Fuel NOTAMS
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Fuel NOTAMS
Can anyone explain why Airservices Australia will not publish a NOTAM for the non-availability of fuel?
Recently had to close our AVGAS supply due to contaminants that were in the system. There were minute particles that were picked up in final filtration however QC policies dictated that the fuel agent had to stop putting it into aircraft immediately until the parent compay carried out remedial actions and gave the all clear.
It is mostly charter operators who were affected and we managed to contact the main ones to advise the situation. However there were still the odd itinerate pvt and chtr aircraft flying through who would have had no way of knowing unless they phoned ahead.
Appreciate others thoughts on the matter. Most pilots coming through that I spoke to cannot understand AsA's stance either.
Recently had to close our AVGAS supply due to contaminants that were in the system. There were minute particles that were picked up in final filtration however QC policies dictated that the fuel agent had to stop putting it into aircraft immediately until the parent compay carried out remedial actions and gave the all clear.
It is mostly charter operators who were affected and we managed to contact the main ones to advise the situation. However there were still the odd itinerate pvt and chtr aircraft flying through who would have had no way of knowing unless they phoned ahead.
Appreciate others thoughts on the matter. Most pilots coming through that I spoke to cannot understand AsA's stance either.
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Fuel NOTAMS
I think it may be splitting hairs. I don't believe that they will accept a NOTAM for fuel but they will accept a NOTAM that modifies operational information; eg, amending the REPLEN section of ERSA for a specified period. I have previously submitted NOTAM that amend either fuel type availability or refuelling hours.
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Well they bloody well should.
I did a weekend warrior flight recently and found that the the state of the fuel delivery at Kingaroy had changed.
It was still available but not the bowser, I still had enough plus reserves to get home, but gee it made me take a really good hard look at the amount I still had.
I would hate to think how many times people have been caught out though!
J
I did a weekend warrior flight recently and found that the the state of the fuel delivery at Kingaroy had changed.
It was still available but not the bowser, I still had enough plus reserves to get home, but gee it made me take a really good hard look at the amount I still had.
I would hate to think how many times people have been caught out though!
J
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Barry,
We just put the NOTAM in as "Avgas not avail DTG - DTG". I don't know that expanding it as a mod under the replen section of our ERSA listing would have helped. This is a licenced, security controlled aerodrome that is serviced more than 90% by RPT and Chtr. If the Jet A1 suffered the same fate we can quickly notify the RPT and regular charter guys that require it but there are still those thad drop in once in a blue moon without notice.
When the ASA guy rang me back and I will point out that he was very sympathetic about it, he just said that fuel was not considered one of those "operational items" that were able to be reported by NOTAM.
We just put the NOTAM in as "Avgas not avail DTG - DTG". I don't know that expanding it as a mod under the replen section of our ERSA listing would have helped. This is a licenced, security controlled aerodrome that is serviced more than 90% by RPT and Chtr. If the Jet A1 suffered the same fate we can quickly notify the RPT and regular charter guys that require it but there are still those thad drop in once in a blue moon without notice.
When the ASA guy rang me back and I will point out that he was very sympathetic about it, he just said that fuel was not considered one of those "operational items" that were able to be reported by NOTAM.
Last edited by Islander Jock; 2nd Mar 2007 at 02:28.
So let us in on the secret. Where is this fuel problem?
Whilst a NOTAM would be nice any pilot worth his salt should ring ahead if he is RELYING on fuel to be available at a particular point. Just good flight planning (or poor planning if you dont).
Whilst a NOTAM would be nice any pilot worth his salt should ring ahead if he is RELYING on fuel to be available at a particular point. Just good flight planning (or poor planning if you dont).
Bentleg,
I agree with you. It is amazing how many pilots come through here at CV and automatically assume all will be ok.
We would alway try to get the word out if there was an interruption to supply.
I would have thought that the Notam was the way to do it.
We have notified Centre in the past, when there has been a problem.
The trouble is getting the message out that the fuel is back on most times.
185.
I agree with you. It is amazing how many pilots come through here at CV and automatically assume all will be ok.
We would alway try to get the word out if there was an interruption to supply.
I would have thought that the Notam was the way to do it.
We have notified Centre in the past, when there has been a problem.
The trouble is getting the message out that the fuel is back on most times.
185.
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Hold on a minute...
so AsA says it's not an
...
but, you need fuel to keep the engines 'operating', I'd sure call that an 'operational item'!
Yes you should call ahead if you 100% definitely need that fuel to continue safely, but how about someone who like has been said, only drops by once in a blue moon and thinks, "Oh, it's XX airport, it's pretty busy, they'll definitely have it'...
