ATC with Attitude
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ATC with Attitude
Geez, there was an unhappy departures chappy in Sydney this arvo - I think it was 118.4 - made it seem as if it was beneath him to have GA in his airspace. 
In the space of about 5 minutes:
Pilot # 1 given a clearance to RWY 16 with instructions that included tracking with reference to Leichardt . This guy was chewed out when he said “unfamiliar” - the ATC response was “You shouldn’t be flying around Sydney if you don’t know where Leichardt is”, then did not provide an alternative description of the clearance for the safe conduct of the flight until prompted by the pilot. Unprofessional.
Pilot # 2 (GA IFR) read back a frequency change instruction which was overtransmitted by another (RPT) ACFT. This same ATC called again with the assumption that the pilot hadn’t heard or responded – and when the pilot responded with the read back for a second time had the hide to caution him curtly with “Please listen out!” - it was in the tone . Buddy, things get overtransmitted, there’s stuff to do in the cockpit just as there’s stuff to do at the console – and I don’t hear anyone chewing ATC out because they miss a call……..
Pilot # 3 was an aircraft in G at Long Reef at 500’ – this same departures guy went to the trouble of getting an RPT to contact the pilot of the aircraft on another frequency get his call sign to then call him on the DEP FRQ to sort out whether he was at 900’ or 500’. Again very rude and abrupt.
Interestingly, non-response by RPT to calls didn’t get met with the same abruptness, just a repeat of the instruction.
Mate, you might have a bad day, but don’t appear angry on the airwaves and furthermore don't take it out on the people you’re supposed to be providing a service to, because your more professional colleagues don't.
In the space of about 5 minutes:
Pilot # 1 given a clearance to RWY 16 with instructions that included tracking with reference to Leichardt . This guy was chewed out when he said “unfamiliar” - the ATC response was “You shouldn’t be flying around Sydney if you don’t know where Leichardt is”, then did not provide an alternative description of the clearance for the safe conduct of the flight until prompted by the pilot. Unprofessional.
Pilot # 2 (GA IFR) read back a frequency change instruction which was overtransmitted by another (RPT) ACFT. This same ATC called again with the assumption that the pilot hadn’t heard or responded – and when the pilot responded with the read back for a second time had the hide to caution him curtly with “Please listen out!” - it was in the tone . Buddy, things get overtransmitted, there’s stuff to do in the cockpit just as there’s stuff to do at the console – and I don’t hear anyone chewing ATC out because they miss a call……..
Pilot # 3 was an aircraft in G at Long Reef at 500’ – this same departures guy went to the trouble of getting an RPT to contact the pilot of the aircraft on another frequency get his call sign to then call him on the DEP FRQ to sort out whether he was at 900’ or 500’. Again very rude and abrupt.
Interestingly, non-response by RPT to calls didn’t get met with the same abruptness, just a repeat of the instruction.
Mate, you might have a bad day, but don’t appear angry on the airwaves and furthermore don't take it out on the people you’re supposed to be providing a service to, because your more professional colleagues don't.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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i was flyin in the sydney one day last year, there were many aircraft in a hold over some VOR i have forgetten what it was called. a Qantas aircraft asked nicely for a landing time sydney.. ATC response was "QANTAS 912 do not speak to me untill i speak to you "
I would have reported the F WIT..... ps not sure on qantas's callsign either
But sounds like those fellas in ATC need a chill pill
I would have reported the F WIT..... ps not sure on qantas's callsign either
But sounds like those fellas in ATC need a chill pill
I've had some less than ideal interactions with ATC in the past, and I have posted a few of my gripes on here - but I gotta say ......
Just got back from 17 hrs flying over 7 days in the Bo: YBTL-YROM-YSCB-YMEN-YBKE-YTWB-YBTL.
Some of the crappiest weather I have been in for a while - I am thinking of advertising my services as a cloud seeder. Everywhere I went it p*ssed down.
All of the ATC guys and gals I encountered were absolutely tops! Very professional, friendly and helpful.
Dr
Just got back from 17 hrs flying over 7 days in the Bo: YBTL-YROM-YSCB-YMEN-YBKE-YTWB-YBTL.
Some of the crappiest weather I have been in for a while - I am thinking of advertising my services as a cloud seeder. Everywhere I went it p*ssed down.
All of the ATC guys and gals I encountered were absolutely tops! Very professional, friendly and helpful.
Dr
I don't generally have any probs with SYD controllers and I deal with them every week but there are one or two voices I hear and I think "oh boy here we go"...the usual suspects.
The above is example is VERY poor IMHO. I was asked 2 weeks ago to hold in my present position which I did. I was wanting to track North and I had just started my turn to the South outbound in the hold where I was told to track to my northern waypoint. I was halfway through immediately turning around to the North when ATC barked in my ear that he asked me to track north and why wasn't I doing so???
