Stalling with passengers - NZ
Whether its legal or not, there is no reason for intentionally stalling an aeroplane with passengers on board.
It sounds like what you are planning is to take a group of mates out and 'show them what you can do in the plane'.
Remember, there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots.
But there a no old, bold pilots.
It sounds like what you are planning is to take a group of mates out and 'show them what you can do in the plane'.
Remember, there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots.
But there a no old, bold pilots.
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What you propose are non-standard and unnecessariliy hazardous maneuvers to intentionally perform with passengers aboard. Screw it up and you'll get a very clear opinion from the authorities on it assuming you survive.
Recommend you ask the following question of yourself whenever considering doing something non-standard:
"Is it still going to sound like a good idea when I'm explaining it to an Investigator, coroner, jury or the families of the dead?"
Make this another step towards becoming a truely professional pilot. Use good judgement and don't do it. It's a shame to see another flying career bluntly terminated by someone showing off.
"We found blood, guts, and feathers but no brains"
Recommend you ask the following question of yourself whenever considering doing something non-standard:
"Is it still going to sound like a good idea when I'm explaining it to an Investigator, coroner, jury or the families of the dead?"
Make this another step towards becoming a truely professional pilot. Use good judgement and don't do it. It's a shame to see another flying career bluntly terminated by someone showing off.
"We found blood, guts, and feathers but no brains"
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Dudduddud
How would you feel if you had no experience whatsoever as a pilot...no understanding of what the aircraft is capable of doing, and that for the first time as a passenger in a light aircraft, the pilot does a stall??? Dont think you would have been quite comfortable. Remember your first wingdrop???!!!
Why dont you take them for a nice scenic, start practicing some of your future skills as an airline pilot now..that is making the flight as comfortable as possible.
And the only thing that impresses pax nowadays are the landings...apart from those female Virgin/Pac blue Flight attendants!!!
The rest of the flight is well forgotten after those bad landings!!!!
Happy landings
How would you feel if you had no experience whatsoever as a pilot...no understanding of what the aircraft is capable of doing, and that for the first time as a passenger in a light aircraft, the pilot does a stall??? Dont think you would have been quite comfortable. Remember your first wingdrop???!!!
Why dont you take them for a nice scenic, start practicing some of your future skills as an airline pilot now..that is making the flight as comfortable as possible.
And the only thing that impresses pax nowadays are the landings...apart from those female Virgin/Pac blue Flight attendants!!!
The rest of the flight is well forgotten after those bad landings!!!!Happy landings
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StbdD - taking off is an unnecessariliy hazardous maneuver, but thousands get away with it every day.
there is so much more to aviation than an airline pilot.... not saying its a bad job, but alot of pilots go flying because they actually enjoy flying, not for a salary with 6 figures 
why should a pilot be scared of perfoming a standard flying sequence such as stalls, students are sent to practice them with less than 30 hours by themselves, they can't be that bad in a controlled enviroment ie hassell checks complete and greater than 3000ft
much to a lot of peoples suprise (media hype) planes don't plumet to the earth when stalled the dangerous bit is being to low when the unintentional stall occurs to effect a recovery
start practicing some of your future skills as an airline pilot now
why should a pilot be scared of perfoming a standard flying sequence such as stalls, students are sent to practice them with less than 30 hours by themselves, they can't be that bad in a controlled enviroment ie hassell checks complete and greater than 3000ft
much to a lot of peoples suprise (media hype) planes don't plumet to the earth when stalled
the dangerous bit is being to low when the unintentional stall occurs to effect a recovery
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StbdD - taking off is an unnecessariliy hazardous maneuver, but thousands get away with it every day
Oh..agree..greater world than just airline flying...didnt realise some had alot of money to fly for fun..dammit!!
Anyway Dudduddud...do whatever you feel is right.
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For christ's sake, we are only talking about STALLS here, in a single piston training aircraft. Woop de doo. They are an entirely benign training manouevre, that is no more dangerous in any post-1960s training aircraft than medium turns or circuits. Anyone who's less than comfortable doing them and recovering from them shouldn't hold a licence in the first place. Personally I think there's about 100000% LESS chance of a responsible PPL coming to grief if they're just out doing manouevres in the training area than if they're stooging off on a big cross country in an average-weather day.
