Jetstar Cabin Crew - Wannabees & Recruitment

[octagonal]

Want2fly I didnt receive those conditions i got 2006 agreement with what looks like forms for staff travel benefits included. I start training on Monday 19th November.

[QF skywalker]

Is Team Jetstar a wholly owned subsidiary of JQ ? Or does it have a seperate owner i.e - Maurice Alexander.

This is the first I have heard of Team Jetstar, and quite frankly I am extremely disturbed.

[Want2Fly!]

QF skywalker, it said in my offer of employment; "You are being offered employment as a Cabin Crew member with Team Jetstar Pty Limited (Team Jetstar) a subsidiary company of Jetstar Airways Pty Limited (Jetstar Airways). Team Jetstar has been chosen to supply flight attendants to Jetstar Airways Pty Ltd. The airline industry is an exciting, dynamic and highly competitive industry. Team Jetstar will play an important role in ensuring the long term success of Jetstar Airways. If you accept the enclosed offer of employment you will be employed to operate on Jetstar aircraft and flights."

So yes it looks like Team Jetstar is a fully-owned subsidiary, not like in the case of MAM which is independent and not owned by Qantas Group. And the difference here is that it is full-time employment as opposed to casual with MAM.

Jetaway, with regards to sick leave and annual leave; it says I'd be entitled to 228 hours of annual leave per year (notionally 30 days), which I take that to be 6 weeks. A notional day is 7.6 hours, if that's of any use. There's also 76 hours of personal/carer's leave, and 2 days paid compassionate leave. So it doesn't sound like the leave entitlements are much different, if at all.

Then in regards to roster periods and hours; (not sure which figure is the important one so all list each of them) planned duty hours will be either- A) up to 152 hours plus reasonable additional hours, rostered over a 28 day period; or B) up to 164.67 hours plus reasonable additional hours, rostered over a calendar month; or C) some other arrangement of 1976 ordinary hours averaged over 12 months plus reasonable additional hours. Overtime paid for hours in excess of these stated duty hours it says will be paid at time and a half of the base hourly rate of pay... So how do these hours compare to the current crew on the EBA?

If this IS infact a new way of hiring crew, under "Team Jetstar" with less pay and conditions/benefits, then I am quite disappointed that JQ is now heading down this track and to be honest I can't help but feel a bit "jibbed" - especially knowing that I am going to be the first intake of crew under this new agreement (seeing as octagonal says he/she is under EBA for the 19 Nov. crew intake).

But at the end of the day, I've still got a job as a flight attendant staring me in the face and I'm not going to turn it down (a case of 'beggars can't be choosers') - it is still more pay than what I'm getting in my current job, and income has always been a secondary consideration for me (at this point in my life), with my primary consideration being that I'd be doing it for love of the job and to be flying for a living.

If this is the agreement I'm going to be working under, I wonder how much of it, if any of it will actually be negotiable at any point? Such as the travel benefits - will that be something openly negotiable with my supervisor/manager?

[QF skywalker]

Who is begging ?

a case of 'beggars can't be choosers'

Don't ever think you are a beggar in this industry, especially not now where recruitment drives run 365 days of the year - especially in the case of Jetstar. Times have changed from when people like myself & other long term pprune members 7-8 years ago would beg beg beg and wait 12months at a time just to wait for the day ansett,kendall,flight west,eastern or qantas would recruit.

Just because you desperately want a job in this industry, don't sell yourself short for the crap offer TEAM JETSTAR are trying to offer. They are the people begging. Do you want to be fatigued after your 3rd month flying ? Dream come true ....right ?

Speak to JQ recruitment and find out why you are not being hired by JQ directly and if you can go on a waitlist to be hired by them, not the subsidiary company.

An airline who makes recruitment P.A's on their flights are the ones begging, so find out more before you sign - I 'beg' you.

[PattyStacker]

Are you ALL talking about JQ Domestic or JQ International with this whole Team Jetstar...

152 hours over 28 days is for long haul...

