BE36 (G36) parked at YBTL today! (Merged)
Grandpa Aerotart
What is all this crap about 62 year old design?
The original BE36 came out in 1968...that is 40 years. The basic airframe hasn't changed in that time but everything else about it has...engine/prop/avionics/interior layout...so the shell design hasn't changed? Probably because it was near perfect...those features that were deemed less than as good as they could be were changed in 1980..the throw over yoke and ergonomically less than wonderfull engine control layout.
It is still in prodUction because it is a GREAT aircraft...if the V35 was still being built you might have an argument for a '62 year old design' but it isn't because it, while very sexy to look at, was not a great aeroplane.
What has come along that is as good or better, on any level, than an A36?
That goes as fast and carries as much and is built as strongly and that has the safety features?
A Cirrus?
Good aeroplane but it has the same engine/prop and avionics and 2 less seats...it's a little faster and that is all...the BRS is interesting but I don't find it compelling. The only thing 'modern' about the Cirrus is the airframe construction materials.
And don't say C210...they predate the A36.
The original BE36 came out in 1968...that is 40 years. The basic airframe hasn't changed in that time but everything else about it has...engine/prop/avionics/interior layout...so the shell design hasn't changed? Probably because it was near perfect...those features that were deemed less than as good as they could be were changed in 1980..the throw over yoke and ergonomically less than wonderfull engine control layout.
It is still in prodUction because it is a GREAT aircraft...if the V35 was still being built you might have an argument for a '62 year old design' but it isn't because it, while very sexy to look at, was not a great aeroplane.
What has come along that is as good or better, on any level, than an A36?
That goes as fast and carries as much and is built as strongly and that has the safety features?
A Cirrus?
Good aeroplane but it has the same engine/prop and avionics and 2 less seats...it's a little faster and that is all...the BRS is interesting but I don't find it compelling. The only thing 'modern' about the Cirrus is the airframe construction materials.
And don't say C210...they predate the A36.
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FTDK,
Absolutely I am talking about FWE. Everyone attached to that plane was devastated. She was a handful at speed but more fun to fly than the A36. A real sportscar and well looked after. I don't subscribe to Chuckles' view that the BE35 was never a great aeroplane. Only two aircraft were named amongst the 100 greatest designs of the 20th century; the DC3 was one and the FTDK was the other.
I am suffering from V35 withdrawal.
Walrus
Absolutely I am talking about FWE. Everyone attached to that plane was devastated. She was a handful at speed but more fun to fly than the A36. A real sportscar and well looked after. I don't subscribe to Chuckles' view that the BE35 was never a great aeroplane. Only two aircraft were named amongst the 100 greatest designs of the 20th century; the DC3 was one and the FTDK was the other.
I am suffering from V35 withdrawal.
Walrus
Grandpa Aerotart
Walrus they are very good aeroplanes...once they fixed the tail so it wouldn't fall off...and with a yaw damper installed...and with a turbonormaliser to move the CofG forward (or a lead weight but at least the TN gives you something besides a better CofG)...and with tip tanks to give you the usefull load to use all the seats once the CofG is controlled...the TN gives you more TOW too.
With all those things done they are a GREAT aircraft...as they left the factory they were just a VERY sexy, fast 3 seater that makes the back seater a little airsick in turbulence.
With all those things done they are a GREAT aircraft...as they left the factory they were just a VERY sexy, fast 3 seater that makes the back seater a little airsick in turbulence.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 3rd Sep 2007 at 07:22.
Thread Starter
"...as they left the factory they were just a VERY sexy, fast 3 seater that makes the back seater a little airsick in turbulence."
True story, except for "makes the back seater a little airsick in turbulence".
The V-tail Bo will make the back seater VERY airsick in turbulence!
Many a puke was had in the back seat of FWE when it operated out of Cloncurry!
Dr
"True story, except for "makes the back seater a little airsick in turbulence".
The V-tail Bo will make the back seater VERY airsick in turbulence!
