Mustangs at Maralinga
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warbirds
Thought i might place another mystery on the table, When i was flying up in Cairns i once met up with a bloke who owns a farm north of cooktown.
This guy swears that on his farm which runs to the coast has a p-39 in the silica sand dunes which is currently buried. Apparently it landed in the dunes after a nav problem and ran out of fuel .He said every time they have a cyclone come through he pops out to the spot on his tractor and recovers it up so not to attract attention.
Another person who knew the bloke backed up his story , all good for another mystery anyway.
This guy swears that on his farm which runs to the coast has a p-39 in the silica sand dunes which is currently buried. Apparently it landed in the dunes after a nav problem and ran out of fuel .He said every time they have a cyclone come through he pops out to the spot on his tractor and recovers it up so not to attract attention.
Another person who knew the bloke backed up his story , all good for another mystery anyway.
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On the other side , a legend that turned out to be false was the 'new tiger moths in crates' at Goolwa.
I met the guy that owned them later and when I saw them they were very well worn tigers sitting in a barn in pieces , some of those pieces were in crates
I met the guy that owned them later and when I saw them they were very well worn tigers sitting in a barn in pieces , some of those pieces were in crates
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This guy swears that on his farm which runs to the coast has a p-39 in the silica sand dunes which is currently buried.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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aseanaero; I cannot be certain of this but I remember a fair while ago now reading somewhere (possibly in a Time magazine) that the US Government had passed legislation to the effect that declares that any abandoned US Military equipment is still US property.
The effect of the legislation is that if you ever located 'somewhere in the GAFA' a Mustang, Aerocobra or whatever, you would still have to apply to the US Govt for permission to salvage it, and possibly have to pay for it as well!
At least that was my understanding of the article.
Quite possibly this could be the cause of the dilemma faced by the RAAF Blokes referred to in the post by maxgrad, the inference being that the Aussie Govt would possibly have to shell out for those bits and pieces as they were given to Australia under the Lend lease agreement. Which to my understanding was that upon the cessation of hostilities, as long as lend lease items were 'disposed of' by methods other than being sold, the Aussie Govt did not have to shell out hard currency for them. If, however, even now those items were salvaged by private individuals, the Aussie Govt would have to cough up, and so would the salvagers under the recently passed legislation in the US.
The effect of the legislation is that if you ever located 'somewhere in the GAFA' a Mustang, Aerocobra or whatever, you would still have to apply to the US Govt for permission to salvage it, and possibly have to pay for it as well!
At least that was my understanding of the article.
Quite possibly this could be the cause of the dilemma faced by the RAAF Blokes referred to in the post by maxgrad, the inference being that the Aussie Govt would possibly have to shell out for those bits and pieces as they were given to Australia under the Lend lease agreement. Which to my understanding was that upon the cessation of hostilities, as long as lend lease items were 'disposed of' by methods other than being sold, the Aussie Govt did not have to shell out hard currency for them. If, however, even now those items were salvaged by private individuals, the Aussie Govt would have to cough up, and so would the salvagers under the recently passed legislation in the US.
flyby. Only a maybe if on the eastern side of Cape York. Why on earth would any one cover it up - then tell you about it?
There was a flight of P-39 Air Cobras that got lost between Cooktown and PNG. They flew around the top of Cape York and I think ended up on the beach north of Weipa - it is fairly well documented. I think most of those were recovered in later years.
There is also a couple of Beaufighters at Bamaga, other side of the strip to the "terminal".
Pinky. The Yanks pulled that one with anyone that recovered abandoned military aircraft or aircraft parts from Vietnam. I think Col Pay was one of the first to get ex US aircraft out of Vietnam without upsetting the Yanks, possibly after they re-established diplomatic relations with Vietnam.
There was a flight of P-39 Air Cobras that got lost between Cooktown and PNG. They flew around the top of Cape York and I think ended up on the beach north of Weipa - it is fairly well documented. I think most of those were recovered in later years.
There is also a couple of Beaufighters at Bamaga, other side of the strip to the "terminal".
Pinky. The Yanks pulled that one with anyone that recovered abandoned military aircraft or aircraft parts from Vietnam. I think Col Pay was one of the first to get ex US aircraft out of Vietnam without upsetting the Yanks, possibly after they re-established diplomatic relations with Vietnam.
WWII warbird rumours.
1) There are a bunch of aircraft/engines/parts buried somewhere around Toowoomba/Oakey.
