Fatal crash pilot 'had taken pot'
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did you guys see the guy on the day he was flying I dont think so!!!! so how can you comment on this beinging a factor in this crash we all know this stuff hangs in the system for months and is alot better the next day than a heavy night on the grog which takes days to recover from.
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also do you think the owner of this million dollar aircraft would let this pilot fly this aircraft if he had any concerns about his wellbeing when they had months to complete this training
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I'm not posting here with the intention of offending anyone or denegrating the incident pilot but this exert from the ATSB report makes sobering reading. I would suggest there is a lesson for all professional pilots here. If you disagree with the ATSB's findings in this case fine, but the message is still valid.
My condolences to those who lost an experienced and valued friend.
"In the context of this accident, specialist medical opinion was obtained regarding the significance of the toxicology results. That advice included that the presence of THC was consistent with the ingestion of cannabis by the pilot in the 24-hour period prior to the accident. On the basis of that evidence, the specialist commented that:
…the adverse effects on pilot performance of recent cannabis use must be considered a significant factor in the fatal accident involving VH-NIT.
In March 2004, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) released a research report titled ‘Cannabis and its Effects on Pilot Performance and Flight Safety: A Review’ (available at www.atsb.gov.au). That report reviewed the scientific research on the use of cannabis and examined the manner in which the use of cannabis could affect the ability of a pilot to operate an aircraft.
The pharmacological effects of cannabis use include effects on cognitive and psychomotor function that can significantly impair the ability to perform complex tasks that require attention and mental coordination. Complex tasks requiring rapid responses and discriminations, such as the management of in-flight emergencies, are especially sensitive to cannabis impairment. "
My condolences to those who lost an experienced and valued friend.
"In the context of this accident, specialist medical opinion was obtained regarding the significance of the toxicology results. That advice included that the presence of THC was consistent with the ingestion of cannabis by the pilot in the 24-hour period prior to the accident. On the basis of that evidence, the specialist commented that:
…the adverse effects on pilot performance of recent cannabis use must be considered a significant factor in the fatal accident involving VH-NIT.
In March 2004, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) released a research report titled ‘Cannabis and its Effects on Pilot Performance and Flight Safety: A Review’ (available at www.atsb.gov.au). That report reviewed the scientific research on the use of cannabis and examined the manner in which the use of cannabis could affect the ability of a pilot to operate an aircraft.
The pharmacological effects of cannabis use include effects on cognitive and psychomotor function that can significantly impair the ability to perform complex tasks that require attention and mental coordination. Complex tasks requiring rapid responses and discriminations, such as the management of in-flight emergencies, are especially sensitive to cannabis impairment. "
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Thoughts to those that have obviously lost a friend/colleague.
Regardless of the reason, report release is a difficult time.
The ATSB findings may yet help someone.
If they are incorrect, perhaps someone should speak up.
Again, refer top line.
Regardless of the reason, report release is a difficult time.
The ATSB findings may yet help someone.
If they are incorrect, perhaps someone should speak up.
Again, refer top line.
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wingover82...your defensive attitude and comments regarding the use of pot and flying indicate (to me).....that you are in agreement or favour the use of recreational pot smoking and flying.....and if that s the case,(correct me if I,m wrong)because you havent said otherwise.....you are doing yourself,me and all other pilots a dis-service....if I,m wrong, then take this as an apology
This is not a game we are playing and it is prudent for those on this forum to make statements and stand up and be counted,when it comes to the use of Drugs and alcohol in the course of our professional duties...
I,m not pointing fingers,I get on the piss like most...no drugs,but on the piss and have had a couple of beauties......but in saying that,have never had to remove myself from a flight from the effects and have always adheared to the Reg rules and company rules(which are more conservative).......
The day is fast approaching(and its already here for some)that before you step onto the "property'...you will have to blow the bag!!!!!
