Breath testing
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Breath testing
Apologies if this has already been posted.
Drug tests for aviators
Drug tests for aviators
ANYONE involved in the aviation industry, from a commercial airline mechanic to a private citizen flying a crop duster, will now be alcohol and drug tested.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has been given $9 million to spend over three years to introduce a regulated breathalyser operation.
The scheme will test any personnel – either private fliers or employed staff – who are not already being tested under commercial schemes, such as airline pilots.
Department of Transport officials confirmed the scheme would begin in the 2007-08 financial year and said it was designed to increase air safety, particularly around small regional airports.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority has been given $9 million to spend over three years to introduce a regulated breathalyser operation.
The scheme will test any personnel – either private fliers or employed staff – who are not already being tested under commercial schemes, such as airline pilots.
Department of Transport officials confirmed the scheme would begin in the 2007-08 financial year and said it was designed to increase air safety, particularly around small regional airports.
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Is this where all the extra money we spend on medicals is going?
I would have thought that you would find 99.999% of pilots are 100% safe from its the 0.001% that they are trying to catch.....and probably will not!
Better spent on education of not just alcohol and drugs, but weather, unstable approaches, decission making. Probably pay a cost subsidy to an operator who holds and goes around rather than fly a dodgy approach! Might save more than just mony that way!
What a waste
J
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The numbers are probably a little higher than that J-430, but still probably considerably less than 5%!
Grandpa Aerotart
I have flown with a few alcoholics over the years...and maybe one could be considered 'unsafe' as a result of his alcoholism...even then he was only 'unsafe' if the FO let him be so...oddly enough he generally only got dodgy as the booze wore off during the course of a day's flying...he was 'fine' when 'under the influence'...he is was 'retired' early.
This is beaurocracy going after something that is so small an issue it is best left to the mechanism that has been taking care of it since day 1...'in house'...it worked perfectly in the above (extreme) example.
Feckwits.
This is beaurocracy going after something that is so small an issue it is best left to the mechanism that has been taking care of it since day 1...'in house'...it worked perfectly in the above (extreme) example.
Feckwits.
Welcome back Aussie, where have you been all this time??? 
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You have flown with a few
So when sober....were they OK? I understand after hours booze dependency to wash away the day, but an all day influence is something else.
Maybe you dont want to say more publically, but that is staggering espeially when Howard Hughes says its more like 5%.
If its 5% in the ATPL/CPL world.....$3M is not enough, that is damn fecking serious. I suspect its not that bad.
I have sat here at the PC.......on the old MS FS2004 and compared performance of BAC0.00 and a few reds later.....well lets say I would not fly with me then either! Same as racing cars, I hate to think how well I would perform on the track.............
J
You have flown with a few
So when sober....were they OK? I understand after hours booze dependency to wash away the day, but an all day influence is something else.
Maybe you dont want to say more publically, but that is staggering espeially when Howard Hughes says its more like 5%.
If its 5% in the ATPL/CPL world.....$3M is not enough, that is damn fecking serious. I suspect its not that bad.
I have sat here at the PC.......on the old MS FS2004 and compared performance of BAC0.00 and a few reds later.....well lets say I would not fly with me then either! Same as racing cars, I hate to think how well I would perform on the track.............
J
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I was assisting someone with an aircraft endo recently and he was having a lot of trouble landing. After a single beer at lunch and back into it he was doing heaps better, noticeably relaxed, had lost the gorilla grip and overall flew very well. I was interested in the results.
Bottums Up
Originally Posted by VH-XXX
I was assisting someone with an aircraft endo recently and he was having a lot of trouble landing. After a single beer at lunch and back into it he was doing heaps better, noticeably relaxed, had lost the gorilla grip and overall flew very well. I was interested in the results.
Why did he have a quick beer with lunch?
Why did you go flying with him after lunch?
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Howard Hughes says its more like 5%.
considerably less than 5%!
Now I am not saying that people turn up to work drunk, that number would be almost miniscule. But there are a lot that push the boundaries, ie: push the minimum time between drinking and working! I consider this in itself a serious offence, one that breaks the duty of care that we owe our passengers!
Am I without fault? NO!
Do I have personally imposed limits that are far more restrictive than any regulatory or company imposed limits? YES!
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Sorry Howard
I clearly misread your post ...........and I should be more careful before posting
.
Either way, you have raised a point more clearly now, if a bit of a night out is follwed by flying 6-7 hours later, I do reckon you are still over 0.02 even.
I prefer the if in doubt don't theory myself.
J
I clearly misread your post
...........and I should be more careful before posting .Either way, you have raised a point more clearly now, if a bit of a night out is follwed by flying 6-7 hours later, I do reckon you are still over 0.02 even.
I prefer the if in doubt don't theory myself.
J
Grandpa Aerotart
J430 it was a LONG time ago in PNG.
It is also worth remembering that perhaps only 40 years ago it was deemed fairly acceptable in some quarters...the Military for instance had a different view of alcohol and flying then than now. How long is it since Air France pilots stopped having wine with their in flight meals...I'd be surprised if it is 10 years.
