Wyndham Aviation.....Charming? (Not)
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Bai, mi go long hap na kisim sampla samting.
Posts: 2,849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jamair, You are right of course, WE are a self determining people, Us Australians. Unfortunately, with things like NADOC, ATSIC, CDEP, Aboriginal Health services, The government building communities in the middle of nowhere without any form of sustainable economy for the inhabitants, special Aboriginal only courses in schools, Sorry Day, the reconciliation process, mining royalties on country supposed to be sacred, land rights......Etc, it is difficult to remember we are all supposed to be ONE people....Australians.
As a point of interest. Has anyone ever noticed that the people that claim how proud they are of their aboriginallity and culture, are usually more than 2/3 white, and yet are extremely racist and claim no part of their European heritage?. I can point to a whole town that meets that description...... actually, several.
As a point of interest. Has anyone ever noticed that the people that claim how proud they are of their aboriginallity and culture, are usually more than 2/3 white, and yet are extremely racist and claim no part of their European heritage?. I can point to a whole town that meets that description...... actually, several.
ATSIC
ATSIC = Aboriginals Talking Sh*t In Canberra. An Aboriginal told me that. Does the fact that i laughed make me a racist? 
I guess i'm just another "white enabler!" 
Cheers
I guess i'm just another "white enabler!" Cheers
Chief Wiggam and Jamair have absolutely nailed it.
Nice troll-up Sunfish, into your third page now you probably got more bites than you thought you would.
I cannot blame you for trying to hold (what you see as) the moral high ground on these issues as you know no differently, however I'll also have to be brutally honest with you that it is a similar non-comprehension of these issues in certain government departments (predominantly in capital cities) that has caused the current situation to date. Last years' "intervention" was a much needed exercise in many parts of the country. Dry Communities are fine as long as the gate is many hours drive from the community....
Sunfish I also cannot believe you would choose to whole-heartedly believe a newspaper story to be completely factual and not try and put some form of spin upon the story?
Nice troll-up Sunfish, into your third page now you probably got more bites than you thought you would.
I cannot blame you for trying to hold (what you see as) the moral high ground on these issues as you know no differently, however I'll also have to be brutally honest with you that it is a similar non-comprehension of these issues in certain government departments (predominantly in capital cities) that has caused the current situation to date. Last years' "intervention" was a much needed exercise in many parts of the country. Dry Communities are fine as long as the gate is many hours drive from the community....
Sunfish I also cannot believe you would choose to whole-heartedly believe a newspaper story to be completely factual and not try and put some form of spin upon the story?
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cairns
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dry means , dry on one side of the fence ... too often I've been in the back of a seatless troopy and seen a small mountain of cans then once through the fence .... nothing ... ah must be a dry one eh!. Walk out front - drink - walk back in.
Horatio Leafblower - I gave up trying to explain to family / friends in the city ... they just never get it. I remember a drive with a family member from Darwin to Broome ... by the time we hit Katherine their idea had changed from first hand experience ... I couldnt wait till we hit Halls crack and Fiddaroy.
Horatio Leafblower - I gave up trying to explain to family / friends in the city ... they just never get it. I remember a drive with a family member from Darwin to Broome ... by the time we hit Katherine their idea had changed from first hand experience ... I couldnt wait till we hit Halls crack and Fiddaroy.
Thread Starter
My gut feel is that from 1986 to 2001 the situation in many Aboriginal communities went from bad to worse. Doomadgee in 1986 had a general store that was usable by humans, drove through the place around 2001 and I wouldn't even consider stopping.
What also seems to have happened is that Kava and marijuana have made it into those places as well, in fact when I stayed at Cape Crawford, the pub and motel were the weirdest places I've ever seen, unfriendly, surly staff, strange people around who didn't "fit" even in the outback (like half a dozen Vietnamese) strange goings on at night, it took me years to realise that it was pretty obviously a drug distribution point or suchlike. Glad I only spent one night there.
As for the problem of youngsters driving 300kms to get a drink, I don't know what you can do about it except prohibit Abo's from being sold grog....but of course we are now too modern and enlightened to do that aren't we?
What also seems to have happened is that Kava and marijuana have made it into those places as well, in fact when I stayed at Cape Crawford, the pub and motel were the weirdest places I've ever seen, unfriendly, surly staff, strange people around who didn't "fit" even in the outback (like half a dozen Vietnamese) strange goings on at night, it took me years to realise that it was pretty obviously a drug distribution point or suchlike. Glad I only spent one night there.
As for the problem of youngsters driving 300kms to get a drink, I don't know what you can do about it except prohibit Abo's from being sold grog....but of course we are now too modern and enlightened to do that aren't we?
Maybe paying them their pension in food coupons isn’t out of the question. This way their kids would get properly fed and their women wouldn’t get bashed so often. Of course the bleeding hearts in the big cities would call this discrimination. I though would call it salvation.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That was a good read!
