Tricky CPL Air Law question.
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Tricky CPL Air Law question.
I'm preparing for an exam on Friday and came across the following question.
Any flight within an ADIZ will always be exempt from the 'general requirements' for such operations if -
a) the true air speed is below 120 kt
b) the flight does not proceed beyond 5 nm of the departure point
c) the flight is conducted in CTA
d) the flight originates from an aerodrome within the ADIZ
I chose D which was wrong, that only leaves B as being the most correct answer however.. AIP ENR 1.12-1 1.1.4.b states that the flight may remain within 10NM of the point of departure. What is the reasoning behind answer b ? What if I decide to proceed beyond 5nm and stay within 10nm...
Thanks in advance.
btw.. Air Law is the most boring CPL subject so far.
Any flight within an ADIZ will always be exempt from the 'general requirements' for such operations if -
a) the true air speed is below 120 kt
b) the flight does not proceed beyond 5 nm of the departure point
c) the flight is conducted in CTA
d) the flight originates from an aerodrome within the ADIZ
I chose D which was wrong, that only leaves B as being the most correct answer however.. AIP ENR 1.12-1 1.1.4.b states that the flight may remain within 10NM of the point of departure. What is the reasoning behind answer b ? What if I decide to proceed beyond 5nm and stay within 10nm...
Thanks in advance.
btw.. Air Law is the most boring CPL subject so far.
I think it stands for Australian Defence Identification Zone, but anywho its basically airspace around an Airforce Aerodrome. The question relates to say restricted space around an Airforce Aerodrome and an aerodrome which is located inside that restricted airspace.
Neither B nor D is technically correct. Whilst B states 5nm the AIP states its actually 10nm so technically that answer is incorrect. D is also technically correct due to AIP 1.12-1, 1.1.4 (a) a flight originating within a ADIZ which maintains a steady outbound track; So D is also correct EXCEPT it doesn't specifically state whether your moving with a steady outbound track or whether the flight just originates from there.
Air Law is all about interpretation as i'm sure you've already learnt, by far one of the most annoying exams especially with an 80% pass mark required.
Neither B nor D is technically correct. Whilst B states 5nm the AIP states its actually 10nm so technically that answer is incorrect. D is also technically correct due to AIP 1.12-1, 1.1.4 (a) a flight originating within a ADIZ which maintains a steady outbound track; So D is also correct EXCEPT it doesn't specifically state whether your moving with a steady outbound track or whether the flight just originates from there.
Air Law is all about interpretation as i'm sure you've already learnt, by far one of the most annoying exams especially with an 80% pass mark required.
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Look, I don't have an opinion on the Law question posted, but...
My understanding of ADIZ is: Air Defence Identification Zone. I don't believe it necessarily has anything to do with the location of any airforce airfields, other than they will be the resource for the assets necessary to confirm any Identification requiring it!
As I understand it, in the case of Australia an ADIZ may be the entire coastline of the island-continent, out to a pre-defined limit which is probably promulgated somewhere in the AIP!
A quick Google search provides:
which would seem to largely agree with my interpretation of it.
My understanding of ADIZ is: Air Defence Identification Zone. I don't believe it necessarily has anything to do with the location of any airforce airfields, other than they will be the resource for the assets necessary to confirm any Identification requiring it!
As I understand it, in the case of Australia an ADIZ may be the entire coastline of the island-continent, out to a pre-defined limit which is probably promulgated somewhere in the AIP!
A quick Google search provides:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
An Air Defense Identication Zone is defined as "the area of airspace over land or water, extending upward from the surface, within which the ready identification, the location, and the control of aircraft are required in the interest of national security."[1] Typically, aircraft entering an ADIZ is required to radio its planned course, destination, and any additional details about its trip through the ADIZ to a higher authority, typically an air traffic controller. ADIZs typically occur along international borders, but can also surround areas of high security, such as the airspace above the American capital of Washington, D.C. ADIZs are commonly used as part of international airspace control arrangements in many countries, including the United States, Australia, and Japan.
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Ithink the answer would have to be (b) ( i do not have my AIP with me) because the flight is only going 5NM and not outside the 10NM it will be exempt from "general requirements". The flight could go out to 10NM and it would be okay, any where after 10NM it wouldnt. (d) is incorrect because the answer states that the flight only originates from ADIZ aerodrome and we can not be sure if it will be exempt from the general requirements.
