Jetstar pay rise. Is it enough?
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Jetstar pay rise. Is it enough?
Jetstar Brands achieved a PBT of $113.4 million, nearly a four fold increase on the comparative
half-year result of $24.5 million. Passenger revenue increased by $249.9 million or 53.6 per
cent, largely driven by a 62.9 per cent increase in capacity, arising from the continued
expansion of the Jetstar International network. Despite the significant capacity increase, seat
factor was largely maintained decreasing only 0.1 percentage point to 78.6 per cent while yields
reduced by 5.6 per cent.
Be careful folks. Looks like your worth more.
half-year result of $24.5 million. Passenger revenue increased by $249.9 million or 53.6 per
cent, largely driven by a 62.9 per cent increase in capacity, arising from the continued
expansion of the Jetstar International network. Despite the significant capacity increase, seat
factor was largely maintained decreasing only 0.1 percentage point to 78.6 per cent while yields
reduced by 5.6 per cent.
Be careful folks. Looks like your worth more.
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Be careful folks. Looks like your worth more.
We should all be thankful that airline managements have longer memories than the average PPRUNER. In future years it will be shown that airlines are today enjoying quite possibly their most profitable period ever.
They are "making hay while the sun shines", but this period of record profits, unlike salary levels, is not permanent.
If you are one of the pilots referred to by this poster, and you get to retain your job after the inevitable downturn has set in, you will have the long-sightedness of your management to thank.
Fine................then PAY A BIG BONUS WHEN TIMES ARE GOOD
see that's fixed.
Now we're all happy.
NO MORE CRAP EXCUSES PLEASE......... Share the good fortune around a bit.
see that's fixed.
Now we're all happy.NO MORE CRAP EXCUSES PLEASE......... Share the good fortune around a bit.
aircraft, I hope your profile is incorrect.
Nevermind onto the ignore list you go again.
Nevermind onto the ignore list you go again.
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...tee hee...long-sighted airline managers...PLEASE!!
Fortunately I suspect aircraft2's post was so blatantly stupid it was an intentional wind-up, nobody could be that naieve. These long-sighted managers of course have been adept in awarding themselves massive payrises whilst demanding all else take effective cuts.
Juan Trippe, Reg Ansett maybe but today? The only thing these walking egos see in the future is shareholder return in perhaps 4 months and thus their own CV 's and wallets being padded.
Dear Pilots, NOW is the time to attain improvements to the shocking T&C's Jetstar and their ilk imposed when there were too many pilots.
Now there aren't enough pilots, the reverse must apply.
Pay Jetstar pilots the same as Qantas pilots for flying the same equipment. And while we're at it, pay the QF pilots more too.
Fortunately I suspect aircraft2's post was so blatantly stupid it was an intentional wind-up, nobody could be that naieve. These long-sighted managers of course have been adept in awarding themselves massive payrises whilst demanding all else take effective cuts.
Juan Trippe, Reg Ansett maybe but today? The only thing these walking egos see in the future is shareholder return in perhaps 4 months and thus their own CV 's and wallets being padded.
Dear Pilots, NOW is the time to attain improvements to the shocking T&C's Jetstar and their ilk imposed when there were too many pilots.
Now there aren't enough pilots, the reverse must apply.
Pay Jetstar pilots the same as Qantas pilots for flying the same equipment. And while we're at it, pay the QF pilots more too.
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I wonder if PPRUNE's server is big enough to handle 'aircrafts mark2's' being added to almost everybody's ignore list?
Often a 'mark 2' of anything is an improved version, obviously not in this case !
I tend just to ignore the likes of him anyway, the more you comment the more you feed this guy. Like an obnoxious plant, starve it & even a weed dies !
CW
Often a 'mark 2' of anything is an improved version, obviously not in this case !
I tend just to ignore the likes of him anyway, the more you comment the more you feed this guy. Like an obnoxious plant, starve it & even a weed dies !
CW
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So ACFT Mk2 - The companies are allowed to make hay while the sun shines but the employees aren't?
When the downturn comes and a whole heap of guys are out on the street, I am sure they will be saying to theselves "Well look I'm glad I didn't get a share of those good years in 2007-10, if I was paid more back then other people might now be unemplyed like me".
When the downturn comes and a whole heap of guys are out on the street, I am sure they will be saying to theselves "Well look I'm glad I didn't get a share of those good years in 2007-10, if I was paid more back then other people might now be unemplyed like me".
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Bendo,
Of course pilots are allowed to "make hay while the sun shines", or try to.
But the way they are going about it is unlikely to be successful. This is because, fundamentally, salary levels are generally permanent whereas sunshine isn't.
Which airline will give salary rises on the strength of a few years profitability knowing that, when the profitability disappears, the salaries will remain at their elevated levels? Answer: none.
Instead of fixed salaries, if the pilots had negotiated remuneration linked to company financial performance, then they would now be making hay.