This subject has always drawn debate......bottom line,I dont wanted some drugged-up,drunk a@#ehole flying me or my family around or have them flying around to where they cause havoc or death.....you do not have those rights...PB
This is not a game we are playing and it is prudent for those on this forum to make statements and stand up and be counted,when it comes to the use of Drugs and alcohol in the course of our professional duties...
I,m not pointing fingers,I get on the piss like most...no drugs,but on the piss and have had a couple of beauties......but in saying that,have never had to remove myself from a flight from the effects and have always adheared to the Reg rules and company rules(which are more conservative).......
The day is fast approaching(and its already here for some)that before you step onto the "property'...you will have to blow the bag!!!!!
This subject has always drawn debate......bottom line,I dont wanted some drugged-up,drunk a@#ehole flying me or my family around or have them flying around to where they cause havoc or death.....you do not have those rights...PB
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I feel for the ones who are protesting the "bagging" here but seriously, put yourself on a B737/A320 or whatever else as a pax......then as the CSM announces over the PA during push back, sorry for the slow start, the cabin crew along with the Captain and F/O had a smashing party last night and we were stoned on grass till the wee hours.........
How many of you would be straight out of your seats and opening the rear doors, slides activated and vacate a taxiing aircraft? I know I would be, at least then the crew may not take off!.....well you would hope
So all those being defensive, I suggest you delete your posts!
There is no room for drugs and alcohol and their after effects in aviation, we all know this so what's the big deal.
If this guy was so experience or not experienced.....I do not believe it matters. End of Argument.
J
How many of you would be straight out of your seats and opening the rear doors, slides activated and vacate a taxiing aircraft? I know I would be, at least then the crew may not take off!.....well you would hope
So all those being defensive, I suggest you delete your posts!
There is no room for drugs and alcohol and their after effects in aviation, we all know this so what's the big deal.
If this guy was so experience or not experienced.....I do not believe it matters. End of Argument.
J
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Nope, you're right wingover, I'm not a pot smoker. I'm not that stupid. I've spent most of my working life dealing with the aftermath of dickheads who do smoke it. And I wouldn't disagree with you regarding the booze problem either.
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New Drug & Alcohol Regs - your choice if you speakup NOW
Read this and ACT before 27th of August or forever be silent
DO YOU WANT 0.02% (UK limit) or 0.04% (FAA USA limit)
You have until 27th August to make a submission regarding the new Drug and Alcohol Regulations that will be passed into law and acted on immediately. The proposed start date is early 2008.
I urge all of the aviation industry participants to study the proposed regs(they will not be changed unless you comment).
You will find them as a PDF file top right corner at:
http://www.casa.gov.au/newrules/part...NPRM0703SS.asp
Drugs are zero tolerance and so they should be and once busted you will not be permitted to return to work until tested zero.....I understand some of this stuff take three months to get a zero reading and you may also face loss of licence and/or the courts.
However, RESPONSIBLE ALCOHOL consumption is generally an accepted way of life throughout most of the world but certainly in Australia.
BE WARNED !!!! the limit proposed is 0.02% BAC following the UK limit while they could adopt the US limit of 0.04% BAC as acceptable.
THEY WILL NOT CHANGE UNLESS THE INDUSTRY COMMENTS BEFORE 27TH AUGUST 2007!
In the proposal is to allow State Police to do random testing, airside is described as any area regardless of whether it is fenced, demerit point system and eventual revocation of your CASA Medical etc etc etc etc.
There are serious implications for all industry personnel. They are going to do a lot of random testing and not just targeting airline employees...the whole industry.
Get off your fat bums and hit the keyboard, make a responsible comment and DEMAND SAFEGUARDS be inserted into the regs to prevent overzealous, undertrained dickheads destroying your career.
YOU CANNOT REFUSE a test and you may not even be on duty and be asked to do a test......how will they determine who is on duty and who is not....etc etc etc...walking from one hangar to the next at a country aerodrome (like you have done for 30 years) after having a couple on Friday afternoon....how do you convince the man/lady that jumps out of the bushes that you are not on duty....make no mistake this will occur and you need safeguard legislation...YOU CANNOT REFUSE A TEST!
