Pilot Shortage my ar**e
Tubby. Agree with you in the forseable future at least.
Like most things this may be cyclic. The difference this time is that there are several factors coming together to make this supply problem an order of magnitude not seen in living memory!
I believe the supply of pilots will improve, but it won't happen overnight. The profession has been so run down, (even at the higher levels) that the only thing that will reinvigorate it will be drastically increased Terms and Conditions.
Most operators appear to be fiddleing around the edges. While Rome burns in some cases! Cadet schemes, (flawed due to a chronic lack of instructors). Employing very low time pilots, (flawed due to the inabilty, either capability wise or legally for these people to be upgraded to command). Road shows and looking overseas, What has that produced? Zip! (flawed because this problem is global).
As a society we have more choice than ever before. And very few young Australians are choosing aviation. Trying to lure unsuspecting juveniles with schemes containing more legs than a spider may have had limited sucess in the past, but I think in today's environment it really is a case of clutching at straws! Untill such time as the industry chooses to address the underlying reason for the shortage, the situation will only get worse.
Like most things this may be cyclic. The difference this time is that there are several factors coming together to make this supply problem an order of magnitude not seen in living memory!
I believe the supply of pilots will improve, but it won't happen overnight. The profession has been so run down, (even at the higher levels) that the only thing that will reinvigorate it will be drastically increased Terms and Conditions.
Most operators appear to be fiddleing around the edges. While Rome burns in some cases! Cadet schemes, (flawed due to a chronic lack of instructors). Employing very low time pilots, (flawed due to the inabilty, either capability wise or legally for these people to be upgraded to command). Road shows and looking overseas, What has that produced? Zip! (flawed because this problem is global).
As a society we have more choice than ever before. And very few young Australians are choosing aviation. Trying to lure unsuspecting juveniles with schemes containing more legs than a spider may have had limited sucess in the past, but I think in today's environment it really is a case of clutching at straws! Untill such time as the industry chooses to address the underlying reason for the shortage, the situation will only get worse.
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Most operators appear to be fiddleing around the edges. While Rome burns in some cases! Cadet schemes, (flawed due to a chronic lack of instructors). Employing very low time pilots, (flawed due to the inabilty, either capability wise or legally for these people to be upgraded to command). Road shows and looking overseas, What has that produced? Zip! (flawed because this problem is global).
I'm available.
My minimum salary expectation is $120,000 per year USD, which is my current salary in IT. But since I'm low time I'll accept $80,000.
Employer needs to provide a full expat package, including schooling, arrange for license conversion, hotels and housing, airfare to Australia, the works.
I shall now sit back and watch my inbox fill up with offers...
You guys will probably laugh at this, but in my industry (or in any serious profession like engineering), what I just said would be standard, especially if your skills where in a field that was experiencing a real "shortage".
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QLink seeking pilots with CPL and preferably ATPL theory plus HSC English and Maths. Desirable but NOT essential MECIR, 100 hours PIC and Bachelor's Degree.
I just don't get it!
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500 hrs
I remember, a long long time ago Qantas had a sign in the window of the Brisbane office saying that if you had a ppl and 500 hours they would like to talk to you.
I also remember a few years later I met a young man who had a Qantas cadetship. They were paying for his flying training, 10 hours at a time, and he was making his fourth attempt to pass the CPL nav exam. He had failed three times. It wasn't that hard. I passed them all in one week. I never saw him again.
404 Titan
If they can only get 10 pilots out of 1000 applicants they will always be short of pilots. The rest will go elsewhere. That is rediculous.
I also remember a few years later I met a young man who had a Qantas cadetship. They were paying for his flying training, 10 hours at a time, and he was making his fourth attempt to pass the CPL nav exam. He had failed three times. It wasn't that hard. I passed them all in one week. I never saw him again.
404 Titan
If they can only get 10 pilots out of 1000 applicants they will always be short of pilots. The rest will go elsewhere. That is rediculous.
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A Great Outlook!
Tubby One, you hit the nail on the head 
, according to most serious economists the current situation is a temporary dip! Yes, the US is probably headed for a small "r", but a new president there and strong growth in the rest of the world will cushion the blow -- I doubt it'll be felt much in Oz in the medium term as the local economy and that of our neighbours shows no signs of letting up, and the fundamentals like supply of raw materials and demand from Asia are very strong also..
Quick tangential rant: The whole housing topic can and should be ignored from an individual's point of view as it's just bank-induced stupidity to buy into such a ridiculous market
Rent, invest the money you would have spent on a mortgage, double your money every ten years (conservatively speaking), be more flexible and look back with a smile rather than just trading up every few years and ending up with an overpriced piece of junk in 30 years time 
, having spent most of your disposable income in the process to line some banker's pocket.. look around the world, it seems to be the Anglosaxons and their societal heirs who're as silly and emotional when it comes to home ownership 
! Rant over!
