ASL NZ Poor Standard of testing officer?
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ASL NZ Poor Standard of testing officer?
I am referring to the northern area testing officer, who is making quite a name for himself.
Has anyone else experienced problems with this person?
Where ASL finds them I am not quite sure! Perhaps CTC was glad to see him go. Smarten up your ideas DW.
Has anyone else experienced problems with this person?
Where ASL finds them I am not quite sure! Perhaps CTC was glad to see him go. Smarten up your ideas DW.
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Poor Standard???
I'm curious. What exactly is poor about the standard of this particular testing officer in your opinion? Does he not know his stuff? Does he not fail enough people? Does he fail too many people?
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yeah, like XRNZAF, I'd be keen to hear more detail. In my dealings with ASL their testing officers have been of a consistently high standard -Graeme Leach and Pete Dixon spring to mind straight away. Have flown with both and found them thorough and thoroughly professional.
Many years ago when CAA had their own testing officers, the one in WN had a pretty poor rep -failed guys on their 1st flight-test just 'on principle' it seemed, but I certainly have never heard of anything like that since.
Many years ago when CAA had their own testing officers, the one in WN had a pretty poor rep -failed guys on their 1st flight-test just 'on principle' it seemed, but I certainly have never heard of anything like that since.
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Yes I too have heard some disturbing feedback about the aforementioned testing officer.
Aparrently he failed his C Cat flight test some three times......and upon failing a recent candidate was kind enough to inform the hapless soul he indeed had the power to remove his current qualification........sounds like a little man enjoying (abusing)the authority bestowed him.
It is a pity as the ASL assessors in the past were guys with "industry experience" who applied their judgement consistently!
Aparrently he failed his C Cat flight test some three times......and upon failing a recent candidate was kind enough to inform the hapless soul he indeed had the power to remove his current qualification........sounds like a little man enjoying (abusing)the authority bestowed him.
It is a pity as the ASL assessors in the past were guys with "industry experience" who applied their judgement consistently!
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i think p.dixon and g leach are fair with how you fly and reach the standards, the only reason i think Nz has is less flight examiners, the only reason i think students fail is because they are not 100 percent ready or their instructor didnt train them well.
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I have flowen a number of times with DW as cfi and have experienced his wrath first hand. Although it was a bit off putting to be told bluntly that I had failed a checkflight and need to get my S#$t togeather
you just have to get over it take it on the chin and make sure you get it right next time.
He expects the candidate to know his stuff and to be prepaird, after all they are about to be certified as a professional pilot. Would you expect any examiner to pass people that have been pumped out in a sausage factory style flying school that are not up to standard just because they need to keep up with the program??
My hat goes off to DW for keeping up the standard and not bowing to commercial forces
you just have to get over it take it on the chin and make sure you get it right next time. He expects the candidate to know his stuff and to be prepaird, after all they are about to be certified as a professional pilot. Would you expect any examiner to pass people that have been pumped out in a sausage factory style flying school that are not up to standard just because they need to keep up with the program??
My hat goes off to DW for keeping up the standard and not bowing to commercial forces
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There is a difference between keeping a high standard, and creating unnecessary barriers. Some of the things I've heard indicate a rather large lack of knowledge on the part of this testing officer with respect to P of F.
I know of one particular case where I could vouch for the candidate being of a very high standard, and failing based on dissagreement with some very flawed arguments put forward by the testing officer, which were quite rightly rejected.
I don't know the guy personally, and I'm not commenting on anything other than his actions. Of course, I understand there are two sides to every story, but it's also true that where there's smoke there's fire.
I know of one particular case where I could vouch for the candidate being of a very high standard, and failing based on dissagreement with some very flawed arguments put forward by the testing officer, which were quite rightly rejected.
I don't know the guy personally, and I'm not commenting on anything other than his actions. Of course, I understand there are two sides to every story, but it's also true that where there's smoke there's fire.
Gee, is Pete Dixon still around? He did my CPL flight test about 13 years ago. I found him to be really good. Relaxing but thorough at the same time. He did take a lot of smoke breaks!
Not "no-pass" Parker by any chance?
Originally Posted by kiwiblue
the one in WN had a pretty poor rep -failed guys on their 1st flight-test just 'on principle' it seemed, but I certainly have never heard of anything like that since.
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I had this ASL testing officer for my CPL. I had no problems with him whatsoever, infact the flight itself was rather fun.
I have heard of a few people being upset with him when they failed. Some of these people have also gone on to fail with a different testing officer.
Maybe this whole issue reflects on the standard of flight training, or some people could just be attempting to pass a flight test there not quite ready for.
I have heard of a few people being upset with him when they failed. Some of these people have also gone on to fail with a different testing officer.
Maybe this whole issue reflects on the standard of flight training, or some people could just be attempting to pass a flight test there not quite ready for.
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Flat spin is on the money. Once you get to know DW he is a real pleasure to fly with espcially if you get to talk about fishing
and is from my own experience will give credit if credit is due just dont expect a walk in the park and if you meet the standard you will pass if not you wont.
and is from my own experience will give credit if credit is due just dont expect a walk in the park and if you meet the standard you will pass if not you wont.