DO NOT come screaming next year that this long overdue system is flawed - its up to the industry to comment now!
DO YOU WANT 0.02% (UK limit) or 0.04% (FAA USA limit)
You have until 27th August to make a submission regarding the new Drug and Alcohol Regulations that will be passed into law and acted on immediately. The proposed start date is early 2008.
I urge all of the aviation industry participants to study the proposed regs(they will not be changed unless you comment).
You will find them as a PDF file top right corner at:
http://www.casa.gov.au/newrules/part...NPRM0703SS.asp
Drugs are zero tolerance and so they should be and once busted you will not be permitted to return to work until tested zero.....I understand some of this stuff take three months to get a zero reading and you may also face loss of licence and/or the courts.
However, RESPONSIBLE ALCOHOL consumption is generally an accepted way of life throughout most of the world but certainly in Australia.
BE WARNED !!!! the limit proposed is 0.02% BAC following the UK limit while they could adopt the US limit of 0.04% BAC as acceptable.
THEY WILL NOT CHANGE UNLESS THE INDUSTRY COMMENTS BEFORE 27TH AUGUST 2007!
In the proposal is to allow State Police to do random testing, airside is described as any area regardless of whether it is fenced, demerit point system and eventual revocation of your CASA Medical etc etc etc etc.
There are serious implications for all industry personnel. They are going to do a lot of random testing and not just targeting airline employees...the whole industry.
Get off your fat bums and hit the keyboard, make a responsible comment and DEMAND SAFEGUARDS be inserted into the regs to prevent overzealous, undertrained dickheads destroying your career.
YOU CANNOT REFUSE a test and you may not even be on duty and be asked to do a test......how will they determine who is on duty and who is not....etc etc etc...walking from one hangar to the next at a country aerodrome (like you have done for 30 years) after having a couple on Friday afternoon....how do you convince the man/lady that jumps out of the bushes that you are not on duty....make no mistake this will occur and you need safeguard legislation...YOU CANNOT REFUSE A TEST!
DO NOT come screaming next year that this long overdue system is flawed - its up to the industry to comment now!
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Originally Posted by emu787
you may not even be on duty and be asked to do a test......how will they determine who is on duty and who is not....etc etc etc...walking from one hangar to the next at a country aerodrome (like you have done for 30 years) after having a couple on Friday afternoon....how do you convince the man/lady that jumps out of the bushes that you are not on duty....make no mistake this will occur and you need safeguard legislation...YOU CANNOT REFUSE A TEST!
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Typical half baked answer!
You obviously missed the WHOLE point mate.
Who wants to go to bloody court in the first place twit. You will be suspended from work, you will end up in the papers, you will have a stigmar attached forever, you will be blacklisted......on an on I could go mate.
Now I will say again....get the safeguards INTO the legislation NOW.
Thats what the post was about mate.....have a think about it before you mouth off like so many replies.
Who wants to go to bloody court in the first place twit. You will be suspended from work, you will end up in the papers, you will have a stigmar attached forever, you will be blacklisted......on an on I could go mate.
Now I will say again....get the safeguards INTO the legislation NOW.
Thats what the post was about mate.....have a think about it before you mouth off like so many replies.
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Quote emu".....YOU CANNOT REFUSE a test and you may not even be on duty and be asked to do a test......how will they determine who is on duty and who is not....etc etc etc...walking from one hangar to the next at a country aerodrome (like you have done for 30 years) after having a couple on Friday afternoon....how do you convince the man/lady that jumps out of the bushes that you are not on duty....make no mistake this will occur and you need safeguard legislation...YOU CANNOT REFUSE A TEST!"
Mate,Ihave to use the same quote,and hopefuly you dont regard it as "mouthing off"
I use your example for my situation,and as an expat flying in the states these rules apply here only and have no bearing downunder...currently......but the thinking still remains similar...
