Skippers Aviation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: perth
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skippers Aviation
Is there anymore recent news on Skippers after Stan Q has taken over? Are they still facing a pilot exodus or have they found new CPL holders to fill the gaps? Does anyone know if they are looking for Dash 8 drivers?
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as i know things are pretty much the same that is f
. One would think that while SQ is running the show they would not be moving forward as they should be but trying to fix all the f ups previous wankers and existing wankers in the company created in the first place. But that is not to say Stan has finally woken up from his long coma and actually is aware of the problems within the company and the challenges it faces in both holding onto and recruiting staff. At least he got rid of that c smoker he called himself the CEO
. One would think that while SQ is running the show they would not be moving forward as they should be but trying to fix all the f ups previous wankers and existing wankers in the company created in the first place. But that is not to say Stan has finally woken up from his long coma and actually is aware of the problems within the company and the challenges it faces in both holding onto and recruiting staff. At least he got rid of that c smoker he called himself the CEO
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe not naive but didnt give a **** as he wasnt faced with it on a day to day basis (he is now though). As long as they were meeting their expected monthly quota, there would be no reason to worry. But now as he is supposablly running the circus down there he is forced to have a greater oversight of wats going on and hopefully make the required changes if they stand a chance against their expanding competition eg network,maromba etc
). As long as they were meeting their expected monthly quota, there would be no reason to worry. But now as he is supposablly running the circus down there he is forced to have a greater oversight of wats going on and hopefully make the required changes if they stand a chance against their expanding competition eg network,maromba etc
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting...Work Visas for pilots
Just found this on their website. Has this been happening for long and does anyone know if they have had any success.
http://www.skippers.com.au/job_009.htm
http://www.skippers.com.au/job_009.htm
....if they stand a chance against their expanding competition eg network,maromba etc
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
True marromba may have a smaller fleet than skippers, but they operate a jet on their government contract will will allow them more options down the track to obtain additional jets on their Aoc and go for the bigger contracts so that puts then already one step in front of skippers. Also alot of experienced skippers check and training captains have migrated to maroomba which in turn has affected the training standards at skippers. Just look at recent events regarding a braz at jundee need i say more. Also a certain braz captain who went to skywest and failed his F/o on the F50 2 or 3 times only to get the boot from skywest is now back as a captain on the braz at skippers (disgrace)
So i think Maroomba is definite competition for skippers!!
So i think Maroomba is definite competition for skippers!!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turkee as per my pm i think that incident at jundee did have something to do with training standards and techniques especially when most of the training captains on the braz at the time of the incident bar 2 1 of whom has left hadn't even been captains that long and would have ben lucky to have 400 hrs pic on the braz. I am not having a dig at these guys just trying to point out that skippers has its self to blame by trying to screw pilots on their conditions therefore all the experienced guys will leave leaving not so experienced guys to get a quick command - sorry but thats the truth.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In Transit....
Age: 52
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turkee as per my pm i think that incident at jundee did have something to do with training standards and techniques especially when most of the training captains on the braz at the time of the incident bar 2 1 of whom has left hadn't even been captains that long and would have ben lucky to have 400 hrs pic on the braz. I am not having a dig at these guys just trying to point out that skippers has its self to blame by trying to screw pilots on their conditions therefore all the experienced guys will leave leaving not so experienced guys to get a quick command - sorry but thats the truth.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In Transit....
Age: 52
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turkee as per my pm i think that incident at jundee did have something to do with training standards and techniques especially when most of the training captains on the braz at the time of the incident bar 2 1 of whom has left hadn't even been captains that long and would have ben lucky to have 400 hrs pic on the braz. I am not having a dig at these guys just trying to point out that skippers has its self to blame by trying to screw pilots on their conditions therefore all the experienced guys will leave leaving not so experienced guys to get a quick command - sorry but thats the truth.
A) He hasnt got command as quickly as the other guys
or
B) He got rejected when he applied for a pilot's position
BR715
The crew of that aircraft at Jundee had been trained by experienced training captains. The required annual Flight Standards training was conducted by Experienced training captains. To make a mention of the flight training experience at the time of the Jundee incident is completetly innappropriate.
Alot of companies around Australia are facing the situation of having reduced experience at all levels. This does not necessarily change the compentance levels or the amount of professionalism of the crew up front. The degree / level / amount of training a company provides does not always mean 100% success rate as Many Major Airlines have found out over recent years.