Here at JQ domestic we are on monthly rosters...

Just trying to claryify

[MsTiger]

Its happenning...

FYI Here are the business details of team jetstar. It did not take long for them to copy (and undercut I may add) other operations pay and conditions.

The company changed its name on 8 November 2007. Used to be called Impulse communications. I would say part of the old impulse airlines? Just a guess. Maybe some JQ crew could comment?

ABN: 64 003 901 353
View current ABN details


Last modified: 09 Nov 2007 ABN status From To Active 16 Mar 2000(current) Entity names From To TEAM JETSTAR PTY LIMITED08 Nov 2007(current) IMPULSE COMMUNICATIONS PTY LIMITED01 Jun 200008 Nov 2007 IMPULSE COMMUNICATIONS PTY LTD16 Mar 200001 Jun 2000 Entity type Australian Private Company Main business locations From To NSW 202011 Feb 2002(current) Trading name(s) From To IMPULSE COMMUNICATIONS PTY LTD21 Apr 2000(current)

[Want2Fly!]

QF skywalker, I hear what you're saying and I realise that recruiting is happening pretty much non-stop at both JQ and DJ at the moment because of the need for crew as they expand their fleets over the coming year(s). But I don't see the harm in me accepting this position, at least for now, until I get a better offer from another airline or until September next year comes around when I can reapply for Virgin Blue (I went to a VRD on Sept 27th of this year and wasn't successful).

Or I may choose to stay with JQ depending on how it all goes and how I feel about my time there. I've heard from a few current cabin crew that it's not all doom-and-gloom as made out by some, and that they are happy in their jobs at JQ - not that they speak for everyone, but I think everyone expects different things when they go into a job like this.

I do fully intend to ring Jetstar in the next few days and enquire about this though, now that I've got a bit of a heads-up from you guys that I've been offered pay and conditions that differ to the current crew. I'll re-affirm to them that I do intend to accept the position still, but would like to know the details about staff travel benefits and how my leave entitlements and pay will differ to existing crew. There's obviously no amount of negotiating or bargaining with them that will change any of those terms or conditions though I'm assuming - so I'd be simply investigating everything a bit more.

As I said, accepting this will be a payrise over my current job and flying as cabin crew would be way more enjoyable than making coffees and scanning groceries. And this would at least let me gain airline experience to arm myself with when possibly being interviewed for other airline opportunities that may come up; Virgin, Emirates, etc.

I'll let you guys know if I find out any more about the details of all this when I put in the call to Jetstar.

Btw, PattyStacker, this Team Jetstar stuff we're talking about is referring to Domestic. My position is for Melbourne Dual Base. And if 152 hours over 28 days is what International is getting and they're on AWAs then clearly that's the way Domestic is headed too. Not sure how many hours current domestic crew are rostered under the EBA - can anyone let me know?

[fasparrow]

I'm on the same Training start date as Octagonal and my Offer of Employment is by Jetstar Airways, this is for Syd base domestic. I have the same paperwork as Octagonal, which includes the Staff Travel nomination form and info. Staff Travel is offered for Jetstar and the rest of the Qantas group. I understand that our hours are 140 over 1 month.
Maybe the info you guys have received is for Mel only???

[priapism]

Want2fly,

good job on posting this info and asking for advice in this forum. Many others will unfortunately sign on blindly , thinking they are being offered exactly what existing Jetstar crew are currently getting.

It is a harsh agreement with a lot more duty hours for a lot less money. You will need your 10 days a year sick leave - and will be probably harassed by some rabid manager who has a "sick leave management" KPI to fill. .

What about minimum rest provisions etc etc. ? - are those the same as the non "Team Jetstar" employees.

I would raise the matter with Jetstar and tell them you would prefer DIRECT employment with Jetstar . It would be interesting to hear the reply.

Do it if you like ,but actively pursue employment with the Virgin Group whilst you still have the energy to do so.