I am not suggesting I have seen people, or flown with people who turned up to work reeking of booze or unsteady on their feet...far from it...but when someone starts the day 'normal' and as the day progresses gets bad tempered not to mention the sweats and shakes, you know there is a problem. When management are fully conversant with 'the problem' and you're a new employee you just let the system work...and it has worked and continues to work.
I would suggest these days the problem is miniscule...a vanishingly small % for booze and I personally have never known of a pilot on recreational drugs. The system has weeded them out over time...the last of the dinosaurs so to speak. Society has changed too...what was acceptable in the long past is no longer deemed to be so.
This ruling is just a knee jerk reaction to the Cherokee 6 crash at Hamo...it is an expensive 'fix' for a near non existant problem.
NASA studies show quite clearly that a pilot at the end of an all night ultra longhaul flight can display impairment equivalent to having a BAC in excess of the driving limit.
The authorities don't seem keen, or even vaguely interested, to get anywhere near that problem but instead pass silly laws like this one...what is wrong with this picture
What % of aircraft accidents have booze as a contributing factor...I don't think I have EVER heard of one...what about fatigue?
It is also worth remembering that perhaps only 40 years ago it was deemed fairly acceptable in some quarters...the Military for instance had a different view of alcohol and flying then than now. How long is it since Air France pilots stopped having wine with their in flight meals...I'd be surprised if it is 10 years.
I am not suggesting I have seen people, or flown with people who turned up to work reeking of booze or unsteady on their feet...far from it...but when someone starts the day 'normal' and as the day progresses gets bad tempered not to mention the sweats and shakes, you know there is a problem. When management are fully conversant with 'the problem' and you're a new employee you just let the system work...and it has worked and continues to work.
I would suggest these days the problem is miniscule...a vanishingly small % for booze and I personally have never known of a pilot on recreational drugs. The system has weeded them out over time...the last of the dinosaurs so to speak. Society has changed too...what was acceptable in the long past is no longer deemed to be so.
This ruling is just a knee jerk reaction to the Cherokee 6 crash at Hamo...it is an expensive 'fix' for a near non existant problem.
NASA studies show quite clearly that a pilot at the end of an all night ultra longhaul flight can display impairment equivalent to having a BAC in excess of the driving limit.
The authorities don't seem keen, or even vaguely interested, to get anywhere near that problem but instead pass silly laws like this one...what is wrong with this picture
What % of aircraft accidents have booze as a contributing factor...I don't think I have EVER heard of one...what about fatigue?
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Would agree with you there. You talk of the old days, I hear stories of the old days and big parties on stopovers, one wonders how the post 8 hours effects on hydration and fatigue effected the crews then.
Maybe we are softer these days
Still a gross waste of resources better spent on education or other things that would actually help safety. I thought Bruce byron wanted to be less "Enforcer" and more "Educator"
Cheers
J
Would agree with you there. You talk of the old days, I hear stories of the old days and big parties on stopovers, one wonders how the post 8 hours effects on hydration and fatigue effected the crews then.
Maybe we are softer these days
Still a gross waste of resources better spent on education or other things that would actually help safety. I thought Bruce byron wanted to be less "Enforcer" and more "Educator"
Cheers
J
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the big time!!
heres some food for thought!
my father is a qantas pilot, and he has told me of many occasion that he has flown with a captain who is totally off his chops!!!! now if he sais something and is wrong he loses his job, as there is a strictttttt policy of going against and reporting the capt., his thought is if anything goes wrong at least he knows he can be in complte control of the A/C.
now, i think they are tryig to spook all of us little GA pilots with it, but i havent heard of nayone happening to them yet......my guess is they may show up at the Birdsville races!!! god chance of that...
Anyway bakc to the point, if for example a Qantas 400 goes down and it is shown the capt. was drunik, let me tell you it would cost the economy a hell lot more than 9 million dollars. tourism would drop because people only fly q simply de to the safety record! not the prices!!!
im preety sur they will be 99% of the time be hitting those guys up and rightly so: they have 500 pax, and can wipe out a good block or 2 of people when they crash land!!!
anyway..ij off for a beer hehe
my father is a qantas pilot, and he has told me of many occasion that he has flown with a captain who is totally off his chops!!!! now if he sais something and is wrong he loses his job, as there is a strictttttt policy of going against and reporting the capt., his thought is if anything goes wrong at least he knows he can be in complte control of the A/C.
now, i think they are tryig to spook all of us little GA pilots with it, but i havent heard of nayone happening to them yet......my guess is they may show up at the Birdsville races!!! god chance of that...
Anyway bakc to the point, if for example a Qantas 400 goes down and it is shown the capt. was drunik, let me tell you it would cost the economy a hell lot more than 9 million dollars. tourism would drop because people only fly q simply de to the safety record! not the prices!!!
im preety sur they will be 99% of the time be hitting those guys up and rightly so: they have 500 pax, and can wipe out a good block or 2 of people when they crash land!!!
anyway..ij off for a beer hehe