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Stolen from another thread, but about the same Testing officer
I also hear, he is a little unsure on IFR stuff also....
haha that CTC guy that went to ASL - he managed to make friends by telling a candidate on a B cat flight test - that you maintain height in a max rate turn by pulling back. Um hello? arn't we already at max CL anyway?!!!
You maintain height in a max rate by varying aob.
It was argued until the candidate was blue in the face, and he failed.
You maintain height in a max rate by varying aob.
It was argued until the candidate was blue in the face, and he failed.
A few years ago a DCA Examiner of Airman in Perth WA with a doubtful reputation was scheduled to conduct a PPL flight test. The pilot did his pre-flight checks and started the engine. The Examiner then failed him immediately for not turning on the anti-collision light before engine start. This drill was not required in prop aircraft - only jet aircraft, but the Examiner didn't care. Both pilots climbed down from the aircraft and the pilot calmly walked over to the Examiner and decked him with a clean punch to the jaw.
Now that's what I call justice...
Now that's what I call justice...
"Many years ago when CAA had their own testing officers, the one in WN had a pretty poor rep -failed guys on their 1st flight-test just 'on principle' it seemed, but I certainly have never heard of anything like that since"
That would almost certainly be one HB. People used to wear teeshirts to aeroclub rallies that read "I've been failed by H..... B......".
However, I doubt that HB ever "failed" anyone who did not themselves fail to demonstrate the required standard, and I know of many who passed first up with him.
As with all ATOs - demonstrate what is on the flight test form to the required standard and you will pass!
(We won't dwell on IR renewals where they keep failing navaids, instruments and engines until you screw something up!)
HB's main "fault" was that he did nothing to put you at ease.
I did my C-Cat Instructor's Rating test with HB. We started at 09:00 with briefings, then a flight test took us through to a late lunch. We finished off with a couple of hours questions on Principles of Flight.
At about 16:45 HB announced "That was successful", did the paperwork and flew off back to Wellington.
I also did my first renewal with HB. Trust me - that guy never asked you to do anything he couldn't do himself, perfectly!
At the time (early 80's) there was well known case of a young CPL candidate who failed their flight test multiple times with HB. Story goes he was of the opinion that they should never hold a CPL because their decision making was flawed. Said candidate went to another part of NZ and passed a CPL test with a different Testing Officer.
Before the ink was dry on the new CPL's licence they, and a plane load of pax were lost in a "VFR flight into IMC" weather related accident.
Dr
That would almost certainly be one HB. People used to wear teeshirts to aeroclub rallies that read "I've been failed by H..... B......".
However, I doubt that HB ever "failed" anyone who did not themselves fail to demonstrate the required standard, and I know of many who passed first up with him.
As with all ATOs - demonstrate what is on the flight test form to the required standard and you will pass!
(We won't dwell on IR renewals where they keep failing navaids, instruments and engines until you screw something up!)
HB's main "fault" was that he did nothing to put you at ease.
I did my C-Cat Instructor's Rating test with HB. We started at 09:00 with briefings, then a flight test took us through to a late lunch. We finished off with a couple of hours questions on Principles of Flight.
At about 16:45 HB announced "That was successful", did the paperwork and flew off back to Wellington.
I also did my first renewal with HB. Trust me - that guy never asked you to do anything he couldn't do himself, perfectly!
At the time (early 80's) there was well known case of a young CPL candidate who failed their flight test multiple times with HB. Story goes he was of the opinion that they should never hold a CPL because their decision making was flawed. Said candidate went to another part of NZ and passed a CPL test with a different Testing Officer.
Before the ink was dry on the new CPL's licence they, and a plane load of pax were lost in a "VFR flight into IMC" weather related accident.
Dr
Last edited by ForkTailedDrKiller; 13th Aug 2007 at 03:06.
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Well, they've taken my money, will be interesting to see who ends up doing my flight test......wish I was still in the South Island! Prior Preparation Prevents Piss-Poor Performance!
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Personally, I would have thought that when people are making critical statements about a persons professional standards, and these statements are only opinions formed from whatever background or event, and that person is easily identifiable, and comments being made from behind a nom de plume, then that should be when moderators step in.
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alot of the opinions formed are from actual events, and I guess these opinions grow stronger when one hears of others who have had such experiences too!
eg my post in another thread, which someone quoted above, about the technique for doing a max rate turn, where clearly the examiner had it wrong. No one can argue otherwise in that case!
eg my post in another thread, which someone quoted above, about the technique for doing a max rate turn, where clearly the examiner had it wrong. No one can argue otherwise in that case!
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prospector. I am satisfied that - at this stage at least -all posts in this thread comply with PPRuNe rules.
Critical - yes. But the posts are balanced and not defamatory or libelous.
Fine line: Yes. Subjective: Yes.
Tail Wheel
"..making critical statements about a persons professional standards."
Fine line: Yes. Subjective: Yes.
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solowflyer: in regard to the first part of your answer "Once you get to know DW he is a real pleasure to fly with espcially if you get to talk about fishing...", a flight test requirement should not be "get to know your testing officer and his/her hobbies". Candidates should be assessed on their ability and proficency. Some converstion to establish rapport or back ground is acceptable- particularly for instructor ratings i.e. finding out what the student knows or thinks etc.