Many a puke was had in the back seat of FWE when it operated out of Cloncurry!
Dr
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Chimbu Chuck
I never thought the day would come when I would correct you on Bonanza knowlege, so ....I hope like heck I am right.....coz the beers at the aero club next time you are in town are on the loser!
I have a DVD One Six Right, and I swear there is a very early Bo in that and its just post war, so I just thought I would do some homework, and 60 years is true!
Now a fair bit may have changed of course from those days to the 60's of the unforked tail, but it seems the Bo is a very proud 60 this year!
When you in town next
?
Cheers
J
I never thought the day would come when I would correct you on Bonanza knowlege, so ....I hope like heck I am right.....coz the beers at the aero club next time you are in town are on the loser!
I have a DVD One Six Right, and I swear there is a very early Bo in that and its just post war, so I just thought I would do some homework, and 60 years is true!
1940's
- During World War II, more than 14,000 Beechcrafters produce some 7,400 airplanes for the United States and Allied armed forces. It is estimated that 90 percent of all U.S. Army Air Corps bombardiers and navigators are trained in AT-7 and AT-11 aircraft—derivatives of the Beechcraft Model 18.
- Following the war, in 1947, Beech introduces the Model 35 Beech Bonanza. The new Beech is a high-performance, single-engine, business airplane. Its record for continuous production is still lengthening.
When you in town next
?Cheers
J
Last edited by Jabawocky; 3rd Sep 2007 at 08:51.
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Hey DOC,
I think you are actually on my side of the bar on this one, so get back over here ya big chicken......at least so I can have help in paying the bar tab at the end IF I get dusted!
J
I think you are actually on my side of the bar on this one, so get back over here ya big chicken......at least so I can have help in paying the bar tab at the end IF I get dusted!
J
Last edited by Jabawocky; 3rd Sep 2007 at 09:12. Reason: spelling
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One Six Right
Hey Jaba,
Is that DVD any good? I saw a copy (and the soundtrack?!) on eBay recently but a google search didn't tell me whether or not it was worth buying, except mention of some interesting aerial cinematography.
LP
PS Never EVER thought I'd see FTDK or Chuckles corrected regarding a Bo...
Is that DVD any good? I saw a copy (and the soundtrack?!) on eBay recently but a google search didn't tell me whether or not it was worth buying, except mention of some interesting aerial cinematography.
LP
PS Never EVER thought I'd see FTDK or Chuckles corrected regarding a Bo...
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McQuack, it is very good. Very moving stories and wonderful stories, and a message to all about the shrinking available GA airports and ALA's.
For say $30 its well worth it. I have a big theatre, and all the sound gear and the music is awesome....crank it up!!
J
For say $30 its well worth it. I have a big theatre, and all the sound gear and the music is awesome....crank it up!!
J
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re: One Six Right
Gotcha...I now own a copy, assuming it doesn't go 'missing' in the post. Somebody else can buy it off me once I've seen it, any takers?
Back on topic, there is a mint Bo that passes through my way from time to time but no idea of the reg...it's a private hack for a bloke who lives in 2 cities on my Island...it's a hard life for some
Chuckles, check your PMs!
LP
Back on topic, there is a mint Bo that passes through my way from time to time but no idea of the reg...it's a private hack for a bloke who lives in 2 cities on my Island...it's a hard life for some
Chuckles, check your PMs!
LP
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FWIW:
Designed by a team led by Ralph Harmon, the original model 35 Bonanza was the first truly modern high-performance personal aircraft: a very fast, all-metal, low-wing monoplane at a time when most light aircraft were still made of wood and fabric. The model 35 featured retractable landing gear and its signature V-tail, which made it both highly efficient and the most distinctive private aircraft in the sky. The prototype 35 Bonanza made its first flight on December 22, 1945, with the first production aircraft debuting as 1947 models.