Although this may be shooting myself in the foot I can assure you that as being THE 400 hour PIC Training Captain you have associated you previous post with I take a huge amount of offense to your comments. As with all Training Captains / Line Pilots in the cockpits today I would like to think that everyone is striving to fly / train to a safe professional standard to keep everyone safe.
Although your comments hopefully are not posted with any malice rather a point about the current industry sitution I still think your assumed links are very misguided.
The crew of that aircraft at Jundee had been trained by experienced training captains. The required annual Flight Standards training was conducted by Experienced training captains. To make a mention of the flight training experience at the time of the Jundee incident is completetly innappropriate.
Alot of companies around Australia are facing the situation of having reduced experience at all levels. This does not necessarily change the compentance levels or the amount of professionalism of the crew up front. The degree / level / amount of training a company provides does not always mean 100% success rate as Many Major Airlines have found out over recent years.
Although this may be shooting myself in the foot I can assure you that as being THE 400 hour PIC Training Captain you have associated you previous post with I take a huge amount of offense to your comments. As with all Training Captains / Line Pilots in the cockpits today I would like to think that everyone is striving to fly / train to a safe professional standard to keep everyone safe.
Although your comments hopefully are not posted with any malice rather a point about the current industry sitution I still think your assumed links are very misguided.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Perth
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BR17 you tool...
Take some time and read the ATSB report.
You will find that the crew had almost 2000hrs combined on the A/C.
You will also find that nothing in their procedures would have prevenred the incident from occuring. Leave the Cand T's alone. They are very proffessional and thorough and the senior member for Training on the BRAZ is brutal and misses nothing.
Heals you shoud take offense as your products are proven every time you train one
Take some time and read the ATSB report.
You will find that the crew had almost 2000hrs combined on the A/C.
You will also find that nothing in their procedures would have prevenred the incident from occuring. Leave the Cand T's alone. They are very proffessional and thorough and the senior member for Training on the BRAZ is brutal and misses nothing.
Heals you shoud take offense as your products are proven every time you train one
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Funshine
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BR715 and Healy
Your comments re: the level of experience and the situation at Skippers is spot on and the company has been very very lucky to date not to have things go wrong... Jundee could have been Australia's worst aviation accident EVER (think about that for a second) and it is well known how close they came being on a future episode of Air Crash Investigations.
Healy and V Tail sorry but his comments are sound and whether it was you or anyone else as a Training Capt, 400 hours PIC is nowhere near enough time on type to say you know your aircraft through and through - be honest. I personally know of several people that have moved from the right to the left seat in a very short time - not because they are the world's best pilots but because there literally is no one left and they meet the requirements to be PIC - plain and simple. Please prove me wrong. Surely the story of one ex Skippers Braz Captain going to ******* then returning to Skippers due to failing several line checks is proof enough that the experience levels of Captains leaves something to be desired.
There would have been a time when checkers and trainers had a couple of thousand hours on type. Sadly those days are gone; a by product of the movement available and moreso the conditions / pay at Skippers are dismal - why do you think there is hardly any experienced people there anymore???
V Tail - there is no need to call BR715 a tool - I am sure that most that read this agree with him - not because they know him or her (I don't) but because the situation there at Skippers is dire. The nearly 2000hrs combined you mentioned would have been made up (the majority of it) by the F/O's time. I take you to task with your statement about there were no procs in place to prevent said outcome - without wanting to bring it to the fore, that is false but also hindsight is a terrific thing and the crew did well to make it on the ground.
Once again Healy please don't think this is directed at you personally - I'm sure you are professional in your role but you must admit that BR715 does have a point.
What is at question here is the level and amount of experience someone can fall back on when it turns to poo - not the quality of the training received.
Your comments re: the level of experience and the situation at Skippers is spot on and the company has been very very lucky to date not to have things go wrong... Jundee could have been Australia's worst aviation accident EVER (think about that for a second) and it is well known how close they came being on a future episode of Air Crash Investigations.
Healy and V Tail sorry but his comments are sound and whether it was you or anyone else as a Training Capt, 400 hours PIC is nowhere near enough time on type to say you know your aircraft through and through - be honest. I personally know of several people that have moved from the right to the left seat in a very short time - not because they are the world's best pilots but because there literally is no one left and they meet the requirements to be PIC - plain and simple. Please prove me wrong. Surely the story of one ex Skippers Braz Captain going to ******* then returning to Skippers due to failing several line checks is proof enough that the experience levels of Captains leaves something to be desired.
There would have been a time when checkers and trainers had a couple of thousand hours on type. Sadly those days are gone; a by product of the movement available and moreso the conditions / pay at Skippers are dismal - why do you think there is hardly any experienced people there anymore???