2) There are another bunch burried in a bunker under Mt Louisa in Townsville.
These stories come up from time-to-time but nobody has found them as yet.
Dr
PS: Oh yes, and Elvis is alive and well and living on Magnetic Is!
1) There are a bunch of aircraft/engines/parts buried somewhere around Toowoomba/Oakey.
2) There are another bunch burried in a bunker under Mt Louisa in Townsville.
These stories come up from time-to-time but nobody has found them as yet.
Dr
PS: Oh yes, and Elvis is alive and well and living on Magnetic Is!
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There is also a couple of Beaufighters at Bamaga, other side of the strip to the "terminal".
Also P39 stories more than likely correct, as one was near Bamaga (many bushfires over the years scarred it greatly)and front end was destroyed by ADF due possibility of live ammo inside. Documentary was made about it featuring the USAAF pilot who dropped it there.
There were a few stories in some of the newspapers around 15 years ago about a number of aircraft dumped by the poms off the coast near Bundaberg QLD. Corsairs, Hellcats, Avengers etc.. Under the lend/lease agreement the aircraft couldn't be given back so were disposed of in around 600m of water.
The story made a bit of a splash at the time but faded quickly from view.
Was there any truth to the story?
The story made a bit of a splash at the time but faded quickly from view.
Was there any truth to the story?
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P51d Mustang A68-1
I am Tony's younger brother. I was there at the recovery and know whole story. I was age 16. Anyone who wants to know all the story can contact me. We tried to "recover" it again from USA in 1984 to bring it back to Australia. A68-1 was the first P51D off the Australian Assembly Line. I found the original pilot who flew it (he was Squadron Leader with the other 5 airplanes) into the Nuclear Test Site and walked away. He was a great person and have movie/video of him and his story. Also we found original test pilot for the airplane - great story. Should be properly documented.
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aseanaero; I cannot be certain of this but I remember a fair while ago now reading somewhere (possibly in a Time magazine) that the US Government had passed legislation to the effect that declares that any abandoned US Military equipment is still US property.
Apparently the US air force has a more pragmatic view and don't claim title , the problem now is dealing with the 'host country' . The guys that salvaged a B-17 'Swamp Ghost' has had all sorts of problems with the PNG government.
During the '90s a few WW2 Japanese aircraft wrecks were recovered from Indonesia and the salvagers traded the Indonesian government a very nice flyable Catalina for the Air Force Museum in Jogyakarta.
There's now a 7,000 page document from UNESCO on the recovery of aviation artifacts and the big issue for remote finds is war graves if there was any fatalities involved.
I am Tony's younger brother
Maybe as a first step you could post a short version of the Emu Junction story here , it's so long ago and so many legends about the Mustang recovery it would be good to get a short summary from someone who was actually there.
I'm still in the Big Durian , it must be 7 yrs since we last met in Jakarta
Sent you a PM
Regards
TG
Last edited by aseanaero; 6th Jun 2009 at 05:19.
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Paul SC.
Hello Paul,
And where is th bigger brother Deano? I have not seen him for yonks, since the 'Optics' funeral in Brisso years ago.
And where is th bigger brother Deano? I have not seen him for yonks, since the 'Optics' funeral in Brisso years ago.
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I'm sure there are some
I remember flying "up north" and seeing a couple of large trenches from the air. I was curious and went for a closer look after landing, and found some big radial engines in the trenches. nearby there was what looked like a wingtip protruding from the ground.
I reckon they buried lots of aviation bits and peices there, and had not completely filled the trenches.
That was some time ago, but I bet it's still there.
I reckon they buried lots of aviation bits and peices there, and had not completely filled the trenches.
That was some time ago, but I bet it's still there.
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Now to get back to the "formating Mustang". The way I remember it (being told by the pilot of the aircraft and yes, I can swear that he was the owner of not one but two of them) was that it was in Western Queensland.
The owner of the beastie was a well known Sydney doctor, who happened to own properties in NSW and Q'ld. At the time of the formation he had at least one of the aircraft in Q'ld and used to do the occasional flight, as one would.
I cannot now remember the precise details but he either heard the DCA F27 on the radio and decided to formate or he had come down through cloud and saw the aircraft and decided to formate. Whatever, he soon vanished when the crew of the F27 appeared to get upset.
I believe that particular aircraft was the one that Donald Busch (sp?) died in when he spun it in at the opening of an aerodrome in Victoria.