Do dry communities work?.......My opinion is no, It MAY reduce some beatings(I certainly hope!) but overall there are more rollovers to and from grog shops, the problem is removed outside of each dry community, get the grog, drink it on the way home, finish it off outside the dry area and return home to do...........
Intervention...pointless, Talking with community nurses over most of NT, the interveners have been doing exactly what the nurses have been doing, general check ups, very little more.
Flying grog into communities, if it is dry and you are caught the a/c will be grounded/confiscated(spelling?). if it is a wet community, the flight if chartered and flown legally is a flight done. The pilot should not be held accountable.
Have a read of "Grog Wars", written by an aboriginal about the booze problem and pubs in Tennant F Creek. One paragraph spells it out fairly clearly to me.
It goes along the line....White man brought grog to the black fella, it was not in our culture and we did not understand or know how to handle it. Our race is dying because of it! then in the same paragraph ...we have a right to drink like any Australian, so to be told that we aint allowed to drink is wrong,(this in responce to meetings by community and hotel owners suggesting that pubs be for white fellas only).
Flew into a community around 250nm SW of Alice many years ago with a tradesman, whilst there met some fantastic people, happy proud and just get on with life sort. The elders of that community and those around had decided to tell all the grog shops in the area that no grog was to be sold to black fellas. As far as I was concerned it had worked fairly well. Strong leadership from within the community is the way to start, finding it consistently may be somewhat difficult.
All the above is my opinion and information is from memory only.
And no I can't spell!
404,
Agree with food vouchers but as in Katherine the management of these and to which stores are approved is an issue. I personally think the idea is great
Do dry communities work?.......My opinion is no, It MAY reduce some beatings(I certainly hope!) but overall there are more rollovers to and from grog shops, the problem is removed outside of each dry community, get the grog, drink it on the way home, finish it off outside the dry area and return home to do...........
Intervention...pointless, Talking with community nurses over most of NT, the interveners have been doing exactly what the nurses have been doing, general check ups, very little more.
Flying grog into communities, if it is dry and you are caught the a/c will be grounded/confiscated(spelling?). if it is a wet community, the flight if chartered and flown legally is a flight done. The pilot should not be held accountable.
Have a read of "Grog Wars", written by an aboriginal about the booze problem and pubs in Tennant F Creek. One paragraph spells it out fairly clearly to me.
It goes along the line....White man brought grog to the black fella, it was not in our culture and we did not understand or know how to handle it. Our race is dying because of it! then in the same paragraph ...we have a right to drink like any Australian, so to be told that we aint allowed to drink is wrong,(this in responce to meetings by community and hotel owners suggesting that pubs be for white fellas only).
Flew into a community around 250nm SW of Alice many years ago with a tradesman, whilst there met some fantastic people, happy proud and just get on with life sort. The elders of that community and those around had decided to tell all the grog shops in the area that no grog was to be sold to black fellas. As far as I was concerned it had worked fairly well. Strong leadership from within the community is the way to start, finding it consistently may be somewhat difficult.
All the above is my opinion and information is from memory only.
And no I can't spell!
404,
Agree with food vouchers but as in Katherine the management of these and to which stores are approved is an issue. I personally think the idea is great
Moderator
Food vouchers
When I was in the Channel Islands and running a supermarket there was a system of parish relief food vouchers (there was no welfare system there) for some of the sad old local "tramps", they had to go to the parish to justify getting the vouchers every fortnight, it wasn't automatically given out ... often it meant was that they turned to stealing the booze instead. Easy to catch, they didn't run real fast, they then got sent for a stint in jail where at least they got a bed and some food before getting out, back to the meths in the cardboard box in the multi storey car park and the whole cycle began again..sound familiar?
So food vouchers are only part of the answer, certainly better than just dishing out "Welfare"...that would be like going full circle to the days before the "sit down money" and admitting that might not have been such a good idea after all...?
So food vouchers are only part of the answer, certainly better than just dishing out "Welfare"...that would be like going full circle to the days before the "sit down money" and admitting that might not have been such a good idea after all...?
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 42
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How's Clear Prop going ? Margaret still chasing for child support ?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: ˙ǝqɐq ǝɯ ʇ,uıɐ ʇɐɥʇ 'sɔıʇɐqoɹǝɐ ɹoɟ uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯɐu ɹıǝɥʇ ʇnd ǝɯos
Age: 45
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What now
How's Clear Prop going ?
To join in on the great debate: I never felt guilt but I certainly felt compassion. Maybe I should make up for some bad karma and fly bibles into North Korea... or would that be just as evil???
Hey Capn, Get in dat green Ord Air and bring 'em low
~FRQ CB
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Land of Oz
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sound's like nothing as changed!
