IFR Position Reports
Join Date: Jul 2000
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And if you guys want to get really anal…..
ENR 1.1 – 11.1.1
After any frequency change, pilots must advise the last assigned level and, if not maintaining the assigned level, the level maintaining or last vacated level; eg, “MELBOURNE CENTRE (CALLSIGN) CLEARED FLIGHT LEVEL TWO ONE ZERO, LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL TWO NINER ZERO”.
GEN 3.4 – 4.5.3
ATS: ”(aircraft call-sign) BEHIND A340 ON SHORT FINAL, LINE UP [RUNWAY (number)] BEHIND”.
Pilot: “BEHIND THE A340 LINING UP [RUNWAY (number)] (aircraft call sign)”
The second behind in your example is, as you said, just added verbage.
Not having a go guys, but it just goes to show that few if any of us have perfect R/T phraseology.
the word "leaving" shouldn't really ever be used, only "left". Leaving doesn't indicate the vacation of a level, only the intention, which is kind of irrelevant.
After any frequency change, pilots must advise the last assigned level and, if not maintaining the assigned level, the level maintaining or last vacated level; eg, “MELBOURNE CENTRE (CALLSIGN) CLEARED FLIGHT LEVEL TWO ONE ZERO, LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL TWO NINER ZERO”.
Some things do require verbatim readback..."Behind the landing 737 line up behind XYZ" for instance….Adding in verbage is just lack of discipline
ATS: ”(aircraft call-sign) BEHIND A340 ON SHORT FINAL, LINE UP [RUNWAY (number)] BEHIND”.
Pilot: “BEHIND THE A340 LINING UP [RUNWAY (number)] (aircraft call sign)”
The second behind in your example is, as you said, just added verbage.
Not having a go guys, but it just goes to show that few if any of us have perfect R/T phraseology.
Grandpa Aerotart
You're correct...and I left out the runway
The difference between sat in an aeroplane and sat in front of a 'puter.
I must admit I usually put in the second 'behind' and that may be incorrect...but I am reasonably sure on one or two occassions I have not and then been challenged as a result.
Like I said, I try but rarely with 100% perfection over the course of a flight or series of flights.
Even after 27 years I am a work in progress
The difference between sat in an aeroplane and sat in front of a 'puter.
I must admit I usually put in the second 'behind' and that may be incorrect...but I am reasonably sure on one or two occassions I have not and then been challenged as a result.
Like I said, I try but rarely with 100% perfection over the course of a flight or series of flights.
Even after 27 years I am a work in progress
Join Date: Jun 2002
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EG
one first contact with APPR
ABC APPR, XYZ left FL180 cleared FL140
and when cleared to descend within Controlled space
XYZ left FL123
I have to admit sometimes I add on first contact with APPR or TWR at certain destinations that I advise them of the clearance I have due to past hiccups in communication. Wrong but I would rather in certain circumstances use more than exact to confirm understanding between all parties.
OK shoot me now
one first contact with APPR
ABC APPR, XYZ left FL180 cleared FL140
and when cleared to descend within Controlled space
XYZ left FL123
I have to admit sometimes I add on first contact with APPR or TWR at certain destinations that I advise them of the clearance I have due to past hiccups in communication. Wrong but I would rather in certain circumstances use more than exact to confirm understanding between all parties.
OK shoot me now
Grandpa Aerotart
Max I don't think that could be reasonably argued against. You're still using a minimum of verbage and standard phraseology to communicate effectively.
It is like getting a frequency change after descent clearance but before TOPD...I say "Blah control, XYZ maintaining flight level three five zero, assigned flight level one four zero"....but I am unsure whether that is absolutely correct or if I have picked it up somewhere along the way, thought it was a good idea and adopted it.
I view that greatly different to ackowledging an instruction like "XYZ call departures now" with "Call departures now, XYZ".
But that is just me.
It is like getting a frequency change after descent clearance but before TOPD...I say "Blah control, XYZ maintaining flight level three five zero, assigned flight level one four zero"....but I am unsure whether that is absolutely correct or if I have picked it up somewhere along the way, thought it was a good idea and adopted it.
I view that greatly different to ackowledging an instruction like "XYZ call departures now" with "Call departures now, XYZ".
But that is just me.
When you live....
Ok, I have a question!
I often seem to be on the end of "XYZ, standby for clearance".
Does this require a reply of "XYZ" or no response?
UTR.
I often seem to be on the end of "XYZ, standby for clearance".
Does this require a reply of "XYZ" or no response?
UTR.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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I usually leave this particular subject on Pprune alone. It comes up often by fairly new members, and always goes through the same motions with the same gripes.