DCA were well aware of the presence of both Mustangs when they visited the doctor's NSW property to conduct a maintenance test on a LAME who was getting checked out on the doctor's other aircraft, a brace of Ryans'. He also owned a Lockheed 10 or 12, I can't remember which now. The engineer was asked what was in the other shed (there being two quite large sheds in this particular paddock) to be told that it was only a hay shed. The DCA examiners scoffed and mentioned that was where the Mustangs were kept.
When I met the gentleman the second aircraft was being sold but I cannot remember now who bought the thing. This was in 1972.
The owner of the beastie was a well known Sydney doctor, who happened to own properties in NSW and Q'ld. At the time of the formation he had at least one of the aircraft in Q'ld and used to do the occasional flight, as one would.
I cannot now remember the precise details but he either heard the DCA F27 on the radio and decided to formate or he had come down through cloud and saw the aircraft and decided to formate. Whatever, he soon vanished when the crew of the F27 appeared to get upset.
I believe that particular aircraft was the one that Donald Busch (sp?) died in when he spun it in at the opening of an aerodrome in Victoria.
DCA were well aware of the presence of both Mustangs when they visited the doctor's NSW property to conduct a maintenance test on a LAME who was getting checked out on the doctor's other aircraft, a brace of Ryans'. He also owned a Lockheed 10 or 12, I can't remember which now. The engineer was asked what was in the other shed (there being two quite large sheds in this particular paddock) to be told that it was only a hay shed. The DCA examiners scoffed and mentioned that was where the Mustangs were kept.
When I met the gentleman the second aircraft was being sold but I cannot remember now who bought the thing. This was in 1972.
Last edited by PLovett; 17th Aug 2011 at 09:22. Reason: To correct a mistake,
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Mustangs at Emu. South Australia Video Part 1 to 3
The previous pages tell the story, but to save many going back over it all. Six Mustang aircraft were subjected to atomic tests at ‘Emu Field’ in outback South Australia on morning of 15 October 1953. The aircraft had been taken from store at Tocumwal, NSW and flown to Emu Field in April 1953. In late 1967, after some 14 years in the desert, the aircraft were sold. An ex-RAAF Air Frame Fitter and later Commercial Pilot, Tony Schwerdt, was the successful tenderer who then set about bringing the aircraft back to Adelaide. He managed to refit one, A68-1, and fly it to to Cooper Pedy, South Australia. After a short repair and DCA approval he flew it to Parafield Airport, Adelaide. The remainder were all trucked out to Port Adelaide then all shipped to the USA in 1968. .
I found this video which is a documentary about the recovery. I’ve broken it into 3 sections taking 40 minutes overall.
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
I found this video which is a documentary about the recovery. I’ve broken it into 3 sections taking 40 minutes overall.
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]
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Since this thread has been resurrected the aircraft that Donald Busch was killed in was previously owned by a gentleman in Sydney who owned a number of properties in NSW and Qld. He also owned two P51s'. The first was sold to Donald Busch and the second to a man in Sydney whose name I forget.
I met a LAME who had been responsible for the maintenance on both aircraft before their sale and he was present when Busch crashed. He estimated the aircraft was about 1,500' AGL in a steep turn when it stalled and flicked into a spin. The original crash comic said it spun 4 times. This man said a P51 would lose a 1,000' a turn in a spin and there was no way it spun 4 times. He attributed the crash to poor handling by pulling too hard in a steep turn causing it to stall. The CG problem mentioned earlier may well have been a contributing factor.
For those who know their aviation stories there is the one about a then DCA F27 being formatted on by a (variously) Spitfire/Mustang/WW2 aircraft in the 1960s'. When asked to identify itself the aircraft pulled up and away through cloud and disappeared. That aircraft was a Mustang and was one of the two owned by the gentleman from Sydney. At the time the aircraft was located on one of his properties in Qld not far from the NT border. This was told to me by the owner standing next to the aircraft that he was in the process of selling.
I met a LAME who had been responsible for the maintenance on both aircraft before their sale and he was present when Busch crashed. He estimated the aircraft was about 1,500' AGL in a steep turn when it stalled and flicked into a spin. The original crash comic said it spun 4 times. This man said a P51 would lose a 1,000' a turn in a spin and there was no way it spun 4 times. He attributed the crash to poor handling by pulling too hard in a steep turn causing it to stall. The CG problem mentioned earlier may well have been a contributing factor.
