Airmanship at Ardmore.
But I can still look at the hostee but not touch
Join Date: Jun 2007
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I have asked a lot of my fellow students and some of the instructors - none have ever seen or heard an aircraft using Kelly Field.From what I can make out it is hardly ever used so yes - aircraft practicing forced landings may well use that bit of airspace without thought.
When the Vintage Aero Club last met there (earlier this year), we heard about half-a-dozen aircraft making approaches and then powering away (FLWOPs?). Not a peep on the airfield frequency.
Russell does currently operate his Luscombe out of there, but he spends a lot of time overseas. His shed is full of some really cool old aircraft in various states of restoration. It is his private field and traffic levels will never be huge, but it will increase as Russell disengages from his American business and concentrates on becoming an aircraft restorer.
A good lookout will become more vital as activity increases. I'll see you in the circuit (and I hope you see me).
Join Date: Apr 2007
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It's got me beat. IMO its just plain, common courtesy to ask.
Thats what piss poor airmanship is.
As a curtosy gesture. I always leave a contact number in the window..... was it too much to ring me?
Join Date: Jul 2003
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I still fail to see what that has to do with airmanship. IMO it is still a courtesy issue. I have never seen anyone push anothers aircraft out onto a taxiway, no matter how upset they may be. That's not in anyone's best interests. Are you sure he was a local??? Would be interested what time it was you got there... with QN being a daylight hours only airport, it's very very unusual for there to be no-one on the airfield at all at the time of your arrival.
No comment on the phone issue -I don't know the circumstances, his or yours. Seems from your post that he did track you down to tell you he had shifted your aircraft though... strange he wasn't about for you to ask earlier.
No comment on the phone issue -I don't know the circumstances, his or yours. Seems from your post that he did track you down to tell you he had shifted your aircraft though... strange he wasn't about for you to ask earlier.
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Airmanship is not limited to what goes on in the air.
Blue, It was only by chance my ride was as late as it was that I was still lurking about the airport and was found, no attempt to find me I dont think and in anycase the a/c had already been shifted. Yes it was late in the evening an no, nobody was around although there are many a hangers anyone could have been.
Yes the pilik was local as he was wearing the uniform for whatever outfit he worked for (it was is/was one of the scenic operators there. It was a familiar brand name there but I dont recall exactly who this long after nor should it matter)
Eitherway... were his actions justifiable? un-tieing someones a/c who you dont know and just leaving it in the taxiway? Me thinks not. I would rather someone innocently line up infront of me at AR than have to do deal with that sort of tantrum again.
Blue, It was only by chance my ride was as late as it was that I was still lurking about the airport and was found, no attempt to find me I dont think and in anycase the a/c had already been shifted. Yes it was late in the evening an no, nobody was around although there are many a hangers anyone could have been.
Yes the pilik was local as he was wearing the uniform for whatever outfit he worked for (it was is/was one of the scenic operators there. It was a familiar brand name there but I dont recall exactly who this long after nor should it matter)
Eitherway... were his actions justifiable? un-tieing someones a/c who you dont know and just leaving it in the taxiway? Me thinks not. I would rather someone innocently line up infront of me at AR than have to do deal with that sort of tantrum again.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Wombat35 - Interesting you mention that runup bay at AR. Have they sealed it properly yet? When I had a winge to Gates about it he told me they were going to seal it. But something told me they are too tight for that.
The airport company also as a 'FOD BOSS' which is towed behind a vehicle to pick up stones, but as it periodically needs maintenance, I was told they are saving ithe use of it for emergencies! Auckland INternational has two of these devices and when I worked there we towed it around daily and it went forever before maintenance! So another excuse from the good old Ardmore Airport Authority.
The airport company also as a 'FOD BOSS' which is towed behind a vehicle to pick up stones, but as it periodically needs maintenance, I was told they are saving ithe use of it for emergencies! Auckland INternational has two of these devices and when I worked there we towed it around daily and it went forever before maintenance! So another excuse from the good old Ardmore Airport Authority.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Originally Posted by muttly's pigeon
...than have to do deal with that sort of tantrum again.
Could you have tried harder to ensure where you parked was appropriate? Or was the draw of the bright lights and bars too insistent?
One wonders.
kiwiblue -
Like people have been trying to point out to you, maybe there is another side to the various generalised arguments you have been trumpeting.
An example given that appears to be a little closer to home (geographically) and your tone changes.
Have been trying to get an idea of what your points are but they now just come across as an opportunity to bag out pilots from north of the waimak??? I'm sure thats not what you intended, and maybe you lost your point somewhere in the keyboard, but after that last post it does appear that way.
Anyway, regards the original thread....
For whatever reasons, the fact remains that aircraft have been operating in, around, near this particular field inappropriately.
That needs to be addressed. In this case, it appears that it could be resolved reasonably amicably by taking the initiative to approach the flying schools concerned.
Unfortunately the original poster has chosen this forum to vent his/her frustration instead of taking a more proactive approach to trying to resolve the issue.
Is there a Ardmore Airport users group where these type of issues can be discussed?
Regards the thread drift....
I completely agree, local knowledge is pretty much the key to operating safely, no matter how big or small the aircraft.
The problem can sometimes be getting access to that knowledge. For whatever reason not everyone you meet on the airfield can be all that thrilled to say hello. The key is overcoming that initial reluctance and promoting the sharing of ideas for the improvement of safety.
Unfortunately students can be hesitant to approach locals for fear of being wrong, embarrassed, unsure of their operation, all those silly reasons that should not really be present but are, and particularly those from flying schools as they miss out on the closer ties of the aero club scene, and also unfortunately sometimes from stories and examples getting passed down like Mutley has described.
