Jetstar A321
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Originally Posted by PattyStacker
With JQ now able to operate the 320's with 4 crew as opposed to 5 there will be extra crew surplus so to speak so I guess that could fill the void.
1 crew member per 50 pax on the 320 is 4 crew.
1 crew member per 50 pax on the 321 is 5 crew.
1 crew member per 50 pax on the 320 is 4 crew.
1 crew member per 50 pax on the 321 is 5 crew.
Originally Posted by Bolty McBolt
My point revolves around the type of door. The doors fitted to a A321 need to be operated by CC during an emergency egress unlike the the overwing exits on a A320 which are opened by adjacent pax.
This means min of 6 - 7 CC per A321
This means min of 6 - 7 CC per A321
) - CASA has granted an exemption that allows the B738 for QF/VB the A320 for JQ to operate with 4 crew (not sure about the B734?). This exemption applies specifically to the aircraft types mentioned in the exemption - the current pax to crew (1:36) still stands. Bolty is on the right track with reference to the Type A doors - they are not self help doors, and require crew to operate them.Interesting times ahead if JQ have indeed ordered A321's...
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It will be a cabin crew of 5.......
jq sourcing 3 to get asap with another 3 to follow soon after......
believe it or not it's gonna happen......
they will be flying mel-ool to start off with then into south east asia to follow tiger!!
jq sourcing 3 to get asap with another 3 to follow soon after......
believe it or not it's gonna happen......
they will be flying mel-ool to start off with then into south east asia to follow tiger!!
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Re: Cabin crew of 5...
Problem with that logic (in my opinion...however incorrect):
A320 a/c have 4 primary door exits = 4 cabin crew under the dispensation given by CASA for the A320 specifically. Dispensation details stipulate 1:50 ratio PROVIDED 1 FA per main door exit.
A321 has 8 door exits (4 same size as A320 + 4 smaller size doors, similar - but not the same as - A330-200 doors located after overwing).
Using the logic of 5 crew for the A321, you have 2 crew for doors L1/R1, 2 crew for doors L4/R4 (rearmost doors) + 1 FA left over to man 2 pairs of door exits (?)...willing to be corrected, but I would be most interested to see if CASA let this one thru with that kind of ratio. I'm not aware of any major passenger jet aircraft in use in Australia that has any main deck door exit unmanned by FA's.
I know JQ would love nothing more, since the passenger increase over the A320 is only about 40-50 range...but...call me slow, I just don't get how they could get away with 5 crew on an A321 with 8 door exits...in Australia at least.
Then again...stranger things have happened...
Problem with that logic (in my opinion...however incorrect):
A320 a/c have 4 primary door exits = 4 cabin crew under the dispensation given by CASA for the A320 specifically. Dispensation details stipulate 1:50 ratio PROVIDED 1 FA per main door exit.
A321 has 8 door exits (4 same size as A320 + 4 smaller size doors, similar - but not the same as - A330-200 doors located after overwing).
Using the logic of 5 crew for the A321, you have 2 crew for doors L1/R1, 2 crew for doors L4/R4 (rearmost doors) + 1 FA left over to man 2 pairs of door exits (?)...willing to be corrected, but I would be most interested to see if CASA let this one thru with that kind of ratio. I'm not aware of any major passenger jet aircraft in use in Australia that has any main deck door exit unmanned by FA's.
I know JQ would love nothing more, since the passenger increase over the A320 is only about 40-50 range...but...call me slow, I just don't get how they could get away with 5 crew on an A321 with 8 door exits...in Australia at least.
Then again...stranger things have happened...
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A321 has 8 door exits (4 same size as A320 + 4 smaller size doors, similar - but not the same as - A330-200 doors located after overwing).
In any case, it shall be interesting to see what happens. As mentioned before, it really makes no sense to launch the 321 as the added passenger benefit (40 seats?) weighed against the crewing req and complication to the LCC, but stranger things have been known to happen. Given the separation of two cabins on the 321 by a galley, perhaps a domestic StarClass is on the horizon given DJ's premium Y announcement?
All hypothetical, of course.
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ANStar,
Ryanair and SW operated Classic 737s only whilst their NGs were being delivered (you can't replace a complete fleet overnight) and in FR's case, all the Classics are now gone; they are all-738 with another hundred or two on order.
Likewise Easy still had some 737s from a previous order still to be delivered, when they ordered their A319s (I recall there were no A320s in their original order, but I may be wrong there) - I seem to recall a comment from the then CEO of EZY along the lines that, as directors of a public company, they would've been criminally liable had they not accepted the deal on offer from Airbus, even though the operational preference was for more 737s...