For those who know their aviation stories there is the one about a then DCA F27 being formatted on by a (variously) Spitfire/Mustang/WW2 aircraft in the 1960s'. When asked to identify itself the aircraft pulled up and away through cloud and disappeared. That aircraft was a Mustang and was one of the two owned by the gentleman from Sydney. At the time the aircraft was located on one of his properties in Qld not far from the NT border. This was told to me by the owner standing next to the aircraft that he was in the process of selling.
If my memory serves me correctly, the Col Pay Mustang came off a property in western Queensland somewhere, where it had been kept in reasonable condition. Story goes that the cow (or sheep) cocky that owned used to start it up every so often and taxy it up and down his airstrip.
A couple of years back I contacted Tony Fisher who lived in Tasmania and got his permission to update his story and have it published in Pacific Flyer magazine. I called the story "It wouldn't happen nowadays"
The opening paragraph of his story started thus:
"My love affair with a P51 started when I was approached by a non-ferrous metal dealer from Taren Point. He knew I had a PPL and asked if I would be interested in buying an aeroplane he had obtained by tender to melt down for pots and pans. The name P51 didn't mean a great deal at the time other than it was some sort of fighter. My first aeroplane was a Fairchild Argus which I bought from Sammy Dodd, who gave me my PPL.
I took my wife Helen to look at the Argus. She took one looked and claimed`you needn't think I'm getting into that thing. That's the old paper plane from Moree. My father went to Sydney once in that and said he could have got there quicker on a push bike`. That's what you get for marrying a nurse from Moree.
When the non-ferrous dealer mentioned the Mustang's 400 MPH cruise I thought of Helen's father on a push bike. I was sold. The price having been agreed upon was 300 pounds"
............................................................ ................
Of course the story gets better and I suggest if you want to hear more you contact AOPA or Pacific Flyer magazine and get a back copy.
In fact Tony Fisher finished up owning two Mustangs based at Jerilderie I think. I left the RAAF in October 1969 and joined DCA. There were a few of us ex RAAF pilots behind desks there and bored fartless at the mind-numbing bureacracy. Bruce Clark an ex Hercules QFI was one of them and we had adjacent offices. One day he showed me a small photo from his wallet of him in the cockpit of a Mustang in a field somewhere in western NSW. The Mustang didn't have a canopy on it and seemed to be covered in bird droppings. .
The problem was lack of glycol coolant essential for the RR Merlin. So Bruce contacted a squadron mate who was a flight engineer at 36 Sqn Richmond and managed to get a few gallons of glycol brought down by car to the property. The Mustang owner knew Bruce was a RAAF pilot and invited him to fly his Mustang - albeit with no canopy. Bruce had never flown a Mustang but he had a few hundred hours on Wirraways which was near enough.
I too had flown Wirraways and also Mustangs and believe me if you could handle a Wirraway there was no real problem with flying a Mustang. In fact I had only 210 hours in my log book when I first flew a Mustang.
Bruce would drive from Richmond to the property (it may have been called "Canarney" which is 5000 acres at Jerilderie because that was where Tony Fisher had one of his Mustangs I think). Bruce Clark would do a few circuits in the open cockpit Mustang and then drive back to Richmond. A couple of other RAAF pilots had a go at it too.
............................................................ ..................
Before completing this Pprune post I must add one more story in Tony Fishers article. Tony by now had a few hours on his Mustang. Previously he had only flown lighties and his Argus and a Ryan ST. He tried a short field landing in his Mustang at the homestead Canarney and ground looped. In his words:
"In sheer desperation I applied full right rudder. Round she went in a great cloud of dust coming to rest not far from the fence and the entrance from the main road. A passing motorist seeing the dust and commotion drove straight in and up to the aeroplane, just as was winding back the canopy.
"Are you all right, mate?'
"Course I'm all right" I claimed, not wishing to emphasise my predicament.
"I thought you'd crashed"
"No way, that was a normal precautionary short landing"
"Oh yeah"- he sounded a bit sceptical. "What sort of aeroplane is that?"
"A four bladed Ryan", I lied.
"How fast will it go?"
"400 knots"
"What's it worth?"
"Four hundred quid"
"I'm learning to fly next year. I was going to buy a Cessna, but now that I've seen one close up, I think I'll buy a Ryan".
............................................................ .......................................
Last edited by Centaurus; 13th Aug 2011 at 13:34.