Maxgrad
You're absolutely right about the leadership in the community. When I was flying around the NT out of DN, there was a lovely little community just to the left of the Darwin-Port Keats track, I think it was called Pularumpa (or something like that). I seem to remember it was a "wet" community, but what a great little spot. I used to be met at the strip by several locals to see if I needed a hand with freight etc. The town was lovely with the locals so proud of the veges they were growing etc. Quite a stark contrast to Port Keats, where I went to deliver an occupied coffin only to spend 2 hours trying to find someone to accept the "frieght". In the end the local coppers took the cask. No family, friends or other!
As for the practice of keeping cards etc...it was standard practice for the owner to come in at 6am and start swiping cards. He had around 3 or 4 of those business card booklets, I guess somewhere between 100-200 cards. It was common practice for the "clients" to tell the bank they lost their card, get it reissued and then spend it on grog and therefore not able to buy flights or food for their family.
Interestingly, I took some govt reps up to BTI for a meeting with the elders around 2001 of which I sat in on (it was an open-air meeting). The gist of the meeting was that the community wanted MORE funding to combat the highest rates of teenage suicide, domestic violence and drug addiction per head of population in the country. That BTI was already the highest funded community per head of population (by a long shot) for all these problems went completely over the heads of the elders and their lawyers.
Try asking any community storeholder to explain "stock shrinkage" to you. The reasons are tragic and unfair for all parties.
And finally, what a fantastic little place Nardidi is. A wet community just over the river from Wadeye (a "dry one). Often when I landed there the prop hadn't even stopped and the back door was opened to unload the precious cargo of 34 slabs of green can and a couplda baaarunga reedge for da lehdies (in the nose locker).
These are all experiences. Some you like, some you don't like, but they all come together to give you character.
Enough rambling...bed is calling.
You're absolutely right about the leadership in the community. When I was flying around the NT out of DN, there was a lovely little community just to the left of the Darwin-Port Keats track, I think it was called Pularumpa (or something like that). I seem to remember it was a "wet" community, but what a great little spot. I used to be met at the strip by several locals to see if I needed a hand with freight etc. The town was lovely with the locals so proud of the veges they were growing etc. Quite a stark contrast to Port Keats, where I went to deliver an occupied coffin only to spend 2 hours trying to find someone to accept the "frieght". In the end the local coppers took the cask. No family, friends or other!
As for the practice of keeping cards etc...it was standard practice for the owner to come in at 6am and start swiping cards. He had around 3 or 4 of those business card booklets, I guess somewhere between 100-200 cards. It was common practice for the "clients" to tell the bank they lost their card, get it reissued and then spend it on grog and therefore not able to buy flights or food for their family.
Interestingly, I took some govt reps up to BTI for a meeting with the elders around 2001 of which I sat in on (it was an open-air meeting). The gist of the meeting was that the community wanted MORE funding to combat the highest rates of teenage suicide, domestic violence and drug addiction per head of population in the country. That BTI was already the highest funded community per head of population (by a long shot) for all these problems went completely over the heads of the elders and their lawyers.
Try asking any community storeholder to explain "stock shrinkage" to you. The reasons are tragic and unfair for all parties.
And finally, what a fantastic little place Nardidi is. A wet community just over the river from Wadeye (a "dry one). Often when I landed there the prop hadn't even stopped and the back door was opened to unload the precious cargo of 34 slabs of green can and a couplda baaarunga reedge for da lehdies (in the nose locker).
These are all experiences. Some you like, some you don't like, but they all come together to give you character.
Enough rambling...bed is calling.
favourite Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Left of reality.
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wyndham
Dear fellow Brethreron
Maxine Reid (formally) Ord Air must be laughing her *ss off at this.
Wyndham !!!! Wyndham. And will never change.
This has become a debate over non ??? DRY communitys and a social conciousness about importing - thats what we are doing, - grog, gunga, etc into socially disrupted communitys.
Take a hard look at Oenpelli, or the Cape.
So what.
If pilots are so intersested in hour building, and don,t see the destruction.
Then so be it. Some have morality. Others fly drunks.
The key card debate is an issue.
If you had a gambling problem, the best thing to do is hand over that responsibility to someone else.? If you have a drug or alcohol problem.?
Why wouldn,t you relent, and hand over controll to get home and sober up.?
Just my two cents worth.
Don,t know much.
Regards
Multi
Maxine Reid (formally) Ord Air must be laughing her *ss off at this.
Wyndham !!!! Wyndham. And will never change.
This has become a debate over non ??? DRY communitys and a social conciousness about importing - thats what we are doing, - grog, gunga, etc into socially disrupted communitys.
Take a hard look at Oenpelli, or the Cape.
So what.
If pilots are so intersested in hour building, and don,t see the destruction.
Then so be it. Some have morality. Others fly drunks.
The key card debate is an issue.
If you had a gambling problem, the best thing to do is hand over that responsibility to someone else.? If you have a drug or alcohol problem.?
Why wouldn,t you relent, and hand over controll to get home and sober up.?
Just my two cents worth.
Don,t know much.
Regards
Multi