Flight Schools Australia
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Chief,
Going on the 24th of march (public day) its should be a blast! Im not that high up the food chain to get anything else, although i've been bugging my boss for passes to the corporate marquee (Vic State Gov) but he cant even get one for himself
. (He is a level 5, one step below executive) all the corp. passes went to exects..........
Going on the 24th of march (public day) its should be a blast! Im not that high up the food chain to get anything else, although i've been bugging my boss for passes to the corporate marquee (Vic State Gov) but he cant even get one for himself
. (He is a level 5, one step below executive) all the corp. passes went to exects..........
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Chieftain & CP Adi
Cheiftain
I agree with CP Adi, perhaps a little harsh to judge so quickly based on one statement...no offence mate...however, I can see where you're coming from and why you've drawn those conclusions. If you want to discuss this further then I'm prepared to do so over a beer at Avalon, along with any other ppruners who happen to be there
CP Adi
I just read your first statement...no flying establishment pleases everybody, at any level in the industry. However, based on your comments, I believe Chieftain is on to something here.
I'm not saying that you're wrong about anything, and it's unfortunate that you found the Instructors unfriendly/unprofessional. If it's true they are neglecting potential and current Students, they are fools and will suffer in the long run because ultimately the Students provide these Instructors with jobs in terms of money and flying hours on which to build their careers.
But with regards to grubby looking GA aircraft, answering phones, cleaning aircraft, recently qualified instructors, study etc etc etc....welcome to the real world. You may not like it, it may not be fair, but that's generally how it is and there are many reasons for it. We've all done it except possibly for Airline cadets, so consider it a rite-of-passage to your career...but whether you like it or not, that's often how it is.
I'm also sure Chieftain's opinions about the establishment in question would be no different if he had struggled to get that first elusive job.
Having said all that, I sincerely wish you the best of luck either way, but if you intend to pursue a career in aviation then it might be time for a reality check....
LM
PS CP Adi - You appear to be missing a few keys on your keyboard
I agree with CP Adi, perhaps a little harsh to judge so quickly based on one statement...no offence mate...however, I can see where you're coming from and why you've drawn those conclusions. If you want to discuss this further then I'm prepared to do so over a beer at Avalon, along with any other ppruners who happen to be there
CP Adi
I just read your first statement...no flying establishment pleases everybody, at any level in the industry. However, based on your comments, I believe Chieftain is on to something here.
I'm not saying that you're wrong about anything, and it's unfortunate that you found the Instructors unfriendly/unprofessional. If it's true they are neglecting potential and current Students, they are fools and will suffer in the long run because ultimately the Students provide these Instructors with jobs in terms of money and flying hours on which to build their careers.
But with regards to grubby looking GA aircraft, answering phones, cleaning aircraft, recently qualified instructors, study etc etc etc....welcome to the real world. You may not like it, it may not be fair, but that's generally how it is and there are many reasons for it. We've all done it except possibly for Airline cadets, so consider it a rite-of-passage to your career...but whether you like it or not, that's often how it is.
I'm also sure Chieftain's opinions about the establishment in question would be no different if he had struggled to get that first elusive job.
Having said all that, I sincerely wish you the best of luck either way, but if you intend to pursue a career in aviation then it might be time for a reality check....
LM
PS CP Adi - You appear to be missing a few keys on your keyboard
Last edited by Launchpad McQuack; 3rd Mar 2007 at 10:45.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Judging by the way you mentioned TVSA Melbourne , Australia
id assume your not from Australia , so if our flying schools aren't up to your standards why don't you pack your bags and
off . You sound like someone i know who could not fly a kite then just quit his CPL training when he was nearly done. . counted his losses so to speak then bitched and moaned about the flying school and the instructors , who are now flying for airlines and the school is still pumping out high standard LT pilots .
id assume your not from Australia , so if our flying schools aren't up to your standards why don't you pack your bags and
off . You sound like someone i know who could not fly a kite then just quit his CPL training when he was nearly done. . counted his losses so to speak then bitched and moaned about the flying school and the instructors , who are now flying for airlines and the school is still pumping out high standard LT pilots .
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aircabbie
...I'm assuming your suggestions are aimed at CP Adi?!
Also, off the subject....Jnr380, which way are you going now? IF or Instructor??
Also, off the subject....Jnr380, which way are you going now? IF or Instructor??
Last edited by Launchpad McQuack; 3rd Mar 2007 at 10:56.
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No Shilpa ( person who made original post )
CP whatever his name needs to learn to spell , before he starts shooting his mouth on a network where everyone can see his spollin misaksees !!
cheers
CP whatever his name needs to learn to spell , before he starts shooting his mouth on a network where everyone can see his spollin misaksees !!
cheers
Last edited by aircabbie; 3rd Mar 2007 at 12:15.
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It's a bit off the topic but what are you guys paying for a cpl and mecir these days 45 to 60 grand for a ppl seems pretty steep
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Crappy looking aircraft is to be expected at every flying school
Rather than say the students are customers, it would be more honest to say students are treated as suckers at certain flying training establishments. . Otherwise why accept without question the rip-offs in the industry?