As per pilot numbers, there's enough evidence around
in aeroplane sales figures, current pilot age/retirement projections, passenger growth all around the world, and the like, to strongly suggest that what we're seeing at the moment is only the beginning of a pretty fundamental shake-up in the Oz aviation industry 
. Most things flying Down Under have been a bit special in the past for a variety of reasons, but global demand, cheaper/easier FIFO deals and a more flexible global workforce are now starting to make a real difference!
As per the effects on GA, yes, local prices/T's&C's etc. will need to go up, but that will in turn attract pilots who not necessarily want to fly long haul or large jets (I bet they're enough of us out there) and the game will no doubt go on. I'd be willing to bet on that, actually
Remember, the basic laws of supply and demand never change, and demand in aviation services will not just suddenly vanish as prices go up (it's called elasticity of demand, and it's very real also), so there'll still be money to be made to savy entrepeneurs 
And there's another notable thing going on: With a lot of the global growth in aviation happening in the relative neighbourhood, Australia's reputation for good quality training, high standards of theory testing (yes the CASA phenomenon has its good side, would you believe it), and the abundance of space and good weather, the government's pledge to develop the "world's leading aviation training industry" doesn't sound far-fetched at all. Again I would be inclined to bet that in ten years' time we will see literally dozens of new small and large players out there, making a handsome return with cadets from all over Asia, India, the Middle East, you name it.
In summary, yes, things are going to change, there will be casualties along the line, but I get the distinct impression that we're headed for a much stronger and larger and more profitable aviation industry in this country.
..now ducking for cover from the assorted mudslinging nay-sayers, pessimists, and past-glorifying dinosaurs
, according to most serious economists the current situation is a temporary dip! Yes, the US is probably headed for a small "r", but a new president there and strong growth in the rest of the world will cushion the blow -- I doubt it'll be felt much in Oz in the medium term as the local economy and that of our neighbours shows no signs of letting up, and the fundamentals like supply of raw materials and demand from Asia are very strong also..Quick tangential rant: The whole housing topic can and should be ignored from an individual's point of view as it's just bank-induced stupidity to buy into such a ridiculous market
Rent, invest the money you would have spent on a mortgage, double your money every ten years (conservatively speaking), be more flexible and look back with a smile rather than just trading up every few years and ending up with an overpriced piece of junk in 30 years time , having spent most of your disposable income in the process to line some banker's pocket.. look around the world, it seems to be the Anglosaxons and their societal heirs who're as silly and emotional when it comes to home ownership ! Rant over!As per pilot numbers, there's enough evidence around
in aeroplane sales figures, current pilot age/retirement projections, passenger growth all around the world, and the like, to strongly suggest that what we're seeing at the moment is only the beginning of a pretty fundamental shake-up in the Oz aviation industry . Most things flying Down Under have been a bit special in the past for a variety of reasons, but global demand, cheaper/easier FIFO deals and a more flexible global workforce are now starting to make a real difference!As per the effects on GA, yes, local prices/T's&C's etc. will need to go up, but that will in turn attract pilots who not necessarily want to fly long haul or large jets (I bet they're enough of us out there) and the game will no doubt go on. I'd be willing to bet on that, actually
Remember, the basic laws of supply and demand never change, and demand in aviation services will not just suddenly vanish as prices go up (it's called elasticity of demand, and it's very real also), so there'll still be money to be made to savy entrepeneurs And there's another notable thing going on: With a lot of the global growth in aviation happening in the relative neighbourhood, Australia's reputation for good quality training, high standards of theory testing (yes the CASA phenomenon has its good side, would you believe it
), and the abundance of space and good weather, the government's pledge to develop the "world's leading aviation training industry" doesn't sound far-fetched at all. Again I would be inclined to bet that in ten years' time we will see literally dozens of new small and large players out there, making a handsome return with cadets from all over Asia, India, the Middle East, you name it.In summary, yes, things are going to change, there will be casualties along the line, but I get the distinct impression that we're headed for a much stronger and larger and more profitable aviation industry in this country.
..now ducking for cover from the assorted mudslinging nay-sayers, pessimists, and past-glorifying dinosaurs
Last edited by PlankBlender; 25th Jan 2008 at 06:48. Reason: minor edits
bushy
From what I have seen in my company, when they advertise their cadet scheme they will get 2-3000 applications from around the world. 80% of these applicants won’t even get the chance at an interview because they are clearly unsuitable for the scheme. It is no different in Australia. Just ask the air force what their strike rate is like for pilot recruitment?
