Canadian/FAA to Aus/NZ ATPL Conversion
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Canadian/FAA to Aus/NZ ATPL Conversion
Hey all,
I am looking to head over to Aus to try a hand at down under flying and lifestyle. However after being in aviation for almost a decade I am still liivng on breadcrumbs and therefore am looking at a cost effective method of reaching my goal. Have any of you undergone the conversion recently? Word around the campfire is that to go straight to the Aus is a bunch of written and flight exams costing around $10 000.
.
However to get the NZ ATPL is only an airlaw and a filight test...but the kicker is that the flight test has to be done on a heavy or sim, and the only way is to be hired by a company who has one of these at their disposal. The other way is to rent a large a/c (which there is only one in the country that does flight exams) and do the ride that way. Once completing the NZ you can hop over to aus and convert it straight over with a few minor details.
Can anyone tell me of some experiences they have had converting to Aus or NZ from Canadian or FAA? Much appreciated.
VFRSTAR
I am looking to head over to Aus to try a hand at down under flying and lifestyle. However after being in aviation for almost a decade I am still liivng on breadcrumbs and therefore am looking at a cost effective method of reaching my goal. Have any of you undergone the conversion recently? Word around the campfire is that to go straight to the Aus is a bunch of written and flight exams costing around $10 000.
. However to get the NZ ATPL is only an airlaw and a filight test...but the kicker is that the flight test has to be done on a heavy or sim, and the only way is to be hired by a company who has one of these at their disposal. The other way is to rent a large a/c (which there is only one in the country that does flight exams) and do the ride that way. Once completing the NZ you can hop over to aus and convert it straight over with a few minor details.
Can anyone tell me of some experiences they have had converting to Aus or NZ from Canadian or FAA? Much appreciated.
VFRSTAR
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I am going through the process at the moment. Basically to convert an overseas ATPL there are 3 steps:
1 - Apply to CASA for a validation of overseas qualifications
2 - Pass CPL Airlaw and IR written tests and then take the CPL and IR Checkride (a flight school wanted me to demonstrate to a flight instructor with a fraction of my experience that I was able to fly VFR in Australia without getting lost and to shoot an NDB approach)
3 - Pass the ATPL Airlaw and bring it to CASA, pay a good amount of money and that's it.
I have done steps 1 and 2. I'll let you know about step 3 in a week or so.
Note that IR written in not as easy as in the US, but for the checkride all you need is an instrument departure and an NDB approach. That will be enough to have the rating, but if you want to fly the other approaches, than you have to be tested in any single of them!
Every year also you need to pass an instrument renewal test on every approach you are endorsed for... no matter if you have ATPL, IR seems to be a sort of separate thing on your license, and if you let it expire for longer than 12 months you have to redo the written as well!
1 - Apply to CASA for a validation of overseas qualifications
2 - Pass CPL Airlaw and IR written tests and then take the CPL and IR Checkride (a flight school wanted me to demonstrate to a flight instructor with a fraction of my experience that I was able to fly VFR in Australia without getting lost and to shoot an NDB approach)
3 - Pass the ATPL Airlaw and bring it to CASA, pay a good amount of money and that's it.
I have done steps 1 and 2. I'll let you know about step 3 in a week or so.
Note that IR written in not as easy as in the US, but for the checkride all you need is an instrument departure and an NDB approach. That will be enough to have the rating, but if you want to fly the other approaches, than you have to be tested in any single of them!
Every year also you need to pass an instrument renewal test on every approach you are endorsed for... no matter if you have ATPL, IR seems to be a sort of separate thing on your license, and if you let it expire for longer than 12 months you have to redo the written as well!
Every year also you need to pass an instrument renewal test on every approach you are endorsed for... no matter if you have ATPL, IR seems to be a sort of separate thing on your license, and if you let it expire for longer than 12 months you have to redo the written as well!
Just to clarify, though, if you've passed the Instrument Rating Exam (which is what you call the "written"), then you have passed it. You won't need to do it again. What you WILL need to do again, if you let the rating lapse for longer than 12 months, is a full initial-issue flight test again, instead of a renewal.
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Done!
The ATPL Airlaw is a tricky one. Easy for those who deal with Australian regulations on a daily basis but very difficult for those from overseas, especially from the FAA system where the regulations are very straight forward.
Trying to find your own bearing through 6 main regulation books (CAR, CASR, CAO, CAAP, CAA, AIP, AIP ERSA) is total madness, so I suggest the following: Get the Airlaw study book from Aviation Theory Centre, the Roland Pagel's tags for all the books (or make your own as you cover the relevant paragraphs) and the AIP book+ERSA. The rest of the regulations are available on the CASA website and you can print only the relevant pages instead of buying all the books.
Once you have highlighted/tagged everything get the AFT Airlaw preparation questions and internet practice exams. Unlike what most people say on this forum, the AFT preparation questions are not identical nor similar to the actual test, but they'll give you an idea of the important subjects and to familiarize with the "language style" used in the test.
What I mean is, let's say there is a regulation like:
"you can fly airplane if:
1) the airplane is painted blue, or;
2) the airplane is painted burgundy."
you'll probably find a question similar to this:
"what airplane color can you fly?
a) only blue airplanes
b) green airplanes
c) dark red airplanes"
You'll soon discover that answer "a" is incorrect because of the "only" so the most correct would be dark red. Don't ask me why they do this, someone claims you have to do some brain work to find out the correct answer...
Trying to find your own bearing through 6 main regulation books (CAR, CASR, CAO, CAAP, CAA, AIP, AIP ERSA) is total madness, so I suggest the following: Get the Airlaw study book from Aviation Theory Centre, the Roland Pagel's tags for all the books (or make your own as you cover the relevant paragraphs) and the AIP book+ERSA. The rest of the regulations are available on the CASA website and you can print only the relevant pages instead of buying all the books.