Gimme a friggin chance to spin the tail around! I am sure my pax wouldn't want me to pull a steepy.
Anyway everyone has bad days and good days but we are all on the same team (supposedly) so lets be a little more helpful and understanding.
The above is example is VERY poor IMHO. I was asked 2 weeks ago to hold in my present position which I did. I was wanting to track North and I had just started my turn to the South outbound in the hold where I was told to track to my northern waypoint. I was halfway through immediately turning around to the North when ATC barked in my ear that he asked me to track north and why wasn't I doing so???
Gimme a friggin chance to spin the tail around! I am sure my pax wouldn't want me to pull a steepy.
Anyway everyone has bad days and good days but we are all on the same team (supposedly) so lets be a little more helpful and understanding.
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Adamastor - Ego? Afraid the quote is far from original and would be familiar to many who dabble in professional aviation, as its oft used when discussing the sometimes less than harmonious interplay between the two parties.
See post 2 at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99720 and post 22 at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99720
See post 2 at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99720 and post 22 at http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=99720
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I'm so glad you thought it was clever, J430.
Me? I thought the comment was fairly indicative of the highly pervasive attitude of most pilots that I've flown with, namely that somewhere within their training they came to the conclusion that they are the undisputed Masters of the Aviation Universe.
I imagine Messrs Las and Abraham consider themselves far superior to all sorts of people contributing to aviation, not just the controllers. When I fly, I try to think of it as a team concept - you know, everyone working together toward the same goal. But if it makes you feel better to go home at night and tell yourself that you personally provide employment to all the engineers, flight attendants, baggage handlers, catering staff and the multitude of others who help get people to where they're going as they do their jobs to the best of their ability, then knock yourselves out! I repeat, go, you Sky Gods, go!!!
Adamastor
P.S. The logical extension to your conceit suggests that you wouldn't get to sit up there on your Lofty Thrones of Imperiousness if the passengers weren't paying - after all, are they back there because you're up front or vice versa? Learn some humility, people. It's just a job.
Me? I thought the comment was fairly indicative of the highly pervasive attitude of most pilots that I've flown with, namely that somewhere within their training they came to the conclusion that they are the undisputed Masters of the Aviation Universe.
I imagine Messrs Las and Abraham consider themselves far superior to all sorts of people contributing to aviation, not just the controllers. When I fly, I try to think of it as a team concept - you know, everyone working together toward the same goal. But if it makes you feel better to go home at night and tell yourself that you personally provide employment to all the engineers, flight attendants, baggage handlers, catering staff and the multitude of others who help get people to where they're going as they do their jobs to the best of their ability, then knock yourselves out! I repeat, go, you Sky Gods, go!!!
Adamastor
P.S. The logical extension to your conceit suggests that you wouldn't get to sit up there on your Lofty Thrones of Imperiousness if the passengers weren't paying - after all, are they back there because you're up front or vice versa? Learn some humility, people. It's just a job.
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Adamastor
Was your last post aimed at me in any way? I am one of the team players and a very minor insignificant part at that. A mere drop in the aviation ocean, but I thought BRIAN ABRAHAMS quote was not so offensive, rather a tongue in cheek swipe at pilots v atc's who was keeping who up where.
Maybe I have missed something, easily confused some times with the cunning literary talents of some posters
Maybe you have missed something too and might need to lighten up a bit. Cheer up its not really that bad. And to the folk in ATC land and probably most in Sydney even on a job well done.......most of the time
J
Was your last post aimed at me in any way? I am one of the team players and a very minor insignificant part at that. A mere drop in the aviation ocean, but I thought BRIAN ABRAHAMS quote was not so offensive, rather a tongue in cheek swipe at pilots v atc's who was keeping who up where.
Maybe I have missed something, easily confused some times with the cunning literary talents of some posters
Maybe you have missed something too and might need to lighten up a bit. Cheer up its not really that bad. And to the folk in ATC land and probably most in Sydney even
on a job well done.......most of the time J
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ATC could probably post a daily scripture of pilots with attitude.
But they don't.
But they don't.
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Reference to the original post. the vast majority of my own contact with atc has been very professional and they have helped me out of a tight spot here and there, they are 99.9 % top blokes (and ladies) 0.1 % mongrels. I think the first instance "pilot # 1" is in the 0.1% and worthy of phone call or email to casa requesting further clarification, quote "You shouldn't’t be flying around Sydney if you don’t know where Leichardt is” it is just not good enough, How well do you think it would go if a pilot told the controller "you shouldn't be sitting in the tower if you don't know what your doing" The second two are easy mistakes and misunderstandings that perhaps could have been dealt with in a better way.
Adamastor if theres anything out there bigger than my ego I want it found and shot immediately.
Adamastor if theres anything out there bigger than my ego I want it found and shot immediately.