V Tail - there is no need to call BR715 a tool - I am sure that most that read this agree with him - not because they know him or her (I don't) but because the situation there at Skippers is dire. The nearly 2000hrs combined you mentioned would have been made up (the majority of it) by the F/O's time. I take you to task with your statement about there were no procs in place to prevent said outcome - without wanting to bring it to the fore, that is false but also hindsight is a terrific thing and the crew did well to make it on the ground.
Once again Healy please don't think this is directed at you personally - I'm sure you are professional in your role but you must admit that BR715 does have a point.
What is at question here is the level and amount of experience someone can fall back on when it turns to poo - not the quality of the training received.
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Perth
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To begin with the that were in place prior to the accident ( I dont want to open a can of worms on old stuff ) would not have prevented this incident, however now they are and that same incident will be prevented today if procedures are followed.
Is the situation at Skippers dire like you say?????
Do you work there????.
$95K (inc super I know) is that S pay for 3-4 days a week and not all that is all day.
What is experience??? is it the fact that you have X amount of hours on type and nothing that you have flown before hand counts as 'experience'.
At the end of the day an aircraft goes forward and generates lift and then climbs, What I am trying to say is just because time maybe limited on one type doesnt mean the experience level is low.
There are at present quite a few Capts on BRAZ now now with both considerable time on type and some with some time on type and a lot of other flying experience .
So to say that the fleet is lacking in experience is not true or fair to the crew and C & T's and no BR17 is not correct
Things are not all as bad at Skippers but yes they do still have some issues
Is the situation at Skippers dire like you say?????
Do you work there????.
$95K (inc super I know) is that S
pay for 3-4 days a week and not all that is all day.What is experience??? is it the fact that you have X amount of hours on type and nothing that you have flown before hand counts as 'experience'.
At the end of the day an aircraft goes forward and generates lift and then climbs, What I am trying to say is just because time maybe limited on one type doesnt mean the experience level is low.
There are at present quite a few Capts on BRAZ now now with both considerable time on type and some with some time on type and a lot of other flying experience .
So to say that the fleet is lacking in experience is not true or fair to the crew and C & T's and no BR17 is not correct
Things are not all as bad at Skippers but yes they do still have some issues
Join Date: May 2002
Location: North W.A.
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BR715.
I think your comments are spot on.
In regard to how the Jundee accident panned out, lets just wait and see when the full ATSB report is completed before comment can be made on the crews actions.
I think your comments are spot on.
In regard to how the Jundee accident panned out, lets just wait and see when the full ATSB report is completed before comment can be made on the crews actions.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Darwin
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vee tail
[QUOTE]
"There are at present quite a few Capts on BRAZ now now with both considerable time on type and some with some time on type and a lot of other flying experience ."
There are also captains on the Braz/Metro in training and checked to line that have never flown a turbine, never flown multi crew and are going in as direct entry captains on high performance turboprops flying into mine sites that at times can be highly demanding both with weather and traffic. I find it hard to believe that any C and T pilots out there with any brains would think that is a good idea. Look at Skywest for example when there captains move from the F50 to the F100 they have to sit in the right hand seat for 6 months to get some experience on the jet and how they operate it before they move in to the left seat doesn't matter how many thousands of hours you have on props or total command hours . How many incidents do you see them having as a result not many!!! Skippers should take a leaf out of Skywests book or maybe they can ask the bloke who failed his check a few times and is back at skippers as a Braz captain i am sure he will tell you all about Skywest training standards lol!!!
By the way didnt CASA step in a while ago and make a few captains on the metro (employed as direct entry captains) fly as F/o's for a while to get some experience on type first for the reasons stated above.
Just because the crew may have had 2000hrs combined on the Braz does not make them experienced pilots. How much actual command time did one of the pilots have less than 300hrs i think you will find with less than 50 MEPIC so just because you have total experience on aircraft type as the F/o did that counts for **** as it is the command experience/judgment that counts when the **** hits the fan as it it did at Jundee.
Vee Tail no need to call me a tool just telling as is see it and by the looks of it others too, are they tools??? too. You sound as if you are stuck at skippers still flying props while everyone else around you is moving on to jets try the PATS course i hear it is well worth the money!!!!
[QUOTE]
"Although this may be shooting myself in the foot I can assure you that as being THE 400 hour PIC Training Captain you have associated you previous post with I take a huge amount of offense to your comments."