Airlines would like nothing more than for ALL staff to be on such performance based pay as this makes the company much more resiliant to downturns. But most workers (and unions) are not comfortable with this kind of remuneration and prefer a predictable and constant income.
It seems to me that some pilots want the fixed salary levels, with increases in good times but without the corresponding decreases when times aren't so good - utterly absurd and with no chance of success.
Of course pilots are allowed to "make hay while the sun shines", or try to.
But the way they are going about it is unlikely to be successful. This is because, fundamentally, salary levels are generally permanent whereas sunshine isn't.
Which airline will give salary rises on the strength of a few years profitability knowing that, when the profitability disappears, the salaries will remain at their elevated levels? Answer: none.
Instead of fixed salaries, if the pilots had negotiated remuneration linked to company financial performance, then they would now be making hay.
Airlines would like nothing more than for ALL staff to be on such performance based pay as this makes the company much more resiliant to downturns. But most workers (and unions) are not comfortable with this kind of remuneration and prefer a predictable and constant income.
It seems to me that some pilots want the fixed salary levels, with increases in good times but without the corresponding decreases when times aren't so good - utterly absurd and with no chance of success.
Grandpa Aerotart
Like the big pay cuts the CEOs get when times are bad, or they **** up horribly, then.
The only way you'll be able to tell if the J* T&Cs are enough is if they manage to crew the expansion...if they struggle pay will go up again...if not it won't.
That is the bottom line for supply v demand. Note J* has not got close to removing 'pay for play' yet. When they get down to bonding for training and hiring kids with 500 hrs you might assume a real pilot shortage exists.
Even at that point don't expect FO pay to rise...captain pay on the other hand, and training captain particularly, may well increase dramatically under those circumstances.
The big hole in the pilot shortage theory, as it applies to J*, is that it doesn't take into account the 1000s of Australian pilots working overseas...many of whom are sick to death of it and want to come home.
That is why you see substantial pay rises in operations like coastwatch and the regionals but not, yet, in VB/J* etc. Enough pilots are leaving the regionals and enough pilots are coming home from OS.
The only way you'll be able to tell if the J* T&Cs are enough is if they manage to crew the expansion...if they struggle pay will go up again...if not it won't.
That is the bottom line for supply v demand. Note J* has not got close to removing 'pay for play' yet. When they get down to bonding for training and hiring kids with 500 hrs you might assume a real pilot shortage exists.
Even at that point don't expect FO pay to rise...captain pay on the other hand, and training captain particularly, may well increase dramatically under those circumstances.
The big hole in the pilot shortage theory, as it applies to J*, is that it doesn't take into account the 1000s of Australian pilots working overseas...many of whom are sick to death of it and want to come home.
That is why you see substantial pay rises in operations like coastwatch and the regionals but not, yet, in VB/J* etc. Enough pilots are leaving the regionals and enough pilots are coming home from OS.
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aircraft - go study up on your economics
Jeeze the amount of mindless dribble that you spout is unbearable aircraft
Are you basing your BS on the one economics lecture you sat in on five years ago? Maybe you want to grab a copy of Economics For Dummies, seems you're the target audience personified
Basing a significant portion of someone's pay (i.e. monthly or at least quarterly fixed and variable salary) on profits, sales, or such like, only makes sense if a) that person's fixed income is big enough to handle normal outgoings like mortgage, bills, etc., and b) if that person actually has any control over the performance indicators that pay is based on. That then gives that person a motivation to outperform targets, and the security that if sales/performance are down across the industry, he or she will still be able to keep the house and feed the family.
Neither a) nor b) are the case for the majority of pilots (let's for a moment not look at the few 150+k captains). These deals were made for management and sales staff, they are very rare anywhere in the world for for operational roles like cabin or flight crew.
Now bonuses is a completely different thing, and there it makes sense to tie those payments to the performance of the company: if the year was good, everybody profits, if not, there is less or nothing to share. But bonuses in most industries apart from banking rarely account for large parts of the common employee's income, so they're a sweetener when all stakeholders can afford it and that's it!
Now the actual topic here is supply and demand, another topic you'll find is covered in Economics for Dummies. Global demand for pilots is going up, consequently the price for pilot labour must go up. No point to discuss any ifs or buts, it always happens, the question is just by how much, and that depends on the bargaining powers to be -- hence the need for every participant of the economy to monitor prices of their labour or of the labour they employ, and to act and react as appropriate.
Rex and other stubborn companies who're not great economists it seems, are losing pilots as their price goes up and they don't put their renumeration up. Large airlines actually employ economists to know exactly where the market price for the labour they employ is.
Draw your own conclusions, pilots, I would say ask your union what their economists are saying, and demand 5% more so you end up getting paid the actual market price.
The argument that down the line airlines won't be able to afforg higher salaries is utter dross too, read up on price elasticity of demand if you will. Air travel has increased globally even with oil prices rising to 100 US a barrel, and even 20-30% increases in pilot wages will not change that global long term trend.
