BE36 (G36) parked at YBTL today! (Merged)
Thread Starter
"The elevation of that airport is 1286 ft with 4051 ft of runway available but California has had some pretty hot weather over the last week."
What!
4051' long at 1300' elevation?
In that case I don't think this prang had anything to do with "high and hot".
I would not think twice about taking the V35B out of there at MTOW on the hottest of days.
I wonder it he did an intersection departure and the aeroplane was not going as fast as it looked in the video when it lifted off. Would also be interesting to know how it was loaded.
It is possible to overload an A36 out the back of the envelope - as a woman demonstrated at YBAF many years ago. Failed to stay airborne after departing off the 4800' main runway - ended up in a creek off the western end.
Dr
What!
4051' long at 1300' elevation?
In that case I don't think this prang had anything to do with "high and hot".
I would not think twice about taking the V35B out of there at MTOW on the hottest of days.
I wonder it he did an intersection departure and the aeroplane was not going as fast as it looked in the video when it lifted off. Would also be interesting to know how it was loaded.
It is possible to overload an A36 out the back of the envelope - as a woman demonstrated at YBAF many years ago. Failed to stay airborne after departing off the 4800' main runway - ended up in a creek off the western end.
Dr
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Poor buggers must have had some sort of power issue after rotation. The Bo sure sounded like it was making full power as it went past the camera. Sickening bit of footage to watch
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Is that a tailwind component I see too?
One thing I did note whilst flying along in a G36 (unfortunately it wasn't mine) was that the glareshield was appreciably higher than an A36 with the old panel. This suprised me. I would've thought the PFD/MFD would have saved some space. It does I suppose, but they certainly sit higher in the panel. Where they do save space is up under the panel. There's nothing there! Nice panel, but I thought the interior was a little plain jane. It was nicely done, as anything from Beech is, it just looked a little bare.
So would I plump for the Cirrus instead ? Sorry, but not for me. They're overrated, oversexed (as the accident rate suggests) and overhere.
Anytime you bolt a big engine to a relatively small airframe, your gonna go fast. The 182RG I fly is only 20kts behind a Cirrus on 80hp less.
It'll be the G36 for me.
So would I plump for the Cirrus instead ? Sorry, but not for me. They're overrated, oversexed (as the accident rate suggests) and overhere.
Anytime you bolt a big engine to a relatively small airframe, your gonna go fast. The 182RG I fly is only 20kts behind a Cirrus on 80hp less.
It'll be the G36 for me.
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I know its all armchair critics here, but I first thought it was a left quater tailwind and possible aft CofG.....you guys who know more than me confirm my thoughts.
Awful mistake if thats how simple it was.
Awful mistake if thats how simple it was.
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Big long runway.... only 4 people (the people in the footage didn't look very big).. they must have had a huge load in the back to put it out of COG. The ground run didn't seem that long to me, so maybe an intersection departure? I would love to know what really happened. It scares the hell out of me seeing that aircraft crash after such a normal looking take-off. I'm backing engine failure
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It wasn't an intersection departure because you can clearly see her crossing what looks to be displaced threshold markings. The way it get the wobbles up just after take-off makes me think that it's something like standing waves from the ridge or mechanical turb from the houses.
Walrus
Walrus
Grandpa Aerotart
Yup...a quartering tailwind from the left and no consideration for how the terrain/obstructions are effecting that wind through the takeoff roll and just airborne.
It is something PNG taught you to pay attention to...visualising the wind...think of it like water flowing over rocks and waterfalls in a river...water and air are both fluids and they exhibit the same flow characteristics.
At first glance the runway seems well and truly long enough...BUT.
Hot (apparently) and highish...DA might have been 3000'+...higher still if a low QNH was also contributing.
Quartering tailwind...possibly all tailwind for a part of the takeoff roll.
Getting airborne into an area of swirling, sinking, air that was probably increasing in strength slightly just off the ground, or due gusts...note wing rocking.
Possibility that the pilot perceived, due to increasing tailwind component during takeoff, the aircraft was travelling at much higher speed than it was, ground speed v airspeed, when he pulled it off the ground...having said that it seems to get airborne ok and then just doesn't go anywhere...partial power loss is possible but I'd think windshear more likely.