Hope this helps a bit
Hope this helps a bit
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And for my two bobs worth the same info is covered in ERSA - EMERG 24, I actually had this question in my exam but the answer added that you maintained a steady outbound track from your point of departure.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Grandpa Aerotart
B 10nm is a limit not a target. What was tricky about that?
All the CASA exams, Air Leg in particular, require good comprehension skills. Comprehension of the written word is, generally speaking, woefully lacking these days...Pprune is living proof of that.
All the CASA exams, Air Leg in particular, require good comprehension skills. Comprehension of the written word is, generally speaking, woefully lacking these days...Pprune is living proof of that.
An ADIZ is not "the airspace around an airforce aerodrome". An ADIZ is a defined, promulgated area of airspace, declared to be an ADIZ. There was one around Sydney for the APEC debacle.
Military aerodromes usually have Restricted Areas around them, which is not the same thing.
All your ADIZ information is contained on the friendly pages of AIP ENR 1.12
Military aerodromes usually have Restricted Areas around them, which is not the same thing.
All your ADIZ information is contained on the friendly pages of AIP ENR 1.12
Gotta love CASA Questions
You gotta love CASA questions....ATPL air law is even trickier....and they claim they don't try to trick you....Bullsh*t!
Unfortunately you can't get away from CASA and their twisted questions....not even when you go for your Dash endorsement....there they are again to make your day.
Unfortunately you can't get away from CASA and their twisted questions....not even when you go for your Dash endorsement....there they are again to make your day.
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Thanks for the responses 
.......... Comprehension of the written word is, generally speaking, woefully lacking these days...Pprune is living proof of that.
Because the question asks "Which of the following is allowed"
b) is allowed, as you are not going outside the 10nm
d) may be allowed, provided certain other things are done (steady track, but this is not mentioned in this answer)
However as d) only states "originating in the zone", it is not as correct as b).
Remember with every CASA exam, it is NOT the right answer you are looking for, it is the MOST CORRECT.
Some questions, especially ones that ask "which is the most important consideration when..." will have more than one answer which is correct, but one is more important, or all the answers are wrong, but one is closer to being right than the others. As Chimbu said, it's all about comprehension.
Totally agree. And ATPL Flight Planning is just as bad.
b) is allowed, as you are not going outside the 10nm
d) may be allowed, provided certain other things are done (steady track, but this is not mentioned in this answer)
However as d) only states "originating in the zone", it is not as correct as b).
Remember with every CASA exam, it is NOT the right answer you are looking for, it is the MOST CORRECT.
Some questions, especially ones that ask "which is the most important consideration when..." will have more than one answer which is correct, but one is more important, or all the answers are wrong, but one is closer to being right than the others. As Chimbu said, it's all about comprehension.
You gotta love CASA questions....ATPL air law is even trickier....and they claim they don't try to trick you....Bullsh*t!
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It is a great example of how the psychs phrase the questions so you have to use logic and a grasp of english meaning instead of rote learning of the law.
The rote person looks for an answer with 10 Nm - because that is the limit specified in the air law text.
The logician comprehends that the key is "the flight does not proceed beyond" - and the number could have been anywhere from 1 to 10.
Simple in post mortem - not easy under exam pressure
The rote person looks for an answer with 10 Nm - because that is the limit specified in the air law text.
The logician comprehends that the key is "the flight does not proceed beyond" - and the number could have been anywhere from 1 to 10.
Simple in post mortem - not easy under exam pressure
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what i never seem to understand it WHY do they try to trick you up??
you have a good grasp off the subject, yet you fail because off stupit tricked up questions.
my worst subject was met. i passed the 5th go. I understood the subject inside out by then, yet kept failing due to the way they asked there questions and answers.
In my opinion they want us to be safe pilots who comprahent the subjects right? not te become a batchler in englisch language. (gee would i fail lol)
If we all were really bright sparks we would all been brain surgents and the like, and be home everynight to play with the kids and the missus (if she hasnt got a headage) and make ton's off money
cheers
you have a good grasp off the subject, yet you fail because off stupit tricked up questions.
my worst subject was met. i passed the 5th go. I understood the subject inside out by then, yet kept failing due to the way they asked there questions and answers.
In my opinion they want us to be safe pilots who comprahent the subjects right? not te become a batchler in englisch language. (gee would i fail lol)
If we all were really bright sparks we would all been brain surgents and the like, and be home everynight to play with the kids and the missus (if she hasnt got a headage) and make ton's off money
cheers
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Dude
I'm with you - to a point.