It appears that the root of most concerns are itinerant pilots not appreciating local procedures. Generally, most itinerant pilots are students.
If you're an instructor out there reading this thread, maybe take this opportunity to review how you promote the importance of local procedural knowledge to your students, look at how your company or club improves their knowledge of operating into the various aerodromes they frequent, and more importantly, those they fly to not so frequently.
Like people have been trying to point out to you, maybe there is another side to the various generalised arguments you have been trumpeting.
An example given that appears to be a little closer to home (geographically) and your tone changes.
Have been trying to get an idea of what your points are but they now just come across as an opportunity to bag out pilots from north of the waimak??? I'm sure thats not what you intended, and maybe you lost your point somewhere in the keyboard, but after that last post it does appear that way.
Anyway, regards the original thread....
For whatever reasons, the fact remains that aircraft have been operating in, around, near this particular field inappropriately.
That needs to be addressed. In this case, it appears that it could be resolved reasonably amicably by taking the initiative to approach the flying schools concerned.
Unfortunately the original poster has chosen this forum to vent his/her frustration instead of taking a more proactive approach to trying to resolve the issue.
Is there a Ardmore Airport users group where these type of issues can be discussed?
Regards the thread drift....
I completely agree, local knowledge is pretty much the key to operating safely, no matter how big or small the aircraft.
The problem can sometimes be getting access to that knowledge. For whatever reason not everyone you meet on the airfield can be all that thrilled to say hello. The key is overcoming that initial reluctance and promoting the sharing of ideas for the improvement of safety.
Unfortunately students can be hesitant to approach locals for fear of being wrong, embarrassed, unsure of their operation, all those silly reasons that should not really be present but are, and particularly those from flying schools as they miss out on the closer ties of the aero club scene, and also unfortunately sometimes from stories and examples getting passed down like Mutley has described.
It appears that the root of most concerns are itinerant pilots not appreciating local procedures. Generally, most itinerant pilots are students.
If you're an instructor out there reading this thread, maybe take this opportunity to review how you promote the importance of local procedural knowledge to your students, look at how your company or club improves their knowledge of operating into the various aerodromes they frequent, and more importantly, those they fly to not so frequently.
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I assure you Nike, my arguments are anything but generalised. I speak from very personal, oft repeated experience, but choose to modify the tone of my posts to suit the situation, nothing more or less.
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Blue, doesnt matter if it was the tenth time that day.... Still not a justified move is it not?
If I were the indivual and had a problem then I would have a sign put up or something in the AIP (like NZHN does). Heck I could even ring the 'culprit'. Really no need to for happened.
Cant believe you would try and defend this particular action of the individual.
RE: NZAR - would have thought things might be quieter there nowaways with Massey gone and CTC/simuflight gone? Judging by this thread I guess not?
If I were the indivual and had a problem then I would have a sign put up or something in the AIP (like NZHN does). Heck I could even ring the 'culprit'. Really no need to for happened.
Cant believe you would try and defend this particular action of the individual.
RE: NZAR - would have thought things might be quieter there nowaways with Massey gone and CTC/simuflight gone? Judging by this thread I guess not?
Join Date: Nov 2004
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muttly's pigeon - heck dont say that, they'll put something in the AIP that says we must ring all the 'local operators' In QN and seek permission prior to being allowed to park at QN.
Actually bugger it, ill give Qantas and Air New Zealand a ring and get a gate, at least ill get some sense from them even if it does cost a small fortune to have an air birdge to my C172
Seems to me you boys in QN have a few issues!
Actually bugger it, ill give Qantas and Air New Zealand a ring and get a gate, at least ill get some sense from them even if it does cost a small fortune to have an air birdge to my C172
Seems to me you boys in QN have a few issues!
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even if it does cost a small fortune to have an air birdge to my C172
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Given the density of traffic at HN these days with CTC and the rest, it would be worse than AR if the tower did not exist. I've been in and out of Papakura International once or twice in my time, and it turns out if you real the bloody AIP and follow the procedures, plus give a little understanding for solo students, bugger me it works just fine!!
Those who think they should be able to rock up to a busy airport in an 'airspace corner' and do as you would for any other place, and then BITCH about it - pull your f****n heads in.
Those who think they should be able to rock up to a busy airport in an 'airspace corner' and do as you would for any other place, and then BITCH about it - pull your f****n heads in.
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On the back of Ardmore talk, any idea why an instructor on the Unicom thinks they can tell planes to 'go around'? Some AR instructors think they are God's gift.
I know it gets busy but pilots in the circuit should be using their nouse and helping each other out.
I know where I would be telling them where to go around to.
I know it gets busy but pilots in the circuit should be using their nouse and helping each other out.
I know where I would be telling them where to go around to.
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well i spent over 4 years in and out of the ardmore circuit and never once heard that.
I do not for one instant believe that any instrutor or unicom operator would tell someone to go around. And I know ALOT of instructors, and all of the uniucom operators over the last 4 years. Top guys and girls!
I do not for one instant believe that any instrutor or unicom operator would tell someone to go around. And I know ALOT of instructors, and all of the uniucom operators over the last 4 years. Top guys and girls!
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For them to be issuing any instructions in any form (if thats the case) is also highly illegal, and does not comply with what a Unicom service can do as determined by CAA, and would wind them up in a pile of **** if an aircraft incident or accident occurred as a result of that instruction. If AR Unicom service IS providing instructions (psuedo ATC) then it should be reported to CAA as this is a breach of their certificate!!!
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The safest place for a UNICOM service to be provided from is a room with no windows so they aren't tempted to issue any form of instructions or traffic information. Stick them in the tower as they are and some may "get ideas above their station".