In 1982 the V-tail Bonanza was dropped from production, though more than 6,000 V-tail models are still flying today. In general aviation circles, the epithet "fork-tailed doctor killer" became a familiar denigration of the V-tail model. The phrase plays on Luftwaffe references to the Lockheed P-38 Lightning as the "fork-tailed devil," but it mainly derides physicians' perceived lack of piloting experience (due to little spare time available) and a tendency to buy expensive high-performance planes that are a poor fit for inexperienced pilots. Many model 35 Bonanzas are still flying, and they command a premium price on the used aircraft market. A V-tail Bonanza that is in compliance with all of the pertinent Airworthiness Directives is a safe aircraft which is coveted by pilots worldwide for its performance, handling, speed and comfort.
Designed by a team led by Ralph Harmon, the original model 35 Bonanza was the first truly modern high-performance personal aircraft: a very fast, all-metal, low-wing monoplane at a time when most light aircraft were still made of wood and fabric. The model 35 featured retractable landing gear and its signature V-tail, which made it both highly efficient and the most distinctive private aircraft in the sky. The prototype 35 Bonanza made its first flight on December 22, 1945, with the first production aircraft debuting as 1947 models.
In 1982 the V-tail Bonanza was dropped from production, though more than 6,000 V-tail models are still flying today. In general aviation circles, the epithet "fork-tailed doctor killer" became a familiar denigration of the V-tail model. The phrase plays on Luftwaffe references to the Lockheed P-38 Lightning as the "fork-tailed devil," but it mainly derides physicians' perceived lack of piloting experience (due to little spare time available) and a tendency to buy expensive high-performance planes that are a poor fit for inexperienced pilots. Many model 35 Bonanzas are still flying, and they command a premium price on the used aircraft market. A V-tail Bonanza that is in compliance with all of the pertinent Airworthiness Directives is a safe aircraft which is coveted by pilots worldwide for its performance, handling, speed and comfort.
Thread Starter
"A V-tail Bonanza that is in compliance with all of the pertinent Airworthiness Directives is a safe aircraft which is coveted by pilots worldwide for its performance, handling, speed and comfort."
... it is effectively a 3 seater aircraft - a very nice, fast 3 seater but a 3 seater none-the-less!
Dr
... it is effectively a 3 seater aircraft - a very nice, fast 3 seater but a 3 seater none-the-less!
Dr
Back on topic, there is a mint Bo that passes through my way from time to time but no idea of the reg...it's a private hack for a bloke who lives in 2 cities on my Island...it's a hard life for some
Give me a Comanche 260C any day, more room than a Bo, nearly as fast, good payload, fantastic range with tip tanks, and no wing attachment issues, and better looking to boot. We could just get a real mans aircraft the Comanche 400, now that is a classic aircraft.
Standing back with hard hat on!!!!!!!!!!
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I checked google, and for the second time tonight it let me down. ZK-UTE came up as an ag machine that had an accident. The machine I have in mind is immaculate, the owner obviously takes a lot of pride in it. I do recall seeing some aerial pics of it in a Pacific Wings magazine a year or two ago.
Yes, a Crunchie 260C may have a little more room...and good payload...although "better looking to boot" is debateble!
There are 2 other issues with the Crunchie as well;
1. It IS slower, if only by a few knots...
2. It's not a Bonanza
LP
Yes, a Crunchie 260C may have a little more room...and good payload...although "better looking to boot" is debateble!
There are 2 other issues with the Crunchie as well;1. It IS slower, if only by a few knots...
2. It's not a Bonanza
LP
Thread Starter
"Give me a Comanche 260C any day"
No comment, really! Well maybe a couple.
One of the few common SE lighties that I have not flown - along with the Arrow, would you believe.
Always liked the look of the Comanche.
There was a 400 based in Townsville for years - never managed to get my hands on it.
I understand that the thought of the 400 was better than the reality!
Dr
No comment, really! Well maybe a couple.
One of the few common SE lighties that I have not flown - along with the Arrow, would you believe.
Always liked the look of the Comanche.
There was a 400 based in Townsville for years - never managed to get my hands on it.