Aircraft, unless you have something of substance to say and you can back it up with facts and logical arguments, please stop wasting everyone's time and honour the age-old Roman truth: "If you had kept quiet, people would still think you are intelligent."
You come across as one of those brown-nosing middle management types
who are shuffling files around, but don't really understand much about their industry or for that matter anything much at all, and I think it's fair to say that by the responses you're getting here, the majority of people in your industry find your insistence on (usually ill-chosen) management mantras utterly annoying.
Are you basing your BS on the one economics lecture you sat in on five years ago? Maybe you want to grab a copy of Economics For Dummies, seems you're the target audience personified
Basing a significant portion of someone's pay (i.e. monthly or at least quarterly fixed and variable salary) on profits, sales, or such like, only makes sense if a) that person's fixed income is big enough to handle normal outgoings like mortgage, bills, etc., and b) if that person actually has any control over the performance indicators that pay is based on. That then gives that person a motivation to outperform targets, and the security that if sales/performance are down across the industry, he or she will still be able to keep the house and feed the family.
Neither a) nor b) are the case for the majority of pilots (let's for a moment not look at the few 150+k captains). These deals were made for management and sales staff, they are very rare anywhere in the world for for operational roles like cabin or flight crew.
Now bonuses is a completely different thing, and there it makes sense to tie those payments to the performance of the company: if the year was good, everybody profits, if not, there is less or nothing to share. But bonuses in most industries apart from banking rarely account for large parts of the common employee's income, so they're a sweetener when all stakeholders can afford it and that's it!
Now the actual topic here is supply and demand, another topic you'll find is covered in Economics for Dummies. Global demand for pilots is going up, consequently the price for pilot labour must go up. No point to discuss any ifs or buts, it always happens, the question is just by how much, and that depends on the bargaining powers to be -- hence the need for every participant of the economy to monitor prices of their labour or of the labour they employ, and to act and react as appropriate.
Rex and other stubborn companies who're not great economists it seems, are losing pilots as their price goes up and they don't put their renumeration up. Large airlines actually employ economists to know exactly where the market price for the labour they employ is.
Draw your own conclusions, pilots, I would say ask your union what their economists are saying, and demand 5% more so you end up getting paid the actual market price.
The argument that down the line airlines won't be able to afforg higher salaries is utter dross too, read up on price elasticity of demand if you will. Air travel has increased globally even with oil prices rising to 100 US a barrel, and even 20-30% increases in pilot wages will not change that global long term trend.
Aircraft, unless you have something of substance to say and you can back it up with facts and logical arguments, please stop wasting everyone's time and honour the age-old Roman truth: "If you had kept quiet, people would still think you are intelligent."
You come across as one of those brown-nosing middle management types
who are shuffling files around, but don't really understand much about their industry or for that matter anything much at all, and I think it's fair to say that by the responses you're getting here, the majority of people in your industry find your insistence on (usually ill-chosen) management mantras utterly annoying.
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My question is if demand for pilots is so strong and growing every year then why aren't pilots getting significant pay increases? If there is strong elasticity of demand as many in the industry claim then airlines would be forced to pay more to keep pilots from leaving...
If pilots aren't getting huge pay rises it would seem that some kind of demand supply equilibrium already exists........Perhaps there isn't a pilot shortage after all....atleast not yet...
At the end of the day it is in the pilots best interests and I would argue responsibility to demand the best woking conditions possible as it is the airlines responsibility to concede the least amount possible.......Loyalty runs very thin these days..Whoever has the upper hand in negotiations will largely be dictated by market forces at the time. At the moment it sure seems like the airlines have the upper hand, but don't worry pilots, I'm sure that in the very near future that this is gonna change.....These huge capacity expansions are going to kick in soon......They need pilots to fly them planes.....Not to mention engineers and other professionals to keep them up there...
If pilots aren't getting huge pay rises it would seem that some kind of demand supply equilibrium already exists........Perhaps there isn't a pilot shortage after all....atleast not yet...
At the end of the day it is in the pilots best interests and I would argue responsibility to demand the best woking conditions possible as it is the airlines responsibility to concede the least amount possible.......Loyalty runs very thin these days..Whoever has the upper hand in negotiations will largely be dictated by market forces at the time. At the moment it sure seems like the airlines have the upper hand, but don't worry pilots, I'm sure that in the very near future that this is gonna change.....These huge capacity expansions are going to kick in soon......They need pilots to fly them planes.....Not to mention engineers and other professionals to keep them up there...
Last edited by ramyon; 22nd Feb 2008 at 10:34.
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The shortage is in the experienced end of small GA.
I *ahem* know of a bloke, CP of a one-aircraft single-engine AWK operation who grossed $6,100 this month.
Why would he go to Rex as an FO on half that? Because he should have a command within 12 months paying him $5000/month?
I *ahem* know of a bloke, CP of a one-aircraft single-engine AWK operation who grossed $6,100 this month.
Why would he go to Rex as an FO on half that? Because he should have a command within 12 months paying him $5000/month?
