TTMRA and differences between rules
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TTMRA and differences between rules
Having converted my licence under the TTMRA and moved (home) to Australia earlier this year, I still at times find the odd difference in the rules that pops up and catches me by surprise. I notice now that Qlink want NZ candidates to have passed ATPL law and IREX (IFR) exams even though theres no regulatory requirement.
It would be nice if a differences manual of sorts was published, because its not easy to read through ALL of the rules and regulations when you know the vast majority of them, to find the few minor differences.
But ... that aint gonna happen, so I though it would be interesting to share and discuss here. Ive added a few to get started but Im really interested to see what others have noticed - and hope I havent missed anything major.
1. Departure call at class D aerodromes.
I find it really odd that I need to tell the tower where Im going, only a minute or so after he has cleared me and Ive read back that clearance. (VFR)
2. Route MSA is known as LSALT
Six of one and half a dozen of the other, but also note that there arent specified MEAs or MRAs, because its quite normal to not have navaid reception!
3. Definition of VMC
In NZ, within a CTR only 500ft vertical separation from cloud is required, but 1000ft in a CTA. In Australia its 1000ft in both. In Australia the vis required in class G is 5000m, even in the circuit of an uncontrolled aerodrome. Within the circuit in NZ 1500m is ok (but perhaps a little silly). Finally, special VFR is only allowed down to 3000m vis in OZ, as opposed to 1500m in NZ.
At least a TAF is a TAF - That won me a carton of beer in an argument with an instructor!
It would be nice if a differences manual of sorts was published, because its not easy to read through ALL of the rules and regulations when you know the vast majority of them, to find the few minor differences.
But ... that aint gonna happen, so I though it would be interesting to share and discuss here. Ive added a few to get started but Im really interested to see what others have noticed - and hope I havent missed anything major.
1. Departure call at class D aerodromes.
I find it really odd that I need to tell the tower where Im going, only a minute or so after he has cleared me and Ive read back that clearance. (VFR)
2. Route MSA is known as LSALT
Six of one and half a dozen of the other, but also note that there arent specified MEAs or MRAs, because its quite normal to not have navaid reception!
3. Definition of VMC
In NZ, within a CTR only 500ft vertical separation from cloud is required, but 1000ft in a CTA. In Australia its 1000ft in both. In Australia the vis required in class G is 5000m, even in the circuit of an uncontrolled aerodrome. Within the circuit in NZ 1500m is ok (but perhaps a little silly). Finally, special VFR is only allowed down to 3000m vis in OZ, as opposed to 1500m in NZ.
At least a TAF is a TAF - That won me a carton of beer in an argument with an instructor!
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Don't need to give tower POB and information received (alpha, bravo etc) when establishing contact after being handed over by approach, in Australia.
Rules regarding nominating IFR alternates different. Ditto for visual approaches. They amount to more or less the same thing, but worded and sometimes interpreted quite differently.
DGA approaches in Australia. DME steps in NZ. Manoeving within a DGA sector isn't commonly done in NZ.
MSA in Australia = minium sector altitude (25 nm or 10 nm). Equivalient to VORSEC charts in NZ. MSA = Minimum safe altitude in NZ (LSALT in Australia).
INTERs don't tend to get used in NZ.
Transition levels different.
That's just a few. Many to come..
Rules regarding nominating IFR alternates different. Ditto for visual approaches. They amount to more or less the same thing, but worded and sometimes interpreted quite differently.
DGA approaches in Australia. DME steps in NZ. Manoeving within a DGA sector isn't commonly done in NZ.
MSA in Australia = minium sector altitude (25 nm or 10 nm). Equivalient to VORSEC charts in NZ. MSA = Minimum safe altitude in NZ (LSALT in Australia).
INTERs don't tend to get used in NZ.
Transition levels different.
That's just a few. Many to come..
Last edited by skytops; 15th Aug 2008 at 08:28.
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Yep, I understand what arse ache it is too. There are lots of differences to ICAO here in OZ especially, but atleast the guys I work with are big enough to acknowledge it...
Theres too many to list here mate, you'll be finding them till you retire. I can understand Qlink requirements even if I dont quite agree. Thats what line training is for...
Good luck over here mate, youll enjoy it when youve been converted-like me!
Theres too many to list here mate, you'll be finding them till you retire. I can understand Qlink requirements even if I dont quite agree. Thats what line training is for...
Good luck over here mate, youll enjoy it when youve been converted-like me!
Here's a few I picked up:
- Cruising Levels East/West instead of North/South. Odds when heading east in Aus. Effective from 5000ft.
