed a JAL DC8 captain to attempt a take-off while so intoxicated he had to be assisted aboard the aircraft.
When the time came and he insisted on doing the take-off, no crewmember could overcome the cultural barrier to bring a stop to the proceedings.
Result ? Aircraft rolled shortly after becoming airborne and liberated the ground beneath killing ALL on board.
Has the culture changed ?...it would appear not.
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teresa green,
If I sounded as though I didn't understand the cultural mores that exist in Asia then I apologise. I am very well aware of both the command structure and the overarching concept of "face".
However, they have no place in modern aviation and if Asian airlines cannot deal with it then they have no place in Australian airspace. Harsh? Yes, but both concepts make aviation more hazardous than it needs to be. The consequences can be fatal as this crash demonstrated.
Boeing and Airbus have invested massive sums over the years trying to make their products safer and that has included the human factors that are at work in their cockpits. They have realised that if the accident rate remains static then more people will die as the amount of air traffic around the world increases. If self-defeating attitudes are allowed to continue then all that investment is wasted.
If I sounded as though I didn't understand the cultural mores that exist in Asia then I apologise. I am very well aware of both the command structure and the overarching concept of "face".
However, they have no place in modern aviation and if Asian airlines cannot deal with it then they have no place in Australian airspace. Harsh? Yes, but both concepts make aviation more hazardous than it needs to be. The consequences can be fatal as this crash demonstrated.
Boeing and Airbus have invested massive sums over the years trying to make their products safer and that has included the human factors that are at work in their cockpits. They have realised that if the accident rate remains static then more people will die as the amount of air traffic around the world increases. If self-defeating attitudes are allowed to continue then all that investment is wasted.
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Watchdog - If you research the MH FK50 crash in Tawau, Sep 1995 ASN Aircraft accident Fokker 50 9M-MGH Tawau Airport (TWU) resulting in 34 casualties, you will see that
is not unknown in a very similar culture. 
The young co-pilot in this event (a very nice and competent young man) did not have to claim passing out, as his excuse - he just died in the crash instead. Yes he was a competent young man, I suggest it was the culture that led to his behaviour on the day.
ps. Ignore the Wiki(sh!t) web content- That is just what someone wants you to think, and doesn't reflect reality.
seriously? You think his culture would prefer that they rather crash than force the go-around?
The young co-pilot in this event (a very nice and competent young man) did not have to claim passing out, as his excuse - he just died in the crash instead. Yes he was a competent young man, I suggest it was the culture that led to his behaviour on the day.
ps. Ignore the Wiki(sh!t) web content- That is just what someone wants you to think, and doesn't reflect reality.
Last edited by Back Seat Driver; 28th Oct 2008 at 22:08. Reason: To add web link