I attended an Ansett F/A reunion on the weekend and the crew that have gone to Jetstar were fed up and disenfranchised already. Those with Virgin, and there were many, were pretty happy with their lot regarding pay , culture and conditions.

Just my observations.

[blokehostie]

If only people weren't so stupid to accept sub-standard pay and conditions then companies would have no option but to offer something more 'reasonable'!!!!!!!!!

Want2Fly, with all due respect, you WILL be burned out very very quickly doing those hours. The current limit for JQ domestic is 140hours per calendar month and already crew are struggling. Operating over 10 hour shifts with 4 crew, no breaks, constant pressure to go, go, go(take shortcuts if you have to!!!) etc...
Add to that the fact that you are going to a dual base, depending on where you live you can add a substantial drive to and from work!!

Surely you aren't that desperate to do this job?? It might just not be all you think it is!

Can I just say though Want2Fly, that is all just my opinion of course, thankyou for at least sharing the info you have, that is appreciated.

[JQGIRL]

Want2fly

Hi Want2fly,

Maybe it's possible that they have sent you the 'international' contract in error. It's worth giving them a call just to double check.

[futureflier]

Pardon my ignorance but with $32500 per annum and flying allowance of $11.40/hour ... how much roughly would you be getting per month? Even with 152 hours a month its still looking pretty low isn't it?


I'm not liking this route JQ has chosen to go!!

[sharz87]

thanks =)

Hi everyone!
I just wanted to say quick thanks for all your informative and interesting discussions!
A few weeks ago I was trying 2 decide weather to take a job at jetstar which I had been offered or 2 stay at my current place of employment ( REX) and wait out to try and get in2 somewhere like virgin!
I was offered a job with jetstar ( which would have been under the "team jetstar" agreement) I had a strong feeling just from the interview that the "conditions" wouldn’t be great and I guess after my own detailed research but also after readings everyone’s discussions on here I have been able to confirm my suspicions.

Soo I have finally made the decision 2 stay with REX (which the lifestyle at the pay is pretty good at the moment! =) and try my luck in getting into virgin in the near future!

Soo thanks all for your much needed insight and advice. =)

Also good luck to all those jetstar wannabes and newbies :P
Just please make sure you go into the job informed.. I was soo lucky having previous airline experience I was able to walk into the interview and be not be so objective to some of the conditions that were discussed. Many people were sitting there nodding thinking that 140hours per calendar month, operating over 10 hour shifts ( the average day being around 9hrs something) with 4 crew ( a cut down from the previous 5 crew I think it was) was OK!!!!.. But in reality guys it would be damm hard work!!!!
I’m sure it can’t all be bad and some JQ crew must really enjoy their job.
I guess all I can say, especially to those who have never flown before is that even if it is your dream please proceed caution and inform yourself with what you are really getting yourself into!! Giving up your weekends, overtime and public holiday rates is one thing, but burning yourself out from being overworked is another!

[Skygal]

Hi guys,

I am contemplating taking a JQ domestic Sydney base and am just wondering if there are any overnites out of that base? I am currently flying for an airline where we get about 11 overnites a month and the pay is pretty good...but really wanting to relocate back to syd....With all the allowances and base pay what would the annual income be?? Sorry for all the questions but just very curious....

thanks everyone...

[Want2Fly!]

Priapism, I could tell them that I'd prefer direct employment with Jetstar and to be hired under the same pay and conditions as current crew but I highly doubt that will get me anywhere. There's every chance that there'll be no more hiring direct to Jetstar now that they have the Team Jetstar subsidiary set up with an AWA ready to go. If I were Jetstar, looking at this from a business perspective, there's no way I'd grant one new recruit the EBA pay/conditions just cause he asked, lol.

As for minimum rest periods and the duty hour limitations for a single day; a friend of mine who is JQ CC was asking me last night what it had in my contract about that and I actually couldn't find ANYTHING that referred to that at all! Surely there'd have to be something in writing about that. According to him the max duty in one day is 9 hours and then after that you're paid overtime, and minimum rest period is 12 hours for a duty under 9:45 hrs and 14 hours if over 9:45 hrs. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Blokehostie, I can see what you're saying about everyone accepting sub-standard pay and conditions and that if more people actually rejected this then the airline may not get away with it so easily, but there's not enough people willing to reject the job to put up enough of a protest to the airline. So I'm not going to be one of the few who denies myself the job.

