Fast track to CPL in Australia
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Question to Fastrack students.
I lived in Perth for a few years and just wondered if you ever flew in conditoins other that clear blue sky? I ask because your finished in 22 weeks so how do you get experience in varied weather?
Has a "sausage factory" feel about it to me. Why do you have to be done in 22 weeks? Is it really going to damage your chance of employment if you take 12 months to do it and maybe retain some knowledge from those CPL exams you did? If your cramming that much info into your head in such a short space of time, I'd say alot of it will get lost.
My 85K got me a CPL, MECIR, tailwheel and aero's etc to boot. Flew in all sorts of weather and didn't feel like I was force fed.
How much did you spend before Skippers took you on?
Has a "sausage factory" feel about it to me. Why do you have to be done in 22 weeks? Is it really going to damage your chance of employment if you take 12 months to do it and maybe retain some knowledge from those CPL exams you did? If your cramming that much info into your head in such a short space of time, I'd say alot of it will get lost.
My 85K got me a CPL, MECIR, tailwheel and aero's etc to boot. Flew in all sorts of weather and didn't feel like I was force fed.
How much did you spend before Skippers took you on?
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This is my first time on pprune
I am also looking at doing the fast track course and can see many benefits
I must say there is a lot of agro on this thread. You guys are scaring me.
Surely with all the pilot jobs out there and the lack of pilots there is room for all types of training.
I am also looking at doing the fast track course and can see many benefits
I must say there is a lot of agro on this thread. You guys are scaring me.
Surely with all the pilot jobs out there and the lack of pilots there is room for all types of training.
Join Date: Nov 2006
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If people do a search through the threads this school has come up many times. It has been self promoting itself many times, and there are signs its happening all over again! Smoke and mirrors!
If this thread is genuine Listen to what Morno, The Jock and The Wiggum have to say.
In aviation quick and easy is never that!
If this thread is genuine Listen to what Morno, The Jock and The Wiggum have to say.
In aviation quick and easy is never that!
Thread Starter
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Hi Ausflying
I posted the original question-funny its my first post and funny I am asking how to start
FYI I had 23 years with Qantas starting as a 16 year old apprentice amd ending up as a cabin crew manager retired at 39 I have managed a hotel on the Gold Coast for 2 years and have **** loads of money and want to learn to fly.
Forum are either informative - as this has been to me up to this point - or full of people wanting to swipe at everyone
You choose your own path just like I did but get your facts straight
- A zero hours person wanting information
I posted the original question-funny its my first post and funny I am asking how to start
FYI I had 23 years with Qantas starting as a 16 year old apprentice amd ending up as a cabin crew manager retired at 39 I have managed a hotel on the Gold Coast for 2 years and have **** loads of money and want to learn to fly.
Forum are either informative - as this has been to me up to this point - or full of people wanting to swipe at everyone
You choose your own path just like I did but get your facts straight
- A zero hours person wanting information
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I have seen the Fast Track product (students) first hand post CPL. About 8 or so I think so far. Some are good, some are not. I believe it comes down to motivation. It is not enough to say "I think I will be a pilot, that is a cool job!" Those who are not good enough don't pass. Same as everywhere else I suppose.
The person running Fast Track gives the students a very "rosy" picture of their abilities / prospects. Add to that some youthful overconfidence and lack of tact of some individuals and you have a situation where a newly qualified pilot could annoy many an crusty old salt of a Captain. Experience will be the great leveller, and the Fast Track pilots will end up OK in the end.
The more important issue is: are there sufficient experienced Captains to mentor these guys/gals through their first couple of years?
Z.
The person running Fast Track gives the students a very "rosy" picture of their abilities / prospects. Add to that some youthful overconfidence and lack of tact of some individuals and you have a situation where a newly qualified pilot could annoy many an crusty old salt of a Captain. Experience will be the great leveller, and the Fast Track pilots will end up OK in the end.
The more important issue is: are there sufficient experienced Captains to mentor these guys/gals through their first couple of years?
Z.
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Ausflying, xfsd wasn't picking you out! He was referring to the other single posters coming to the rescue! And there has been many threads here trying to advertise this outfit!
There have been 1 or 2 f/o's that have been ok. Like I have posted previously they are F/o's for life!
