Interesting story for anyone who flies IFR in a single!
Thread Starter
Wheeler - The FTDK could do with a bit of weight in the nose!
Jaba - You're a cheeky beggar! Unfortunately there was no Good Samaritan (?) to come collect me in his TBM700.
Got m' new pump installed - and its sucking 5.4 something or others. George is back at work and flew me to Coffs today. Its a tough life but I guess someone has got to do it.
Its good to see that Oz is right on top of airport security. The security gate outside the Coffs Aero Club is designed to keep would-be terrorists OUT!
At least short ones!
Its just a tall pool gate. Provided you can reach the latch, you are in - but then I guess any terrorist who breaches our brilliant security that way will likely perish hiking from the GA area at Coffs to the main apron.
Thank God for the folding lecky bike!
Dr
Jaba - You're a cheeky beggar! Unfortunately there was no Good Samaritan (?) to come collect me in his TBM700.
Got m' new pump installed - and its sucking 5.4 something or others. George is back at work and flew me to Coffs today. Its a tough life but I guess someone has got to do it.
Its good to see that Oz is right on top of airport security. The security gate outside the Coffs Aero Club is designed to keep would-be terrorists OUT!
At least short ones!
Its just a tall pool gate. Provided you can reach the latch, you are in - but then I guess any terrorist who breaches our brilliant security that way will likely perish hiking from the GA area at Coffs to the main apron.
Thank God for the folding lecky bike!
Dr
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Just checking
FTDK
Does your bonanza instrument air system work on vacuum or is it a pressure system (as most beech systems are).Have you had it modified/changed at some stage. regards aggy
Does your bonanza instrument air system work on vacuum or is it a pressure system (as most beech systems are).Have you had it modified/changed at some stage. regards aggy
Thread Starter
YoungAggy
To tell you the truth I have no idea (apparently!), but I will go get the POH and see what it says. The FTDK is NOT modified.
I would have said the V35B has a vacuum system cause people call the thing bolted to the engine a "vac pump". There is a dial labelled "suction" on the panel, and a light that I think is labelled "low suction".
Will go check and get back to you!
Dr
To tell you the truth I have no idea (apparently!), but I will go get the POH and see what it says. The FTDK is NOT modified.
I would have said the V35B has a vacuum system cause people call the thing bolted to the engine a "vac pump". There is a dial labelled "suction" on the panel, and a light that I think is labelled "low suction".
Will go check and get back to you!
Dr
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Dry pumps used to last all winter and then die every summer when things got warm and dusty. Found that the air inlet pipe just above the footwell was the perfect size to stick a standard inline fuel filter in to. Same pump has now been through 4 years and a thousand hours or so. Just a SWAG but maybe being particular about keeping the air super clean as its flowing in to the dry pumps is the way to go.
No, I have no idea if there is an STC or any such paperwork on this. Check it out yourself before you do such..... Perhaps there is already an inlet filter on yours that just needs to be checked frequently....
No, I have no idea if there is an STC or any such paperwork on this. Check it out yourself before you do such..... Perhaps there is already an inlet filter on yours that just needs to be checked frequently....
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Oil mist?
I believe the pnuematic system was driven by suction so that the "wet" pumps did not blow oil mist into the instruments. When the dry pumps came along, some aircraft came with a pressure system, but I do not think that lasted very long.
Instrument LAME's used to say cigarette smoke was harmful to gyros.
It would probably not be a good idea to fit a wet pump on an aircraft with a pressure system to drive the gyros.
Instrument LAME's used to say cigarette smoke was harmful to gyros.
It would probably not be a good idea to fit a wet pump on an aircraft with a pressure system to drive the gyros.
Thread Starter
How well do you know your aeroplane?
My excuse is that I was a "Cessna man" before getting the V-tail!
The POH for my Bonanza (1977 V35B) says:
"INSTRUMENT PRESSURE SYSTEM
Instrument pressure is supplied by an engine driven pressure pump"
The filter is attached to the "In" side of the pump. The pipe from the "Out" side of the pump goes through the firewall, presumably to the instruments.
The guage that I had always considered to be a suction guage, is labelled "Instrument Air" and the warning light is labelled "Low pressure warning light".
This would tend to suggest that the air is flowing from the pump to the instruments as in "blow" rather than from the instruments to the pump as in "suck"!
It is filtered twice before it gets to the instruments so it should be pretty clean.
Dr
The Mad Dr throws YoungAggy a lollipop!
The POH for my Bonanza (1977 V35B) says:
"INSTRUMENT PRESSURE SYSTEM
Instrument pressure is supplied by an engine driven pressure pump"
The filter is attached to the "In" side of the pump. The pipe from the "Out" side of the pump goes through the firewall, presumably to the instruments.