Possibly the pilot tries to adopt a 'normal' climb, or even higher than normal, climb attitude because obstructions are rushing toward him distracting his attention from the ASI. Drag increases and aircraft settles back onto the (rough) ground with the observed results.
It will be interesting to see what the accident report comes up with.
It is something PNG taught you to pay attention to...visualising the wind...think of it like water flowing over rocks and waterfalls in a river...water and air are both fluids and they exhibit the same flow characteristics.
At first glance the runway seems well and truly long enough...BUT.
Hot (apparently) and highish...DA might have been 3000'+...higher still if a low QNH was also contributing.
Quartering tailwind...possibly all tailwind for a part of the takeoff roll.
Getting airborne into an area of swirling, sinking, air that was probably increasing in strength slightly just off the ground, or due gusts...note wing rocking.
Possibility that the pilot perceived, due to increasing tailwind component during takeoff, the aircraft was travelling at much higher speed than it was, ground speed v airspeed, when he pulled it off the ground...having said that it seems to get airborne ok and then just doesn't go anywhere...partial power loss is possible but I'd think windshear more likely.
Possibly the pilot tries to adopt a 'normal' climb, or even higher than normal, climb attitude because obstructions are rushing toward him distracting his attention from the ASI. Drag increases and aircraft settles back onto the (rough) ground with the observed results.
It will be interesting to see what the accident report comes up with.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 5th Sep 2007 at 04:15.
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It is possible to overload an A36 out the back of the envelope - as a woman demonstrated at YBAF many years ago. Failed to stay airborne after departing off the 4800' main runway - ended up in a creek off the western end.
The thing lifted off at about 45-50 kt and staggered across the boundary with her unable to exert enough down force on the yoke to make the thing level into a normal attitude, tried to trim it down by turning the trim wheel the wrong way, and didn't just shut the power off when it lifted of waaay too slow.
I've driven the FTDK and the straight Bonza in VMC and IMC, at night and by day....the A36 is a very nice aeroplane, so is the V35. Anyone who wants a lesson in what a really NASTY stall feels like, get an experienced driver to demo an accelerated partial power turning stall in a FTDK......
Don't spend close on a mil to buy a new one though.....get a 2nd hand B36TC in the States for 250-300K, paint and interior it, retrofit a G600(?) I think it is...the aftermarket equivalent of the G1000, and enjoy.
Grandpa Aerotart
Better yet buy a B36TC with a run out engine and throw a GAMI spec TNIO550B on the front.
VASTLY better engine combined with the long wings/extra fuel of the B36TC (Baron 58 wing) would produce an absolute CORKER!!!
The TSIO unit on the B36TC has cooling and TBO issues.
VASTLY better engine combined with the long wings/extra fuel of the B36TC (Baron 58 wing) would produce an absolute CORKER!!!
The TSIO unit on the B36TC has cooling and TBO issues.
Thread Starter
"Anyone who wants a lesson in what a really NASTY stall feels like, get an experienced driver to demo an accelerated partial power turning stall in a FTDK......"
Jamair
I am surprised by your remark.
Last year after doing my IR renewal, I offered "Sideshow" Bob Harris a lap in the FTDK. In good, instructor/aerobatic sytle, Bob's idea of "going for a lap" was to take it out into the training area and stall it - every which way you could imagine, including accelerated partial power turning stalls.
I was surprised to find it was reasonable docile in all configurations and gave fair warning of what was about to happen.
Dr
Jamair
I am surprised by your remark.
Last year after doing my IR renewal, I offered "Sideshow" Bob Harris a lap in the FTDK. In good, instructor/aerobatic sytle, Bob's idea of "going for a lap" was to take it out into the training area and stall it - every which way you could imagine, including accelerated partial power turning stalls.
I was surprised to find it was reasonable docile in all configurations and gave fair warning of what was about to happen.
Dr
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Why??
That Bonanza in the video was either overloaded, or not dveloping full power, or had a strong tailwind. Or a downburst. Maybe a combination of these.
Alice springs is 1789 ft amsl, and has many 40 degree days. Most GA, aircraft can handle this with a 4000 ft runway. Some may have to reduce max take off weight.
Alice springs is 1789 ft amsl, and has many 40 degree days. Most GA, aircraft can handle this with a 4000 ft runway. Some may have to reduce max take off weight.