Zhaadum also brings up a very critical point! Not many Captains around with experience in babysitting! I will try not to bring up a certain incident lately that had been mentioned on other threads.
There have been 1 or 2 f/o's that have been ok. Like I have posted previously they are F/o's for life!
Zhaadum also brings up a very critical point! Not many Captains around with experience in babysitting! I will try not to bring up a certain incident lately that had been mentioned on other threads.
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I suggest that before taking menopauses advice they read his post history. Of his current 23 posts only 4 are directly unrelated to giving a plug to this establishment. Including this little gem....
or this
Oh yeah theres plenty of smoke around the mirrors tonight! 
The word is out that a new school in western australia called fast track pilot training is getting CPL's trained in 16 to 20 weeks and their pilots are going straight into airline jobs. I saw their website at
http://www.ftpilottraining.com
Does anyone else have any first hand knowledge of this mob???
Are they actually achieving this. Sounds too good to be true???
http://www.ftpilottraining.com
Does anyone else have any first hand knowledge of this mob???
Are they actually achieving this. Sounds too good to be true???
There have been some threads recently about another mob who get you trained much quicker with the same outcome.
http://www.ftpilottraining.com/index.html
http://www.ftpilottraining.com/index.html
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Good day to everyone. I recently finished my cpl+me-ir. It took about a year for me to finish off. There was a LOT of time spent on the ground, dealing with aircraft unserviceabilities, weather etc.... However, the time spend on the ground, was in retrospect, invaluable. I had time to actually read other material rather than the ATC/BOB TAIT books, which allow one to pass the CASA exams, but are by no means exhaustive on the subjects of aviation. There is a ton of information to learn and a million things to read. I wonder when the fast track fellows have time to do anything else.
Another important thing about staying on the ground for longer than 2 minutes is the opportunity to reflect on a lesson, and perhaps better prepare for the next one. The hardest part of my course was the IFR component. I realized that to have a productive flight, I required the good part of a day to plan and prepare. Every sim required atleast 3-4 hours of prep. I just don't understand how knowledgeable pilots are being trained in 18-22 weeks! I have meet several pilots who have completed their training in this time frame, and unfortunately they have absolutely no clue.
Perhaps fast track has discovered a way. If the most important aspect of flight training is the time frame for completion, then I think that priorities need to be thought over again.
The rush to get to into the right hand seat is a bit worrying. Training seems to be more an obstacle rather than a part of getting a job with an airline. I myself am an Indian, and am also looking towards joining an airline in the near future. If I had an option, then i would have loved to become an instructor and gain some more experience before trying for a charter job. There is however, very little scope in GA in India. I have learned much from my instructors. Strangely enough, I will probably fly in an airline much before they ever will. I am however, none the better for it. Everyone seems to complain a lot about GA, but I think all Australians should respect it a lot more, and be grateful that they have a means of gaining and earning their experience.
I think everyone who goes through a fast track program is missing out on a lot. It isn't all only about logging hours as quickly as possible.
Another important thing about staying on the ground for longer than 2 minutes is the opportunity to reflect on a lesson, and perhaps better prepare for the next one. The hardest part of my course was the IFR component. I realized that to have a productive flight, I required the good part of a day to plan and prepare. Every sim required atleast 3-4 hours of prep. I just don't understand how knowledgeable pilots are being trained in 18-22 weeks! I have meet several pilots who have completed their training in this time frame, and unfortunately they have absolutely no clue.
Perhaps fast track has discovered a way. If the most important aspect of flight training is the time frame for completion, then I think that priorities need to be thought over again.
The rush to get to into the right hand seat is a bit worrying. Training seems to be more an obstacle rather than a part of getting a job with an airline. I myself am an Indian, and am also looking towards joining an airline in the near future. If I had an option, then i would have loved to become an instructor and gain some more experience before trying for a charter job. There is however, very little scope in GA in India. I have learned much from my instructors. Strangely enough, I will probably fly in an airline much before they ever will. I am however, none the better for it. Everyone seems to complain a lot about GA, but I think all Australians should respect it a lot more, and be grateful that they have a means of gaining and earning their experience.
I think everyone who goes through a fast track program is missing out on a lot. It isn't all only about logging hours as quickly as possible.