From what I have seen in my company, when they advertise their cadet scheme they will get 2-3000 applications from around the world. 80% of these applicants won’t even get the chance at an interview because they are clearly unsuitable for the scheme. It is no different in Australia. Just ask the air force what their strike rate is like for pilot recruitment?
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Guptar opened this thread with;
"There's heaps of talented, capable, competent drivers out there with logbooks full of quality hours that arent getting a look in, due to stupid criteria in interviews, psyche/personailty tests."
I agree but if you are an older pilot chances are you will not need to worry about psyche and personality tests because there is overwhelming evidence to show you will not get an interview anyway!!!.
"There's heaps of talented, capable, competent drivers out there with logbooks full of quality hours that arent getting a look in, due to stupid criteria in interviews, psyche/personailty tests."
I agree but if you are an older pilot chances are you will not need to worry about psyche and personality tests because there is overwhelming evidence to show you will not get an interview anyway!!!.
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........hey 'van g' aviation is like that, just not for the workers !
We've heard it a zillion times here. (type typical).....aged experienced guy with well above the mins is already employed in a multi crew environment just seeking to bring that experience and the opertunity to stay a while for a major & still they pass him over!. He fails the physco test, only completed year 11 at best but the 10000 hrs & ireplaceable experience he's accumulated along the way doesn't mean squat !!!!
They don't want pilots anymore, they want educated monkies who they can mould & pay 'em peanuts !.........this we are seeing now, not tomorrow !
BTW the above isn't myself either, yr 11 would have been great !
CW
We've heard it a zillion times here. (type typical).....aged experienced guy with well above the mins is already employed in a multi crew environment just seeking to bring that experience and the opertunity to stay a while for a major & still they pass him over!. He fails the physco test, only completed year 11 at best but the 10000 hrs & ireplaceable experience he's accumulated along the way doesn't mean squat !!!!
They don't want pilots anymore, they want educated monkies who they can mould & pay 'em peanuts !.........this we are seeing now, not tomorrow !
BTW the above isn't myself either, yr 11 would have been great !
CW
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If there is a shortage please help me get a job.
Hi
just got another knockback "no competitive enough" if there is a pilot shortage why will no one return my calls. I just clicked over the 1500/600ME a few days ago but i have been applying for jobs for the last 2 months. I really just want out of GA and remote locations so why if there is a shortage can i not even get a callback from the numerous regional airlines out there ??
help what am i doing wrong, this reminds me of the bad old days
IS555
just got another knockback "no competitive enough" if there is a pilot shortage why will no one return my calls. I just clicked over the 1500/600ME a few days ago but i have been applying for jobs for the last 2 months. I really just want out of GA and remote locations so why if there is a shortage can i not even get a callback from the numerous regional airlines out there ??
help what am i doing wrong, this reminds me of the bad old days
IS555
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Towering Q,
yeah i have not tried WA but as most of my family and friends are east coast i would rather not be so far away,
and yes i have current CIR, frozen ATPL's
IS555
yeah i have not tried WA but as most of my family and friends are east coast i would rather not be so far away,
and yes i have current CIR, frozen ATPL's
IS555
Silly Old Git
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Quote:
"We're very fortunate to be an airline that's in a strong financial position," he said.
"There's other airlines out there that don't have the ability that Rex has, in terms of financial strength, to cope with that."
THEN PAY YOUR PILOTS YOU..... IDIOTS!
"We're very fortunate to be an airline that's in a strong financial position," he said.
"There's other airlines out there that don't have the ability that Rex has, in terms of financial strength, to cope with that."
THEN PAY YOUR PILOTS YOU..... IDIOTS!
How long will that financial strength last Warrick?
All the indicators are that this year will be as bad if not worse than last year. If you guys want to garrentee another 60%+ pilot loss this year, then continue what you are doing.
In 12 months time you will be a brave man indeed my friend if you can face the public with that statement!
All the indicators are that this year will be as bad if not worse than last year. If you guys want to garrentee another 60%+ pilot loss this year, then continue what you are doing.
In 12 months time you will be a brave man indeed my friend if you can face the public with that statement!
Whether in their right mind or not LRT, it is illegal to trade as a public company whilst insolvent. REX are not there yet, but if they continue the way they are going, it will only be a matter of time. So I take your point with that regard.
And who said REX management like their staff. If they do, then they have a strange way of showing it.
With respect to their current actions, exactly what point are you trying to make?
And who said REX management like their staff. If they do, then they have a strange way of showing it.
With respect to their current actions, exactly what point are you trying to make?