And another thing, whether there's pax on board or not shouldn't make a blind bit of difference to an instructor's decision whether to sign someone out - if I made the wrong call I'd feel just as culpable whether it was one or two person's blood on my hands.
And another thing, whether there's pax on board or not shouldn't make a blind bit of difference to an instructor's decision whether to sign someone out - if I made the wrong call I'd feel just as culpable whether it was one or two person's blood on my hands.
(except for showing off the performance envelope of the aircraft to the mates of the pilot).
Famous Last Words - "Hey, watch this!"
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Oh...i think i must have missed the point. Anyway...didnt realise it was to do with the pilot...sorry dudduddud..I thought you wanted to know whether it was a good idea to do it with passengers..in other words what the passengers would think or feel while in the back.
We all can stall..i mean..damn..can spin as well....just havent done it with pax though...doubt they would appreciate it. But if they are up for it...just like many others have said...no reason why not.
Have fun.
We all can stall..i mean..damn..can spin as well....just havent done it with pax though...doubt they would appreciate it. But if they are up for it...just like many others have said...no reason why not.
Have fun.
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there may well be a reason why not...most light aircraft require the aircraft to be in the utility category...and so that means no passengers in the rear seats...however if you are talking about having a passenger in the front seat then there is no reason why not...nor is there any good reason to do it with a passenger...so lets grow up and act responsibly.we all know how to do things with planes that would make the average slightly nervous person want to get back on the ground...but the average responsible pilot just does'nt put a member of the public in that position.
so dudduddudd...you have the choice...to be a pilot or a showman..need time to think about it..?? ..i do'nt think so.
fly safe..
the dean
so dudduddudd...you have the choice...to be a pilot or a showman..need time to think about it..??
..i do'nt think so.fly safe..
the dean
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Thanks for your imput!
Perhaps I should have been clear from the start. Where I work there's a guy who's just started out with a digital video company that puts clips up on websites. His last video expedition involved hanging out of a helicopter filming some bike race. Then we got onto the topic of flying and said he'd like to make a short film themed 'how to fly an aeroplane' to sorta showcase his video editing skills.
Now I know that stalling et al doesn't really come under the heading of 'flying' (it comes more under the heading of 'falling') but I was just wondering what was available to us.
Upon reflection however, I have decided to keep it nice and simple. T/O, couple of turns and back to base for a landing. Covers start, pre takeoff, t/o climbing and decending, turns s/l and coming back in. and radio.
Cheers!
Perhaps I should have been clear from the start. Where I work there's a guy who's just started out with a digital video company that puts clips up on websites. His last video expedition involved hanging out of a helicopter filming some bike race. Then we got onto the topic of flying and said he'd like to make a short film themed 'how to fly an aeroplane' to sorta showcase his video editing skills.
Now I know that stalling et al doesn't really come under the heading of 'flying' (it comes more under the heading of 'falling') but I was just wondering what was available to us.
Upon reflection however, I have decided to keep it nice and simple. T/O, couple of turns and back to base for a landing. Covers start, pre takeoff, t/o climbing and decending, turns s/l and coming back in. and radio.
Cheers!
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ok...now all you have to worry about ( and this does'nt even take account of whether you are an instructor or not ) is insurance against a claim in case someone gets injured and says they followed your video instruction.....!!!
how many aircraft do you know that have crashed whilst doing an intentional stall above 3000ft when the c of g is within limits passenger or no passenger
I might add a that a 172 fully loaded with the C of G at it's aft limit wouldn't be too much fun either.
I doubt that anyone here has ever conducted stalls with the aircraft that they normally fly loaded in such a manner. It's different.
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This has got to be a wind up hasn't it
Are you seriously considering practicing stalls with pax on board ?
Are you seriously considering practicing stalls with pax on board ?