The guage that I had always considered to be a suction guage, is labelled "Instrument Air" and the warning light is labelled "Low pressure warning light".
This would tend to suggest that the air is flowing from the pump to the instruments as in "blow" rather than from the instruments to the pump as in "suck"!
It is filtered twice before it gets to the instruments so it should be pretty clean.
Dr
The Mad Dr throws YoungAggy a lollipop!
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Ah Dr so you work on more air instead of a lack of it - didn't know you could do that - come back to us Cessna boys, get weight in your nose, the right number of parts in your tail - and work under lower pressures!
No-one has told me how often I should legally change a dry vac pump in an IFR single. - Bugger it, I'll rely on a sby vac and leave it till it dies, which apparently could be anything between 10 and 10000 hrs. Rediculous things those dry pumps. The advice on brushing up on limited panel seems sensible!
No-one has told me how often I should legally change a dry vac pump in an IFR single. - Bugger it, I'll rely on a sby vac and leave it till it dies, which apparently could be anything between 10 and 10000 hrs. Rediculous things those dry pumps. The advice on brushing up on limited panel seems sensible!
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FYI
FYI - Main reason i posted is I was asked about this during a recent instrument renewal in Bo by ato.Fortunately i have done time on both bonanzas/ barons,in the air and in the maintainence hangar and could answer the question straight away,set the mood for a good renewal flight.Although i do believe some early v tails had wet pump vacuum system as stated by someone else.
FTDK I too was a cessna man but am now converted beech man for life.
Flew a 210 recently IFR and did not like it at all,couldnt wait to get back in the Bo.
By the way (no vac/press pump to worry about in the old agwagon/agtrucks.Had hydraulic pump mounted on accessory case pad to run spray system)
Keep up the good work - I enjoy reading your posts.
regards Aggy
FTDK I too was a cessna man but am now converted beech man for life.
Flew a 210 recently IFR and did not like it at all,couldnt wait to get back in the Bo.
By the way (no vac/press pump to worry about in the old agwagon/agtrucks.Had hydraulic pump mounted on accessory case pad to run spray system)
Keep up the good work - I enjoy reading your posts.
regards Aggy
Bugsmasherdriverandjediknite
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for not a lot of $$$ you can by a solid state electric AH, and fit it up in a spare hole in the dash. you can have the best of both worlds then.
Thread Starter
"come back to us Cessna boys, get weight in your nose, the right number of parts in your tail - and work under lower pressures!"
Wheeler
It will take a bit to drag me back! Now that I have my head around blow-not-suck, after 500 hrs in the Bonza camp, I am starting to feel at home!
Its a while since I have flown a Cessna that will climb to A100 in 12 min, and true 160 kts on 48 l/hr.
Dr
Wheeler
It will take a bit to drag me back! Now that I have my head around blow-not-suck, after 500 hrs in the Bonza camp, I am starting to feel at home!
Its a while since I have flown a Cessna that will climb to A100 in 12 min, and true 160 kts on 48 l/hr.
Dr
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WOW, does it really? Thats pretty quick, is that at full load?
New G36 says 14 min, and even the light weight go fast Jabawocky would be about that climb!
Have to say though....the Bo is the Go in serious singles!
J
New G36 says 14 min, and even the light weight go fast Jabawocky would be about that climb!
Have to say though....the Bo is the Go in serious singles!
J
Its a while since I have flown a Cessna that will climb to A100 in 12 min, and true 160 kts on 48 l/hr.
Thread Starter
Chadzat
I have more than a few hours in the C210, including one of the last new N models sold in Oz.
I stand by my statement!
I understand that the Scimitar prop knocked a couple of kts off the FTDK in cruise but it climbs like its on rails.
I suspect that with an all cylinder engine monitor and LOP I could safely get it back to <45 l/hr at the same power setting (2300/22 at A100).
Dr
I have more than a few hours in the C210, including one of the last new N models sold in Oz.
I stand by my statement!
I understand that the Scimitar prop knocked a couple of kts off the FTDK in cruise but it climbs like its on rails.
I suspect that with an all cylinder engine monitor and LOP I could safely get it back to <45 l/hr at the same power setting (2300/22 at A100).
Dr
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'ere we go again.... The 210 beats the Bo... the Bo is more fun etc etc
Hey Doc, I thought the 35B would do a bit better than that - could come close in the 182RG, on a lot less neddies and a Lycoming of all things! (BTW did you mean 160kts TAS during the 12 min climb? If so, OK you win. If not, come on, you're wasting your time, come back to aircraft that suck!)
Hey, whilst we are on it, isn't the S35 the best and fastest FTDK ever made?
Getting back to the single vac pump in IMC issue, when it packs up in the poo I'd rather be in the Cessna - keeping an FTDK straight and level without George in tip top condition is challenging to a mere Cessna driver like me at the best of times!