I do however have two that are starting to really great my nerves.
1. When being being transfered to "123.4 expect star"
and when contacting 123.4 they say "go ahead star"
2. When trying to get a clearance from ACD and you are
pipped by somebody doing a 'Courtesy Readback'
Could somebody please give me a Jepps reference to the courtesy readback requirement so when I hear it over an already congested ACD frequency, I at least can say it's a legit call......
Cheers
I do however have two that are starting to really great my nerves.
1. When being being transfered to "123.4 expect star"
and when contacting 123.4 they say "go ahead star"
2. When trying to get a clearance from ACD and you are
pipped by somebody doing a 'Courtesy Readback'
Could somebody please give me a Jepps reference to the courtesy readback requirement so when I hear it over an already congested ACD frequency, I at least can say it's a legit call......
Cheers
"ENR 1.1 – 11.1.1
After any frequency change, pilots must advise the last assigned level and, if not maintaining the assigned level, the level maintaining or last vacated level; eg, “MELBOURNE CENTRE (CALLSIGN) CLEARED FLIGHT LEVEL TWO ONE ZERO, LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL TWO NINER ZERO”.
Question - Why do you need to tell centre "Leaving FL 290? I would only say this if I was outside radar coverage" I fly in NZ so maybe its different. My call would simply be "Centre XYZ descending (or cleared) FL210"
Another question - What happens in AU if you are given a direct GPS track. When you change freq do you say "Centre XYZ FL250 direct XXXXX?" In NZ if we have been cleared direct we say this, otherwise if on FPR just standard call.
Chimble - your info was excellent -thanks.
After any frequency change, pilots must advise the last assigned level and, if not maintaining the assigned level, the level maintaining or last vacated level; eg, “MELBOURNE CENTRE (CALLSIGN) CLEARED FLIGHT LEVEL TWO ONE ZERO, LEAVING FLIGHT LEVEL TWO NINER ZERO”.
Question - Why do you need to tell centre "Leaving FL 290? I would only say this if I was outside radar coverage" I fly in NZ so maybe its different. My call would simply be "Centre XYZ descending (or cleared) FL210"
Another question - What happens in AU if you are given a direct GPS track. When you change freq do you say "Centre XYZ FL250 direct XXXXX?" In NZ if we have been cleared direct we say this, otherwise if on FPR just standard call.
Chimble - your info was excellent -thanks.
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In Flight Conditions
Ok so yet another one that I'd like popular opinion on....On first contact with approach, reporting in flight conditions. ?? From memory, Jepp says it's optional. Does that mean if the weather conditions differ from the actual I might like to let them know? When would it not be erroneous to say "on top of broken"? 
On Guard
"Another question - What happens in AU if you are given a direct GPS track. When you change freq do you say "Centre XYZ FL250 direct XXXXX?" In NZ if we have been cleared direct we say this, otherwise if on FPR just standard call."
I fly direct GPS tracks regularly. When changing frequencies I just give them "Centre, XXX maintaining 9 thousand", for example. I have never been asked for any more. An eroute controller in here could give us the drum, but I think it is clear from my clearance and their software that I am on a direct track from A to B, even though A might be 562 (for example miles from B.
What I always find amusing though is when I drop off radar and then get re-identified - "XXX, Brisbane Centre, your identified 347 miles south east of (Destination)"
I would be curious to know if I am legal flightplanning direct tracks over long distances using GPS RNAV rather than following airways, but I have never been chatted for doing it.
Dr
"Another question - What happens in AU if you are given a direct GPS track. When you change freq do you say "Centre XYZ FL250 direct XXXXX?" In NZ if we have been cleared direct we say this, otherwise if on FPR just standard call."
I fly direct GPS tracks regularly. When changing frequencies I just give them "Centre, XXX maintaining 9 thousand", for example. I have never been asked for any more. An eroute controller in here could give us the drum, but I think it is clear from my clearance and their software that I am on a direct track from A to B, even though A might be 562 (for example miles from B.
What I always find amusing though is when I drop off radar and then get re-identified - "XXX, Brisbane Centre, your identified 347 miles south east of (Destination)"
I would be curious to know if I am legal flightplanning direct tracks over long distances using GPS RNAV rather than following airways, but I have never been chatted for doing it.
Dr
G-Limit,
I believe that the appropriate response is "IMC (or VMC)" fm AIP GEN 5.1.
I reckon the AIP phraseologies part needs a re-write - I've been reading it for over ten years and much to others dismay, I'm a culprit of saying "copied, no IFR traffic"... and I hate the sound of my own voice!