- QNH zones numbered not named.
- Radio Calls the same but different. For example, calling ACD prior to entering Controlled Airspace with details.
- Rules structured in CARs and CAOs, even more difficult to navigate than in NZ.
- Forced to fly 3 legs of the circuit, or join via a 5 mile final at uncontrolled aerodromes (no joining base). No overhead joins (instead mid-field crosswind).
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For example, calling ACD prior to entering Controlled Airspace with details.
Maybe a military thing, what happens at Willy town?
Thread Starter
Cheers everyone! Keep em coming.
You can say that again!
The most annoying thing was the blank look that you get from bosses - like you have just asked a really really stupid question, when one of these popped up.
The first month or two were hard, especially as an instructor expected to know everything, but Im starting to enjoy myself now!
Rules structured in CARs and CAOs, even more difficult to navigate than in NZ.
The most annoying thing was the blank look that you get from bosses - like you have just asked a really really stupid question, when one of these popped up.
The first month or two were hard, especially as an instructor expected to know everything, but Im starting to enjoy myself now!
Watch the medical differences between the two licences. The Australian CASA medicals allow reasonable colour blindness after the appropriate tests. The NZ medical people do not allow any colour blindness and in fact one Australian pilot received his NZ ATPL with the restriction Day VFR only!
Thread Starter
Skytops, (or anyone else that can answer)
Did you get DGA on your licence through the TTMRA?
It hasnt been put on my licence, but surely they dont expect me to maintain LSALT until I reach overhead my destination?
I really wish they would just print the DME steps on the maps!!
Surely the NZ and OZ procedures are close enough to allow conversion....
Did you get DGA on your licence through the TTMRA?
It hasnt been put on my licence, but surely they dont expect me to maintain LSALT until I reach overhead my destination?
I really wish they would just print the DME steps on the maps!!
Surely the NZ and OZ procedures are close enough to allow conversion....
Is this NZ or OZ? When I was up in Darwin you had to call ACD when VFR inbound, not done anywhere else in Oz that I know of!
Maybe a military thing, what happens at Willy town?
Maybe a military thing, what happens at Willy town?
Darwin and Tindal were interesting to first timers, however Tindal was only ever usually an MBZ (a little while ago now) when I used to fly in there from Darwin early in the morning.
The best ever "rack 'em, stack'em and spin 'em" award that I have ever seen definately goes to DN ATC. One aircraft inbound, another outbound at the same level - same IAS, stacked from the MSA to 10K wedged in between a wet season cell over the RWY and another cell not that far east of Howard Springs in 2005. They also had another stack spinning somewhere to the south as well. As the cells moved through and the RWY cleared the descent and circuit entry sequence was rapid and logical.
I could imagine nothing like that has ever happened at Williamtown, where they prefer to do approaches while in VMC (CAVOK actually) from the holding pattern above for the two aircraft established in it (2000 feet apart). Visual approach not available for the higher level aircraft...... It is painful - it could be so much better.
Sorry, Hugh did ask what happens at Williamtown.....
AUS/NZ rule differences? From what I understand there are quite a number of subtle differences between our countries rules. One that I understand is a headache for some is the rules for operation in the vicinity of an aerodrome (which aircraft will have right of way etc). Apparently they differ markedly.
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Yes, absolutely they expect you to maintain LSALT until overhead the aid, under radar control, conducting visual approach or conducting a GPS/DME arrival - for your own safety!
Actually no, they didn't give it to me through TTMRA. Its potentially a bit of a trap that one. I had to do a renewal to get it put on my CASA license. Agreed, it's similar to flying DME steps, but there are a few very important differences. They can all be sorted out quickly with a check flight with an ATO. LSALTs are generally a lot lower than in NZ so in a lot of cases its not such an issue. Not being able to do a DGA by day is not such a big issue. You can either do a visual approach, of if the weather is really bad then its probably easier doing a runway approach than a DGA anyway. Not having a DGA endorsement may make things unneccesarliy cumbersome at night, at times.
Actually no, they didn't give it to me through TTMRA. Its potentially a bit of a trap that one. I had to do a renewal to get it put on my CASA license. Agreed, it's similar to flying DME steps, but there are a few very important differences. They can all be sorted out quickly with a check flight with an ATO. LSALTs are generally a lot lower than in NZ so in a lot of cases its not such an issue. Not being able to do a DGA by day is not such a big issue. You can either do a visual approach, of if the weather is really bad then its probably easier doing a runway approach than a DGA anyway. Not having a DGA endorsement may make things unneccesarliy cumbersome at night, at times.