It's not so much a case of 'trick you up' as moving the question away from the wording of the rule to use in practice. That's probably fair.
But in support of your feeling, two things:
Much of the syllabus is stuff that seems to be boned up for the exam, then never used thereafter - so one questions its relevance.
and
The exam is written. The population is about one-third each visual, auditory, and kinesthetic as first preference for communication. So a written exam is right up the alley of only one-third of the population. The other two-thirds does it harder.
The gaps in the system are proven by the need to run seminars and issue flyers and institute extra training (Human factors etc) to cater for what was not taught or examined. As a result, the exam remains the key to actually commencing the learning
Lasio
Afterthought - I think APEC was a TRA with an embedded ACZ rather than an ADIZ as such.
I'm with you - to a point.
It's not so much a case of 'trick you up' as moving the question away from the wording of the rule to use in practice. That's probably fair.
But in support of your feeling, two things:
Much of the syllabus is stuff that seems to be boned up for the exam, then never used thereafter - so one questions its relevance.
and
The exam is written. The population is about one-third each visual, auditory, and kinesthetic as first preference for communication. So a written exam is right up the alley of only one-third of the population. The other two-thirds does it harder.
The gaps in the system are proven by the need to run seminars and issue flyers and institute extra training (Human factors etc) to cater for what was not taught or examined. As a result, the exam remains the key to actually commencing the learning
Lasio
Afterthought - I think APEC was a TRA with an embedded ACZ rather than an ADIZ as such.
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btw.. that question I posted was in the exam yesterday.
I only scored 78% and missed out by one mark. I found Bob Tait's Cyberexams more straight forward..
A little unlucky I guess and it's frustrating that I have to wait a month to sit the exam again....
I only scored 78% and missed out by one mark. I found Bob Tait's Cyberexams more straight forward..
A little unlucky I guess and it's frustrating that I have to wait a month to sit the exam again....
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Bob Tait's exams might be more straight forward.... shame when they're not the CASA exams!
I agree that some of the material is a bit esoteric, (studying omega and doppler nav for example...) and some of the questions rather badly worded. Unfortunately its just one of those things you have to try to get through.
James Michael, I agree about much of what you have said, however unfortunately the fact remains that the question in question could easily have been written in a way that makes comprehension easy, however it has not been written that way. I remember leaving my exams always thinking that the person who wrote the question was not a native English speaker.
I agree that some of the material is a bit esoteric, (studying omega and doppler nav for example...) and some of the questions rather badly worded. Unfortunately its just one of those things you have to try to get through.
James Michael, I agree about much of what you have said, however unfortunately the fact remains that the question in question could easily have been written in a way that makes comprehension easy, however it has not been written that way. I remember leaving my exams always thinking that the person who wrote the question was not a native English speaker.
He's not
But his English is pretty darn good. So good, that I wouldnt even think of trying to claim that questions are worded as they are because of the examiner's language ability. The questions are worded as they are, deliberately, and even though there may seem to be nasty tricks in them, its all quite straightforward as long as you remember to read the question.
Read all the question, too, not just the first part. And read all of all the answers.
But his English is pretty darn good. So good, that I wouldnt even think of trying to claim that questions are worded as they are because of the examiner's language ability. The questions are worded as they are, deliberately, and even though there may seem to be nasty tricks in them, its all quite straightforward as long as you remember to read the question.
Read all the question, too, not just the first part. And read all of all the answers.
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Lasiorhinus,
I would have to disagree in the strongest terms that the questions were, in fact, straightforward.
Four years ago the questions contained MANY grammatical (and even spelling) errors, and were, IMHO, an embarassment to CASA. I doubt they have improved.
You can ask the same question many ways, and unfortunately the one often chosen was the one that made the question ambiguous, and resulted in not examining the students knowledge, but also his ability to guess what the examiner was actually asking.
I would have to disagree in the strongest terms that the questions were, in fact, straightforward.
Four years ago the questions contained MANY grammatical (and even spelling) errors, and were, IMHO, an embarassment to CASA. I doubt they have improved.
You can ask the same question many ways, and unfortunately the one often chosen was the one that made the question ambiguous, and resulted in not examining the students knowledge, but also his ability to guess what the examiner was actually asking.
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Four years ago the questions contained MANY grammatical (and even spelling) errors, and were, IMHO, an embarassment to CASA. I doubt they have improved.