Example - my old man has always taken a keen interest in my flying career, quite rightly since he paid for a good part of the first few hours of it I guess. He was the first person I ever took up in the old C152 after I got my PPL, and yes I did stalls and turns and most of the other training manouevres at various stages with him on board, all fair and square and safe and legal. I recall that as a non pilot he found it really interesting to see some of this stuff and what actually happens when you fly the aircraft too slowly - i.e. contrary to popular belief it doesn't fall out of the sky in a screaming heap, it just gently nods its head downwards and buffets a bit. The point is, I was so proud with my little 50 hours to actually be able to take the old fella flying and show him what I had learned and what I could do, and he had a great old time as well, as I recall.
A few years later I was lucky enough to get him up the front of a J31 on an empty sector and show him a little bit of what I do for a living, but one of the things that's going to gut me - and him - for the rest of our respective lives, is that thanks to Osama and the boys I can never even get him a jumpseat landing on the airbus I drive now.
Did none of you lot ever do something similar at some stage in your flying youth, am I a bit weird for having enjoyed that day's flying or something? Are you all actually so stupid as to think that cross country straight and level is somehow intrinsically a 'safer' or 'better' thing to do than PPL-syllabus manouevres at altitude? Can anyone provide statistical evidence to that effect, or are you all just talking out your @rses? Do I too deserve a pprune bollocking from all you PPL hotshots for putting all those lives at risk by - shock horror - doing something as crazy and reckless as a goddam BASIC STALL at 3000 feet in a C152, with my dad as an interested observer?
dududud why don't you actually go talk to one of the B cats at your school and explain what you want to do, which sounds like a perfectly reasonable project to me. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to sign you out (with the usual flying school proviso of course that if you haven't done any recent dual practice on said manouevres they might need to go check you out themselves first).
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My first flight in a light plane was in a J-3 Cub at a summer fair in New York. For some small (kid-affordable) charge I got a blast around the town -- probably six or eight minutes. I was 10 or 11 years old.
The pilot stalled her. I had no idea what was happening at the time, but I remember the power coming off, the pitch up, and the little fall back to controlled flight.
It scared me at the moment -- the Cub had no intercom and I could not really talk to the pilot behind me -- and I must have grabbed something because the pilot tapped my shoulder and gave me a thumbs-up to let me know all was okay.
And that made me understand something about the control that the pilot had over the airplane, and that he understood things about flight that I didn't. He could make it do things that seemed dangerous to the uninitiated, but were in fact no problem. It was part of the reason I decided to earn my own PPL 15 years later.
So, with the right passenger, and done correctly, a stall can have a positive effect.
(Let the comments about whether having Crosshair zooming about in a lightie is a "positive effect" or not begin!)
The pilot stalled her. I had no idea what was happening at the time, but I remember the power coming off, the pitch up, and the little fall back to controlled flight.
It scared me at the moment -- the Cub had no intercom and I could not really talk to the pilot behind me -- and I must have grabbed something because the pilot tapped my shoulder and gave me a thumbs-up to let me know all was okay.
And that made me understand something about the control that the pilot had over the airplane, and that he understood things about flight that I didn't. He could make it do things that seemed dangerous to the uninitiated, but were in fact no problem. It was part of the reason I decided to earn my own PPL 15 years later.
So, with the right passenger, and done correctly, a stall can have a positive effect.
(Let the comments about whether having Crosshair zooming about in a lightie is a "positive effect" or not begin!)
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good one milkbottle,
then you could unintentionally botch the recovery, then unintentionally drill a hole into the ground and the unintentionally make the font page of the newspaper!!
cheers
Johnny
Yeah Johnny only if you're a
muppet
then you could unintentionally botch the recovery, then unintentionally drill a hole into the ground and the unintentionally make the font page of the newspaper!!
cheers
Johnny
Yeah Johnny only if you're a
muppet
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There is nothing wrong with showing an interested passenger a stall at 3,000 or above. Bizzarely, many passengers in little aeroplanes are there because they are curious about flight and its envelope. When did stalling become such a feared event? I certainly showed my dad a straight & level stall on his first flight with me, quite legally and perfectly safely. He enjoyed it so much that we moved onto some rolls (and yes, in an aerobatic machine with an aeros endorsement...). If the passenger is keen, and the pilot is qualified, there should be no issue.