What constitutes a test here whilst being on "duty" is that ...even if you are not on "duty",you are NOT a required crew-member on "duty",BUT if you are in a restricted area,if you are on airport property,if you are engaged in activities for your company,even if not in uniform,even if you are going to the hangar,even if you are on staff travel displaying your ID .....IF YOU ARE WEARING AN I.D....on your person that is displayed FOR ALL TO SEE....you technically can be tested.....and prosecuted under those laws....
I have heard of cases whereby,individuals(wearing I.D.) have been held because of their behaviour....not sure of the consequences,and by the sounds of it,youd have to be a right w@#ker for it to happen.......
I can see this happening all over.....due to the sensitive and security nature of todays aviation scene,these types of laws,whether you agree or not ,will be inacted to presumambly,"protect" all those concernred.....
theres a big difference between doing the "right thing" and arguing the point because you think your individual rights are being taken away,just because it doesnt involve you personally......these laws are designed for the good of the "game" and the" individual."........and the "game" is always bigger than the "individual."..
Mate,Ihave to use the same quote,and hopefuly you dont regard it as "mouthing off"
I use your example for my situation,and as an expat flying in the states these rules apply here only and have no bearing downunder...currently......but the thinking still remains similar...
What constitutes a test here whilst being on "duty" is that ...even if you are not on "duty",you are NOT a required crew-member on "duty",BUT if you are in a restricted area,if you are on airport property,if you are engaged in activities for your company,even if not in uniform,even if you are going to the hangar,even if you are on staff travel displaying your ID .....IF YOU ARE WEARING AN I.D....on your person that is displayed FOR ALL TO SEE....you technically can be tested.....and prosecuted under those laws....
I have heard of cases whereby,individuals(wearing I.D.) have been held because of their behaviour....not sure of the consequences,and by the sounds of it,youd have to be a right w@#ker for it to happen.......
I can see this happening all over.....due to the sensitive and security nature of todays aviation scene,these types of laws,whether you agree or not ,will be inacted to presumambly,"protect" all those concernred.....
theres a big difference between doing the "right thing" and arguing the point because you think your individual rights are being taken away,just because it doesnt involve you personally......these laws are designed for the good of the "game" and the" individual."........and the "game" is always bigger than the "individual."..
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emu787: whatever...
I've been around long enough to know ****-stirring 1/2-truths when I see 'em, and I'll continue to call 'em as I see 'em. The scenario you post is a toss and I suspect you know it.
I've been around long enough to know ****-stirring 1/2-truths when I see 'em, and I'll continue to call 'em as I see 'em. The scenario you post is a toss and I suspect you know it.
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Perceptions??
I remember an occasion where two RFDS pilots who had finished their day's flying on a very hot day, consumed a can of beer while completing their paperwork in the office. But the job was still not completed. The aircraft were still on the tarmac, and the routine was for pilots to make sure the aircraft were prepared for an immediate departure, and secured before they went home.
Then the phone rang, and we were told that the CEO was in town, and was about to visit us. Those aircraft were put to bed in record time, and the pilots disappeared.
There was never any time when any of the pilots would ever consider flying after drinking, but it could have appeared that way, and been very hard to explain, on this occasion.
Perceptions are important.
I believe there should not be alcohol at any premises where pilots are during their duty times.
One of the pilots I worked with was sentenced to four months in an overseas prison for being on duty with a high blood alcohol level. I don't think he actually flew.
It is real.
Then the phone rang, and we were told that the CEO was in town, and was about to visit us. Those aircraft were put to bed in record time, and the pilots disappeared.
There was never any time when any of the pilots would ever consider flying after drinking, but it could have appeared that way, and been very hard to explain, on this occasion.
Perceptions are important.
I believe there should not be alcohol at any premises where pilots are during their duty times.
One of the pilots I worked with was sentenced to four months in an overseas prison for being on duty with a high blood alcohol level. I don't think he actually flew.
It is real.
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I believe there should not be alcohol at any premises where pilots are during their duty times.