HEALY wasn't directing it to you personally i don't know you and that 400 hr figure was a estimate i used to make a point and i am not doubting your flying or training skills just trying to make a point about the SYSTEM in general and how it is changing and i don't think it is for the better.
[QUOTE]
"There are at present quite a few Capts on BRAZ now now with both considerable time on type and some with some time on type and a lot of other flying experience ."
There are also captains on the Braz/Metro in training and checked to line that have never flown a turbine, never flown multi crew and are going in as direct entry captains on high performance turboprops flying into mine sites that at times can be highly demanding both with weather and traffic. I find it hard to believe that any C and T pilots out there with any brains would think that is a good idea. Look at Skywest for example when there captains move from the F50 to the F100 they have to sit in the right hand seat for 6 months to get some experience on the jet and how they operate it before they move in to the left seat doesn't matter how many thousands of hours you have on props or total command hours . How many incidents do you see them having as a result not many!!! Skippers should take a leaf out of Skywests book or maybe they can ask the bloke who failed his check a few times and is back at skippers as a Braz captain i am sure he will tell you all about Skywest training standards lol!!!
By the way didnt CASA step in a while ago and make a few captains on the metro (employed as direct entry captains) fly as F/o's for a while to get some experience on type first for the reasons stated above.
Just because the crew may have had 2000hrs combined on the Braz does not make them experienced pilots. How much actual command time did one of the pilots have less than 300hrs i think you will find with less than 50 MEPIC so just because you have total experience on aircraft type as the F/o did that counts for **** as it is the command experience/judgment that counts when the **** hits the fan as it it did at Jundee.
Vee Tail no need to call me a tool
just telling as is see it and by the looks of it others too, are they tools??? too. You sound as if you are stuck at skippers still flying props while everyone else around you is moving on to jets try the PATS course i hear it is well worth the money!!!![QUOTE]
"Although this may be shooting myself in the foot I can assure you that as being THE 400 hour PIC Training Captain you have associated you previous post with I take a huge amount of offense to your comments."
HEALY wasn't directing it to you personally i don't know you and that 400 hr figure was a estimate i used to make a point and i am not doubting your flying or training skills just trying to make a point about the SYSTEM in general and how it is changing and i don't think it is for the better.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Perth
Posts: 841
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BR,
I am one of those metro direct entry Captains you speak of, and you will see by my profile that you have missed the mark considerably.
4800 tt, 2300 mecom, 11 renewals, 1500+ turbine command, not my first above 5700kg, 150 multi crew before Skippers, ATPL-A for 5 years, CAR 217 ATO and C&T, flying a Metro into and out of these strips is no where near the most challenging flying to date.
Some of the others, previously :
1) LH seat of Q400 ( Ex Metro and Bras Captain, C&T )
2) B777 / 727 ( ex Metro Captain ),
3) ex-Dornier 328 pilot ( ex Metro Captain also ).
As far as comparing the progression in Skywest, what would happen if Skywest only had F100's ?.
Much the same as your first flying job, flying the C206 and looking forward to the challenge of flying the bigger and faster C210.
There are many perceptions from the past that just are not relevant anymore, for example 10 years ago a 1500-2000 hour pilot would aspire to the RH seat of a Metro, no longer, these guys are getting much faster progression, which is not a problem as long as there is good training and follow up mentoring.
I am of the same opinion as Vee Tail, the company is not without its issues, but it is not a bad place to work.
I am one of those metro direct entry Captains you speak of, and you will see by my profile that you have missed the mark considerably.
4800 tt, 2300 mecom, 11 renewals, 1500+ turbine command, not my first above 5700kg, 150 multi crew before Skippers, ATPL-A for 5 years, CAR 217 ATO and C&T, flying a Metro into and out of these strips is no where near the most challenging flying to date.
Some of the others, previously :
1) LH seat of Q400 ( Ex Metro and Bras Captain, C&T )
2) B777 / 727 ( ex Metro Captain ),
3) ex-Dornier 328 pilot ( ex Metro Captain also ).
As far as comparing the progression in Skywest, what would happen if Skywest only had F100's ?.
Much the same as your first flying job, flying the C206 and looking forward to the challenge of flying the bigger and faster C210.
There are many perceptions from the past that just are not relevant anymore, for example 10 years ago a 1500-2000 hour pilot would aspire to the RH seat of a Metro, no longer, these guys are getting much faster progression, which is not a problem as long as there is good training and follow up mentoring.
I am of the same opinion as Vee Tail, the company is not without its issues, but it is not a bad place to work.
Last edited by Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower; 27th Jan 2008 at 12:52.