I understand that the thought of the 400 was better than the reality!
Dr
Grandpa Aerotart
Yes Jaba the 35 series, and the name Bonanza, is 62 years old but the A36 and E33 designs are not...the E33 (mid 60s) was originally called a Debonair but they decided to rename it Bonanza at some point...late 60s I believe, about the time the 36 was designed in 1968.
While obviously similar, the original V tailed 35 has as much in common with an A36 as an early model C182Rg has with a C210R. Even the V35B is longer in the fuselage than the original 'short bodied' Bonanza 35s.
For starters, after stretching the A36 fuselage 18in, over and above the late model 35 stretch, they also mounted it further forward on the wing (which fixes the CofG issues) and the undercarriage, while similar, is off a Baron/T34 Mentor (designed to be Navy trainee pilot proof). In fact the B36TC has a Baron wing as well which gives it good high alt performance.
So is the G36/A36 Bonanza a 62 year old design?
I don't fecking think so
While obviously similar, the original V tailed 35 has as much in common with an A36 as an early model C182Rg has with a C210R. Even the V35B is longer in the fuselage than the original 'short bodied' Bonanza 35s.
For starters, after stretching the A36 fuselage 18in, over and above the late model 35 stretch, they also mounted it further forward on the wing (which fixes the CofG issues) and the undercarriage, while similar, is off a Baron/T34 Mentor (designed to be Navy trainee pilot proof). In fact the B36TC has a Baron wing as well which gives it good high alt performance.
So is the G36/A36 Bonanza a 62 year old design?
I don't fecking think so
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How to make something that is perfect even better:
http://www.pilotjournal.com/content/...tradewind.html
And here is a pic:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1233635/M/
http://www.pilotjournal.com/content/...tradewind.html
And here is a pic:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1233635/M/
Grandpa Aerotart
27/09...In your dreams.
And then 400nm later you will be landing for fuel in the 400 Comanche. And the 260C with full fuel, including tips, carries two skinny pilots and a brief case...all be it for close to 9hrs...put tip tanks on my Bo and it will carry 4 100kg bums and 100kg of bags for 7+hrs at 166kts...and a damn site more comfortably than any Piper.
The Comanche 180 has less-than-stellar speed performance but long legs for its class. Burning 8 to 10 GPH, it will cruise at about 140 knots. An American General Tiger with fixed gear goes just as fast and another contemporary retractable, the Mooney M20C or M20E will outrun the 180. The 180 can climb at 700 to 900 FPM after using more than 2200 feet to clear a 50-foot obstacle. The 250 and 260 are better performers. Speeds are up around 155 to 160 knots at cruise, burning about 12 GPH, Still, these speeds trail contemporary designs of similar vintage and power, such as the Bonanza S-series.
As you would expect from aerodynamics 101, the extra 10 GPH the Comanche 400 burns yields only about 10 to 15 extra knots. The 400 will, however, climb like nobody’s business: 1600 FPM. Not many singles can match it.
As you would expect from aerodynamics 101, the extra 10 GPH the Comanche 400 burns yields only about 10 to 15 extra knots. The 400 will, however, climb like nobody’s business: 1600 FPM. Not many singles can match it.
Had a look at the new G36 recently, looks the bees knees, state of the art cockpit and a sweet handling airframe thats been around long enough that its a known thing, just pity the engine is not state of the art. However Antlantic Aero have a fix for that with a STC for the implant of an IO-550N and a new cowl. Same hp but the tuned induction system and crossflow heads give it a significant fuel ecconomy advantage.
With regard to reminiscing about the FTDK, perhaps thar should be a mod for the G36 to replace its conventional tail with a V
I'd buy it! (Well, I'd need money first, but when i had the cash I'd buy it)
Arrr!
*Dons flame proof jacket as a precaution*
I'd buy it! (Well, I'd need money first, but when i had the cash I'd buy it)
Arrr!
*Dons flame proof jacket as a precaution*