Once you have highlighted/tagged everything get the AFT Airlaw preparation questions and internet practice exams. Unlike what most people say on this forum, the AFT preparation questions are not identical nor similar to the actual test, but they'll give you an idea of the important subjects and to familiarize with the "language style" used in the test.
What I mean is, let's say there is a regulation like:
"you can fly airplane if:
1) the airplane is painted blue, or;
2) the airplane is painted burgundy."
you'll probably find a question similar to this:
"what airplane color can you fly?
a) only blue airplanes
b) green airplanes
c) dark red airplanes"
You'll soon discover that answer "a" is incorrect because of the "only" so the most correct would be dark red. Don't ask me why they do this, someone claims you have to do some brain work to find out the correct answer...
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I have converted a NZ ATPL to Australian ATPL under the provisions of the Trans Tasman Mutual Recognition Agreement (TTMRA).
It was a paperwork exercise the cost quite a bit of money and time. The list of people that can witness your written declarations is quite narrow and in my case, I basically had to visit the country to get a federal policemans signature. No flight tests or exams. Australian CASA also required me to apply for a security ID card (ASIC) in order to see if I was a fit and proper person to hold an aviation document. You decare criminal history etc.
Australia would recognise my NZ Class 1 medical until it expired, but I elected to do a full initial issue Australian Class 1 before I came over.
I dont know if CASA will recognise a NZ licence where that licence was issued on the basis of some other foreign licence. It might pay to call CASA and check before you go down that track.
It was a paperwork exercise the cost quite a bit of money and time. The list of people that can witness your written declarations is quite narrow and in my case, I basically had to visit the country to get a federal policemans signature. No flight tests or exams. Australian CASA also required me to apply for a security ID card (ASIC) in order to see if I was a fit and proper person to hold an aviation document. You decare criminal history etc.
Australia would recognise my NZ Class 1 medical until it expired, but I elected to do a full initial issue Australian Class 1 before I came over.
I dont know if CASA will recognise a NZ licence where that licence was issued on the basis of some other foreign licence. It might pay to call CASA and check before you go down that track.
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Hi
Converting your licence is not your biggest obstacle - immigration is!!
Don't go wasting your money on exams and flight tests until you have a visa giving you work rights.
Pilots are not on DIAC's occupations in demand list so you will not qualify for a visa with work rights.
This subject has been raised many times before and still people are falling into the trap, thinking that they will worry about a visa later. They now have an Australian licence but are back in their own country trying to figure out how to get a visa to come back and work!!
Good Luck
Converting your licence is not your biggest obstacle - immigration is!!
Don't go wasting your money on exams and flight tests until you have a visa giving you work rights.
Pilots are not on DIAC's occupations in demand list so you will not qualify for a visa with work rights.
This subject has been raised many times before and still people are falling into the trap, thinking that they will worry about a visa later. They now have an Australian licence but are back in their own country trying to figure out how to get a visa to come back and work!!
Good Luck
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VFRSTAR
You got a lot of good advice here, especially Biggle's last comment re-visa.
On the score of the TTMRA - you will get issue of a equivalent licence ; despite being issued back-to-back. If you have a NZ licence, CASA will honour it.
However, for the life of me, I cannot understand why the school put you through a CPL flight test when you are applying for issue of an ATPL. The acquisition of a CPL is not mandatory before the ATPLA. Unless the instructor was checking your VFR skills which is required for a Circling Approach - a part of the CIR flight test.
There is no flight test for issue of an ATPLA, But you must have held, or currently hold, the Aus CIR (m/e) before being issued the licence. That kind of makes the CIR flight test the proxy for the ATPLA, so to speak. You need to pass CLWA, AALW and IREX exams. The CLWA needs to be done before AALW (naturally). These exams can be done anytime, and most do them all before the flying part.
ASL are the exam providers for CASA now and CASA have a link to their website on their own website (if that makes sense to you..).
So it sounds like you are nearly there in any case.
As others have mentioned, you need the security check (form 639 filled out and lodged) and an ELP (English language) assessment to do as well. Most CFIs have the CASA delegation to do this to level 6 only (you being from the States, the CFI will do). If a security check has not been completed by the time you finish the CIR flt test, you will have to wait until it is before licence issue.
Suggest that you start filling out form 196 off the CASA website which is the ATPL application form (I believe).
You got a lot of good advice here, especially Biggle's last comment re-visa.
On the score of the TTMRA - you will get issue of a equivalent licence ; despite being issued back-to-back. If you have a NZ licence, CASA will honour it.
However, for the life of me, I cannot understand why the school put you through a CPL flight test when you are applying for issue of an ATPL. The acquisition of a CPL is not mandatory before the ATPLA. Unless the instructor was checking your VFR skills which is required for a Circling Approach - a part of the CIR flight test.
There is no flight test for issue of an ATPLA, But you must have held, or currently hold, the Aus CIR (m/e) before being issued the licence. That kind of makes the CIR flight test the proxy for the ATPLA, so to speak. You need to pass CLWA, AALW and IREX exams. The CLWA needs to be done before AALW (naturally). These exams can be done anytime, and most do them all before the flying part.
ASL are the exam providers for CASA now and CASA have a link to their website on their own website (if that makes sense to you..).
So it sounds like you are nearly there in any case.
As others have mentioned, you need the security check (form 639 filled out and lodged) and an ELP (English language) assessment to do as well. Most CFIs have the CASA delegation to do this to level 6 only (you being from the States, the CFI will do). If a security check has not been completed by the time you finish the CIR flt test, you will have to wait until it is before licence issue.
Suggest that you start filling out form 196 off the CASA website which is the ATPL application form (I believe).