Hey Doc, I thought the 35B would do a bit better than that - could come close in the 182RG, on a lot less neddies and a Lycoming of all things! (BTW did you mean 160kts TAS during the 12 min climb? If so, OK you win. If not, come on, you're wasting your time, come back to aircraft that suck!)
Hey, whilst we are on it, isn't the S35 the best and fastest FTDK ever made?
Getting back to the single vac pump in IMC issue, when it packs up in the poo I'd rather be in the Cessna - keeping an FTDK straight and level without George in tip top condition is challenging to a mere Cessna driver like me at the best of times!
Thread Starter
Wheeler - you bin smokin that weed again?
"I thought the 35B would do a bit better than that - could come close in the 182RG"
Been a while since I have flown a 182RG, but my recollection is I flightplanned 150kts. My FP program says 145 kt TAS at 50 l/hr.
"BTW did you mean 160kts TAS during the 12 min climb"
Not without a PT6 up front! I climb at 110 kts.
"isn't the S35 the best and fastest FTDK ever made?"
Certainly one of the fastest! The best (?) - dunno. The V35B carries more but has greater CofG issues.
"Getting back to the single vac pump in IMC issue, when it packs up in the poo I'd rather be in the Cessna - keeping an FTDK straight and level without George in tip top condition is challenging to a mere Cessna driver like me at the best of times!"
Yes, the aeroplane has neutral lateral stability. It will easily peel off into a spiral dive if your scan is not good. While I seem to be able to fly it around quite happily on partial panel during renewals, I would not launch into serious IFR without a functional AP.
Dr
"I thought the 35B would do a bit better than that - could come close in the 182RG"
Been a while since I have flown a 182RG, but my recollection is I flightplanned 150kts. My FP program says 145 kt TAS at 50 l/hr.
"BTW did you mean 160kts TAS during the 12 min climb"
Not without a PT6 up front! I climb at 110 kts.
"isn't the S35 the best and fastest FTDK ever made?"
Certainly one of the fastest! The best (?) - dunno. The V35B carries more but has greater CofG issues.
"Getting back to the single vac pump in IMC issue, when it packs up in the poo I'd rather be in the Cessna - keeping an FTDK straight and level without George in tip top condition is challenging to a mere Cessna driver like me at the best of times!"
Yes, the aeroplane has neutral lateral stability. It will easily peel off into a spiral dive if your scan is not good. While I seem to be able to fly it around quite happily on partial panel during renewals, I would not launch into serious IFR without a functional AP.
Dr
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OK Doc, its a fair cop, didn't think the weed would be that obvious to someone with a confused vac pump that blows..
As I said, not THAT far behind in a 182RG, don't know where your numbers come from but try fully loaded 14 mins to A100, 154 kts 47 litres per hour - and oh yes, on 50HP less. I can easily be at 10,000 by Richmond taking off from Camden (26nm) and still be climbing at 500fpm. A decent TR182 would beat that by a bit. Imagine looking up from the Killer and seeing an old high wing biscuit tin, with all 3(!) feathers correctly placed in the tail above you, struts and all - and a decent 210 might be in front of that...
(Actually I'd love a V35B or a F33A but don't tell the buscuit tin club I have those terrible secret desires - its only the weed.)
As I said, not THAT far behind in a 182RG, don't know where your numbers come from but try fully loaded 14 mins to A100, 154 kts 47 litres per hour - and oh yes, on 50HP less. I can easily be at 10,000 by Richmond taking off from Camden (26nm) and still be climbing at 500fpm. A decent TR182 would beat that by a bit. Imagine looking up from the Killer and seeing an old high wing biscuit tin, with all 3(!) feathers correctly placed in the tail above you, struts and all - and a decent 210 might be in front of that...
(Actually I'd love a V35B or a F33A but don't tell the buscuit tin club I have those terrible secret desires - its only the weed.)
Thread Starter
Don't know about the TR182. Only flown one. Bloody thing used 65 l/hr at my usual 9 - 10 k and only managed 155.
Maybe "decent" is the key word. It was that aeroplane that got me onto the FTDK. I figured I had to get a better aeroplane to fly before my luck ran out.
On my last trip in the TR182 - the oil leaked out of the compass; the A/H rolled upside down (not vac pump failure) and then I had a total electrical failure.
Dr
Maybe "decent" is the key word. It was that aeroplane that got me onto the FTDK. I figured I had to get a better aeroplane to fly before my luck ran out.
On my last trip in the TR182 - the oil leaked out of the compass; the A/H rolled upside down (not vac pump failure) and then I had a total electrical failure.
Dr
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On my last trip in the TR182 - the oil leaked out of the compass; the A/H rolled upside down (not vac pump failure) and then I had a total electrical failure.
J