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What aircraft do these fast track companies use?
My concern would be flying with a fast track pilot who has no emergency manoeuvre training.
Just how much training in Spinning / UAs etc does a fast track course provide?
Stretch
My concern would be flying with a fast track pilot who has no emergency manoeuvre training.
Just how much training in Spinning / UAs etc does a fast track course provide?
Stretch
Last edited by Stretch06; 29th Apr 2008 at 01:30.
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Just how much training in Spinning / UAs etc does a fast track course provide?
Its ‘Fast Track’ remember, not the ‘Right Track’.
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Hope others feel safe flying with a Captain who has no idea about anything other then S+L flight....
I think more should be done in training with regards to emergency handling. I think Spinning training should be a mandatory part of the syllabus not just for fast track but or all training. (Just my 2c)
Not to mention it’s as fun as all hell.....
Stretch
I think more should be done in training with regards to emergency handling. I think Spinning training should be a mandatory part of the syllabus not just for fast track but or all training. (Just my 2c)
Not to mention it’s as fun as all hell.....
Stretch
Last edited by Stretch06; 29th Apr 2008 at 03:55. Reason: Spelling
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talking to some of the former guys from the course, they said that it cost 70k+exams + 35-40k for a Metro endo.Now the course has gone up to 90k+exams etc + 35-40k endo cost.
So 130k to get a job and miss out on all the fun of training by normal paste and standard.No thanks.
Apparently they use new jabirus with glass cockpit and CSU/retract in an Archer then off to ad-astral for twin ifr.
They told me that skip*ers has the right to tell them to F off after 12 months as that's what the schools offer actually is.Not a job but 12months internship and then if they wanna keep you they will.
btw, they LOVE their jobs tho.
cheers
So 130k to get a job and miss out on all the fun of training by normal paste and standard.No thanks.
Apparently they use new jabirus with glass cockpit and CSU/retract in an Archer then off to ad-astral for twin ifr.
They told me that skip*ers has the right to tell them to F off after 12 months as that's what the schools offer actually is.Not a job but 12months internship and then if they wanna keep you they will.
btw, they LOVE their jobs tho.
cheers
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ok let me try again.
I am 18 and live in victoria and am looking at the fast track school in melbourne where they have some students training.
I believe the course is the same CASA syllabus course as all the other schools offer.
Fast Track just say they are more efficient so will get me through the course quicker than everyone else.
I understand weather is a problem in melbourne but they say I can move to their school in Brisbane to finish my flying because the weather is fine there now.
The people I have spoken to seem to be above board and they tell me that I will have to pay for my endorsements with one of the airlines but I wont with others they get pilots into.
I would like comments from anyone who has done the course or who is doing it to see if this really is the case.
Thanks
I am 18 and live in victoria and am looking at the fast track school in melbourne where they have some students training.
I believe the course is the same CASA syllabus course as all the other schools offer.
Fast Track just say they are more efficient so will get me through the course quicker than everyone else.
I understand weather is a problem in melbourne but they say I can move to their school in Brisbane to finish my flying because the weather is fine there now.
The people I have spoken to seem to be above board and they tell me that I will have to pay for my endorsements with one of the airlines but I wont with others they get pilots into.
I would like comments from anyone who has done the course or who is doing it to see if this really is the case.
Thanks
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I'd be very wary of buying into any sales pitch from the salesrep that runs the course. As mentioned before, the guy is a smoke and mirrors operator through and through. The guys and girls I know (all good people) who have done or are doing the course have unfortunately bought into the myth that actual command experience is not required for a career in aviation, which strikes me as opportunistic at best, and dangerous at worst. Not to mention paying $80+K for something they could just as easily get for $50-$60K (with more command time). After extensively seeing this guy in operation, I would not recommend the course.
Don't be fooled, the FT course is essentially only a mediocre software based theory course tacked on to flying training that takes place in flying schools that are not actually any part of the FT company, who have been hamstrung by FTs inability to see reasonable solutions to the problems with the course. Be wary of this middle man who takes his cut, and adds it to the total cost of the flight training, providing very little in return that couldn't be gotten through regular channels. Most of the FT students I've met are still using Bob Tait/ATC to pass their exams.