I probably come across super-naieve at this point, but I haven't experienced what this kind of workload is going to be like or how I'm going to handle it - but if it becomes too much at some point and I simply can't work myself that hard any more well then I can resign and try another airline. At the moment any cabin crew job is better than none, only because I'm not coming from a high-paying job already - if I was then I'd have more to consider or weigh-up.

JQGIRL, it'd be nice to think they've simply sent me the wrong agreement in error, but it's clearly a contract for Domestic as the location states Melbourne/Avalon Dual Base.

Futureflier, in the section where it talked about the flying allowance as an additional payment it gave an example where out of approximately 120 duty hours an average of 89 block hours would be worked, and for every block hour the $11.40 per hour flying allowance applies. Going by that example, there's an additional $1014.60 per month. Adding that to the base salary gives me $44,675. That doesn't sound too bad to me, the downer to all this is the amount of hours I think, not so much the pay.

[indamiddle]

fatigue is an issue everyone has to address, some people handle it better than others. think how your rostered days off will be, will they be just for recovery or will u be able to enjoy some of this time off. over 140 hours sounds extraordinary.
unless things have changed in the last 15 years the ability to use staff travel was a huge incentive, either domestically or internationally, whether the qf group or other carriers. due to the huge fuel surcharges many staff now travel other airlines who don't hit u up for these surcharges as qf do (they buy z fare tickets on other airlines). try to find out if team jetstar has an agreement for interline (other carriers) travel. if staff travel is at mgt discretion they could be leaving themselves open to a dicrimination case if one crew is granted a particular staff travel but not to others.
last point (of many) is overnights are great fun, getting off the plane and having a drink with fellow workers. this is where u really get to know the people u r working with. jetstar has very very few of these trips, usually starting and finishing at your home base. things seem a lot different re this at virgin blue

[JQGIRL]

Want2Fly

Want2Fly,

Maybe it might pay to contact to FAAA, to see what they have to say about this. Just to confirm with them that this is the road Jetstar are now taking. . . . what to you have to loose??

[PattyStacker]

WOW.

Found out today from the powers that be that the NEW crew will be on AWA and the old crew on EBA.

OLD v NEW . Pretty much the beginning of B scale.
OLD crew and new crew hours will be different with OLD crew on Monthly rosters and new crew on 28 day rostered.

Going to be very interesting..

To the crew out there coming over. The crew are JQ are great and we do work our little butts off BUT the upper management are another thing. I choose not to speak to them for fear of a police record.

JQ GIRL.. the FAAA know all about it.

[resboy]

planned duty hours will be either- A) up to 152 hours plus reasonable additional hours, rostered over a 28 day period; or B) up to 164.67 hours plus reasonable additional hours, rostered over a calendar month; or C) some other arrangement of 1976 ordinary hours averaged over 12 months plus reasonable additional hours

Option B will probably prevail ... it would be absolute mayhem having some crew on monthy rosters and others on 28 day rosters

my question is ... who gets call first on a live day ... "contract crew" don't fit into the call out procedures as outlined in the EBA ... whats to stop "Team Jetstar" crew been called ahead of EBA crews for reserve?

[blokehostie]

Want2Fly, unfortunately I agree with you, if you don't take it up someone else will!!! That is the problem all the time, even with crewing calling crew on days off. They ask you to do 4 sectors, you say no.......some ******** says yes!!!

Good luck though, you obviously really want to fly.


Resboy, you raise a good point. One guess what they'll do.

Hopefully as they need more and more crew for the imminent arrival of more aircraft crew will realise working for jokestar is just that, a joke and will leave. Maybe VB will see the benefit of hiring more JQ crew...............