I believe that the appropriate response is "IMC (or VMC)" fm AIP GEN 5.1.
I reckon the AIP phraseologies part needs a re-write - I've been reading it for over ten years and much to others dismay, I'm a culprit of saying "copied, no IFR traffic"... and I hate the sound of my own voice!
Bottums Up
Monopole
One can't win with STARs. It's no uncommon to be told to expect star on a transfer, to call the next agency, to be told, "STAR clearance available".
Nor is it uncommon to be told to transfer without advice to expect STAR and to be given it straight up.
I guess from an ATCO's perspective they can't win either.
My usual course of action to try and avoid him/her telling me they've got what I expect is to say, "Melbourne/Brisbane Centre, ABC, FL370, Go Ahead/Ready to copy", as appropriate. Non standard I know, but saves much too-ing and fro-ing.
One can't win with STARs. It's no uncommon to be told to expect star on a transfer, to call the next agency, to be told, "STAR clearance available".
Nor is it uncommon to be told to transfer without advice to expect STAR and to be given it straight up.
I guess from an ATCO's perspective they can't win either.
My usual course of action to try and avoid him/her telling me they've got what I expect is to say, "Melbourne/Brisbane Centre, ABC, FL370, Go Ahead/Ready to copy", as appropriate. Non standard I know, but saves much too-ing and fro-ing.
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Capt Claret
Fair call. I do understand where you are coming from on this one
I usually what until 10nm before the transition point before I ask for a Star (which incidentally aslo isn't in the book) so as you said, you can't win.
What would the outcome be if ATC did not give you a star and you flew your clearence route eg; YXXX-MRW-PH and from MRW you flew DCT PH.
Does anybody have that reference I asked about in an earlier post. Cheers in advance
Fair call. I do understand where you are coming from on this one
I usually what until 10nm before the transition point before I ask for a Star (which incidentally aslo isn't in the book) so as you said, you can't win.
What would the outcome be if ATC did not give you a star and you flew your clearence route eg; YXXX-MRW-PH and from MRW you flew DCT PH.
Does anybody have that reference I asked about in an earlier post. Cheers in advance
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whilst we're on the topic of radio telephony.....
another question....
in class "C" airspace.... if you have been cleared for a "visual approach" do you still need to give a "left (height)" call to approach or tower freq (whichever you're on at the time)??
have heard opinions for both yes and no....
went searching in the jepp's but couldn't find a difinitive answer....
in class "C" airspace.... if you have been cleared for a "visual approach" do you still need to give a "left (height)" call to approach or tower freq (whichever you're on at the time)??
have heard opinions for both yes and no....
went searching in the jepp's but couldn't find a difinitive answer....
OK, so we've gone from on the first page of this thread ridiculing ANYTHING that is non-standard, to numerous examples of where it's OK to do this or that according to the individuals opinion...
FWIW, my thoughts:
No-one likes those endless, painful calls where someone repeats absolutely everything said, thus clogging up the frequency.
And even worse, private chit-chat of the type described earlier.
But people who get all upset and on their high-horse about one word here or there really need to find something worthwhile to worry about...
FWIW, my thoughts:
No-one likes those endless, painful calls where someone repeats absolutely everything said, thus clogging up the frequency.
And even worse, private chit-chat of the type described earlier.
But people who get all upset and on their high-horse about one word here or there really need to find something worthwhile to worry about...
Bottums Up
TNB
it depends upon the actual circumstances.
My interpretation would be that if you've been level at A035, and Approach clears you:
If still on descent to A035 when cleared for a visual approach with an instruction to call the Tower passing A035m the response would be, "Visual Approach, ABC" to Approach, and "XXX Tower, ABC" to Tower.
it depends upon the actual circumstances.
Originally Posted by Jepp AU-806, S 3.5.1.7
The pilot-in-command of an aircraft receiving an instruction to change level, must report:
- when the aircraft has left a level at which level flight has been conducted in the course of climb, cruise or descent; and
- when the aircraft leaves a level for which ATC has requested a report.
- make visual approach, call tower 118.3 leaving 3,500 then the response if delaying descent would be "Visual approach, 118.3".
- If commencing descent immediately it could be, "visual approach, 118.3, left 3,500" to Approach, followed by, "XXX Tower, ABC"; or "Visual Approach, 118.3" to Approach, and, "XXX Tower, ABC left 3,500" to Tower.
If still on descent to A035 when cleared for a visual approach with an instruction to call the Tower passing A035m the response would be, "Visual Approach, ABC" to Approach, and "XXX Tower, ABC" to Tower.