Personally, once I finish my CPL I am very keen to do the GA flying that some people have knocked. I think that the experience to make command decisions from the planning stage through to engine shut down will be invaluable, regardless of my career path. An analogy for the FT course might be like getting your driver's license overnight, then spending the next few years as a back seat driver in a truck, and then thinking you have the knowledge and experience to drive the truck yourself.
After saying that though, you get out what you put in. I've seen some well regarded pilots come out of sausage factories, and some quite ordinary pilots come out of reputable schools. Much of it comes down to attitude, and a readiness to watch, listen, learn and absorb. But taking "too good to be true" shortcuts can really narrow the odds of actually getting anything useful out of a course and a career.
I rarely post here, but I felt compelled to add my two cents to this thread. At the end of the day, all that glitters is not gold.
Don't be fooled, the FT course is essentially only a mediocre software based theory course tacked on to flying training that takes place in flying schools that are not actually any part of the FT company, who have been hamstrung by FTs inability to see reasonable solutions to the problems with the course. Be wary of this middle man who takes his cut, and adds it to the total cost of the flight training, providing very little in return that couldn't be gotten through regular channels. Most of the FT students I've met are still using Bob Tait/ATC to pass their exams.
Personally, once I finish my CPL I am very keen to do the GA flying that some people have knocked. I think that the experience to make command decisions from the planning stage through to engine shut down will be invaluable, regardless of my career path. An analogy for the FT course might be like getting your driver's license overnight, then spending the next few years as a back seat driver in a truck, and then thinking you have the knowledge and experience to drive the truck yourself.
After saying that though, you get out what you put in. I've seen some well regarded pilots come out of sausage factories, and some quite ordinary pilots come out of reputable schools. Much of it comes down to attitude, and a readiness to watch, listen, learn and absorb. But taking "too good to be true" shortcuts can really narrow the odds of actually getting anything useful out of a course and a career.
I rarely post here, but I felt compelled to add my two cents to this thread. At the end of the day, all that glitters is not gold.
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Thank you Magarnagle for the info.
Your description of the way the course works certainly answers a few questions I had.
I'm hoping to get a CPL this year (I assume it will take at least a year - the prospect of studying full time is diminishing with my bank balance), and if all goes to plan I look forward to a (probably long) stint in GA. However, I am footloose and fancy free, and I can see reasons why others may want to get straight into a different gig.
Back to the point; there are plenty of threads on these forums where various people discuss the values of various schools. I can think of two common pieces of advice that pop up everywhere; don't pay for anything in advance, and visit the school personally to see what you think.
I have visited schools in Canada, the US and Australia in this regard, and the experience has been excellent (I was travelling anyway, it wasn't a special trip for the purpose). If FTPT is an online theory course (without a base to visit) which you pay for up front, joining up would seem to disregard both these gems at once.
I will not pretend I know anything about the industry or this course and admit I have a non-aviation background. But I think this thread demonstrates that close inspection of any potential school or course BEYOND the realm of your desktop would be beneficial.
If FTPT do read these threads, do they care to comment for themselves? We are all interested in how the course works. I will contact them myself also, and come back to the forum if I hear anything.
Your description of the way the course works certainly answers a few questions I had.
I'm hoping to get a CPL this year (I assume it will take at least a year - the prospect of studying full time is diminishing with my bank balance), and if all goes to plan I look forward to a (probably long) stint in GA. However, I am footloose and fancy free, and I can see reasons why others may want to get straight into a different gig.
Back to the point; there are plenty of threads on these forums where various people discuss the values of various schools. I can think of two common pieces of advice that pop up everywhere; don't pay for anything in advance, and visit the school personally to see what you think.
I have visited schools in Canada, the US and Australia in this regard, and the experience has been excellent (I was travelling anyway, it wasn't a special trip for the purpose). If FTPT is an online theory course (without a base to visit) which you pay for up front, joining up would seem to disregard both these gems at once.
I will not pretend I know anything about the industry or this course and admit I have a non-aviation background. But I think this thread demonstrates that close inspection of any potential school or course BEYOND the realm of your desktop would be beneficial.
If FTPT do read these threads, do they care to comment for themselves? We are all interested in how the course works. I will contact them myself also, and come back to the forum if I hear anything.