IJ, I'm pretty sure I know which airport you're talking about, no fuel NOTAM just does not make any sort of sense at all!!
so AsA says it's not an
operational item
but, you need fuel to keep the engines 'operating', I'd sure call that an 'operational item'!
Yes you should call ahead if you 100% definitely need that fuel to continue safely, but how about someone who like has been said, only drops by once in a blue moon and thinks, "Oh, it's XX airport, it's pretty busy, they'll definitely have it'...
IJ, I'm pretty sure I know which airport you're talking about, no fuel NOTAM just does not make any sort of sense at all!!
What a strange world...
New Guinea is an ICAO member state and HAS fuel notam. One only has to go to area 44 (cairns) and read
DARU (AYDU) AVGAS NOT AVBL.....
Are our aeronautical services worse than PNG or what!
DJDAVE
New Guinea is an ICAO member state and HAS fuel notam. One only has to go to area 44 (cairns) and read
DARU (AYDU) AVGAS NOT AVBL.....
Are our aeronautical services worse than PNG or what!
DJDAVE
They don't seem to have a general problem with fuel NOTAMs. This is for Curtin:
CURTIN (YCIN)
C4/07
AVTUR SUPPLIES LTD
FOR INFO CTC
RAAF BASE CURTIN TEL 08 9193 9719
FROM 02 260108 TO 03 120300 EST
C5/07
TWY WIP
LINE MARKING
FROM 02 260251 TO 03 300100
I have also seen YCIN NOTAMed as having no AVTUR.
CURTIN (YCIN)
C4/07
AVTUR SUPPLIES LTD
FOR INFO CTC
RAAF BASE CURTIN TEL 08 9193 9719
FROM 02 260108 TO 03 120300 EST
C5/07
TWY WIP
LINE MARKING
FROM 02 260251 TO 03 300100
I have also seen YCIN NOTAMed as having no AVTUR.
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hmmm... I wonder if that would have more to do with the fact that Curtin is a military base... that NOTAM could mean that Avtur supplies are limited for the civil users upon that base who may have an expectation of a fuel-uplift being available. a NOTAM like that would be little more than a 'courtesy' by the base logistics system via the commander
Yes it is a (very rarely used*) Air Force base. The NOTAMs are still put out by Air Services though as far as I know.
Perhaps ASA put out avtur NOTAMs but not Avgas NOTAMs?
*It hasn't had a TAF service for the past 6 months or so, though I note that that has just changed, perhaps due to Ozjet.
Perhaps ASA put out avtur NOTAMs but not Avgas NOTAMs?
*It hasn't had a TAF service for the past 6 months or so, though I note that that has just changed, perhaps due to Ozjet.
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A number of years ago I was involved in Glider towing ops and our avgas supplies were due to be replenished, however the tanker had been delayed so we attempted to have a notam issued saying that avgas was not available UFN.
As Islander Jock discovered, AsA declined to issue the notam and when I queried this we were informed that 'any pilot considering a flight where en-route refuelling may be required has the reponsibility of ensuring that fuel is available at these places prior to departure from the starting point.' (The exact words used if memory serves correctly)
Not sure now as it was too many years ago but I seem to remember that something similar to the above quote was printed in the old VFG.
As Islander Jock discovered, AsA declined to issue the notam and when I queried this we were informed that 'any pilot considering a flight where en-route refuelling may be required has the reponsibility of ensuring that fuel is available at these places prior to departure from the starting point.' (The exact words used if memory serves correctly)
Not sure now as it was too many years ago but I seem to remember that something similar to the above quote was printed in the old VFG.
Last edited by Pinky the pilot; 3rd Mar 2007 at 08:22. Reason: Finger trouble; transposition fo letters
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Oh great, so now not only do i have to check that the airstrip is servicable, but also find out if fuel is still available! 
Don't pilots have enough to do already preparing for a flight?
Seriously though, It annoys me when things have to be done the hard way, with no gain in safety or effiency.
Cheers,
Tiger.
Don't pilots have enough to do already preparing for a flight?
Seriously though, It annoys me when things have to be done the hard way, with no gain in safety or effiency.
Cheers,
Tiger.
In my opinion, where the ERSA says that fuel is available then ASA has an obligation to advise when fuel is not available.
By checking the ERSA prior to flight I believe I am fulfilling my obligation to check whether fuel is available!
By checking the ERSA prior to flight I believe I am fulfilling my obligation to check whether fuel is available!