My point is that it is unusual, if you want to mix your routes. If you operate essentially two separate operations, then fine - so you'll never see a VB jungle jet doing YSSY-YMML in place of a VB 738; there might also be some strips where you could get an Emb in, but not a 738.
EZY operate all their bases like separate airlines but can move a/c around if necessary - so whilst they were phasing the 737s out, they put all the incoming 319s into the Geneva base (with HB- rego), then did each base in turn, changing the fleet over pretty rapidly in each case.
You're right, some LCCs do operate different types (or variants of the same type) but it adds to the cost base and so starts to erode the 'LC' bit of 'LCC'.
But like I wrote earlier, the less the logic - the greater the probability.
Ryanair and SW operated Classic 737s only whilst their NGs were being delivered (you can't replace a complete fleet overnight) and in FR's case, all the Classics are now gone; they are all-738 with another hundred or two on order.
Likewise Easy still had some 737s from a previous order still to be delivered, when they ordered their A319s (I recall there were no A320s in their original order, but I may be wrong there) - I seem to recall a comment from the then CEO of EZY along the lines that, as directors of a public company, they would've been criminally liable had they not accepted the deal on offer from Airbus, even though the operational preference was for more 737s...
My point is that it is unusual, if you want to mix your routes. If you operate essentially two separate operations, then fine - so you'll never see a VB jungle jet doing YSSY-YMML in place of a VB 738; there might also be some strips where you could get an Emb in, but not a 738.
EZY operate all their bases like separate airlines but can move a/c around if necessary - so whilst they were phasing the 737s out, they put all the incoming 319s into the Geneva base (with HB- rego), then did each base in turn, changing the fleet over pretty rapidly in each case.
You're right, some LCCs do operate different types (or variants of the same type) but it adds to the cost base and so starts to erode the 'LC' bit of 'LCC'.
But like I wrote earlier, the less the logic - the greater the probability
.
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I know that Virgin Express used to operate their 737-300 with only 3 crew and they had 4 main deck doors.
Cabin Chief at the front and the 2 crew down the back. The CC used to be responsible for opening the 2 doors if push came to shove.
Friends at BA used to operate the 757 with 6 crew and the 757 had 8 doors. 2 crew at the front. 1 crew at doors 2L/R. 1 crew and doors 3L/R and 2 crew at doors 4 L/R. Similar to the A321 layout
I guess if they introduce the A321 to JQ the crew will be looking after more than 1 door. Not too hard to arm and disarm 2 doors I guess
Only time will tell I guess
Cabin Chief at the front and the 2 crew down the back. The CC used to be responsible for opening the 2 doors if push came to shove.
Friends at BA used to operate the 757 with 6 crew and the 757 had 8 doors. 2 crew at the front. 1 crew at doors 2L/R. 1 crew and doors 3L/R and 2 crew at doors 4 L/R. Similar to the A321 layout
I guess if they introduce the A321 to JQ the crew will be looking after more than 1 door. Not too hard to arm and disarm 2 doors I guess
Only time will tell I guess
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Different rules and regulations apply in Australia (set out by CASA) than those that UK and European airlines operate under (JAA/CAA etc), so unfortunately you can't really compare them....
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PattyStacker.....But they might follow the guidelines of UK and european carriers.. i.e. 1:50 ratio.
They might put the A380 on the Sydney/Canberra run but I doubt it....
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Heard 3x A321 from Mar-Apr08. They should have 6 C/crew as there are 6 floor level cabin doors (plus 2 non). Understand cap will be around 210. The new A320 (x9) on order are seperate to this.
Taildragger...SW still operates classic 737 now and lots of them.
Taildragger...SW still operates classic 737 now and lots of them.
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Sorry if mentioned on previous thread but QF 767's meant to be taking over Classic flying to Perth from Melbourne and back as half of the classic load is jetstar code share. As jetstar are getting more aircraft they will want to do the route themselves and as such no further need for the extra mainline capacity. As I am not an Airbus guy would the A321's suit this route better than the A320?
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I heard the 321s are going to be put on the Cairns-Darwin-Singapore and Perth-Bali-Singapore runs. The StarClass cabin mentioned earlier was also tipped to be on the cards as it would be on a JQ international service...
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Some posters here believe the A321 will be no good for a LCC. A320's are very hard to come by at the moment. I think AJ and the team have been crunching numbers and seen that these a/c are the answer to a lower cost base vs an A320(Tiger) on smaller, popular routes (ie, <1000nm).
This will put downward pressure on airfares (to remain competitive) and allow more seating availability without increasing airframes on already busy routes.
This may result in releasing A320 frames to increase other markets and/or introduce new ones.
This will put downward pressure on airfares (to remain competitive) and allow more seating availability without increasing airframes on already busy routes.
This may result in releasing A320 frames to increase other markets and/or introduce new ones.