Daggy aircraft expected? There is no excuse for that. Why expect low class service? If "customers" pay hard earned dollars to have dual instruction then they should demand a clean well serviced aircraft with an experienced flying instructor - not a 250 hour wonder.
If a customer hires a self drive car from a reputable firm he certainly would not be expected be responsible for doing errands and answering the phones and clean the firms cars as part of the hiring cost. Not so in the GA industry. The trouble is that new students in the flying training industry are brought up to expect mediocracy because this is the aviation culture in Australia.
As far as CASA being interested in a daggy aircraft. You must be kidding. Have you ever seen a CASA FOI actually inspecting a flying school aircraft? - let alone sitting in one or even flying it to see what hidden defects exist. CASA could not care less how badly maintained or how daggy a Cessna or Warrior is as long as the Ops Manual paperwork is ticked in the right boxes. Knocking flying schools is like knocking Qantas - it all depends on how individuals have enjoyed the experience or not.
then they should demand a clean well serviced aircraft with an experienced flying instructor - not a 250 hour wonder
All that'd happen is that you'd have even less instructors than you do now.
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Sorry guys off the topic again:
LaunchPad, I have decided to do my Instructor as its quicker and basically guaranteed work as compared to doing my MECIR. so it should be good and it will be a great change to move from melbourne, and i hope if im lucky enough i can get a job where they'll pay for my instructor rating (fat chance).
LaunchPad, I have decided to do my Instructor as its quicker and basically guaranteed work as compared to doing my MECIR. so it should be good and it will be a great change to move from melbourne, and i hope if im lucky enough i can get a job where they'll pay for my instructor rating (fat chance).
Join Date: Aug 2004
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What is it the average age of an aircraft in GA is 30 years. What do you expect a 30 year old car to look like. i've got one sitting out in front of me at the moment and i'm supprised its even on wheels. whats the average age of most hire cars 1 yr. so you expect flying schools should go out every year and replace there obviously aging fleet. Time to go out into the industry Tee Emm. Students mostly pay for hours not aircraft and comfort because they want hours cheap, charter passangers on the other hand do pay for aircraft and comfort, so what schools try to do is teach the student that when he gets his cpl and starts charter, to look after and clean the aircraft. In this case where the student is obviously doing a full coarse if the aircraft isn't clean in my opinon thats the students fault. As for looking grubby outside of being unclean, those aircraft have have what 16 different people per day sliding in and out of them (most are only are only learning how to handle them) for 30 yrs use your imagination on what they should look like and I bet your imagination should think of something worse than what the plane actualy looks like now.
Again I didn't go to this have never seen there aircraft so i'm only speaking generaly and for myself
Again I didn't go to this have never seen there aircraft so i'm only speaking generaly and for myself
Last edited by pilotads; 3rd Mar 2007 at 22:14.
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"Posting for a mate here, but I am told on good authority that 'tealady' runs (or used to run) TVSA, and 'Chieftan' is (or used to) be a senior instructor there. For all those out there that werent aware of this, their comments may need to be taken with a grain of salt..."
IMNSHO CaptainToBe, tealady and Chieftan have every right to defend TVSA from the defamatory postings made on this forum. I thought that by the tenor of their posts that it was pretty clear that they both had a personal involvement in TVSA.
However, I speak as someone who has never had any direct involvement with TVSA, but has flown privately from Moorabbin for many years, had personal involvement with a couple of flying schools and the RVAC, has seen TVSA aircraft around the traps, and have heard a mixture of reports (on the grapevine) about them, just as I have with every flying school at Moorabbin. These reports have been glowing, "ordinary", and all points between.
I do think that it is relevant that over the years TVSA have trained hundreds (perhaps thousands) of pilots, many of whom have gone onto good careers within the aviation industry, and what do we have here......one complaint. I think that speaks for itself.
IMNSHO CaptainToBe, tealady and Chieftan have every right to defend TVSA from the defamatory postings made on this forum. I thought that by the tenor of their posts that it was pretty clear that they both had a personal involvement in TVSA.
However, I speak as someone who has never had any direct involvement with TVSA, but has flown privately from Moorabbin for many years, had personal involvement with a couple of flying schools and the RVAC, has seen TVSA aircraft around the traps, and have heard a mixture of reports (on the grapevine) about them, just as I have with every flying school at Moorabbin. These reports have been glowing, "ordinary", and all points between.
I do think that it is relevant that over the years TVSA have trained hundreds (perhaps thousands) of pilots, many of whom have gone onto good careers within the aviation industry, and what do we have here......one complaint. I think that speaks for itself.
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TVSA.
I am Indian and their name has already reached here. TEALADY whose name is Wendy whose coarse language is insulting. The daughter One Strike, Two Strike, MEL was supposed to go to QANTAS I guess they heard about her airforce career and Peter the blue collar worker now owns TVSA. I believe his claim to fame is to s****w as many people as possible.
They have given Australian Flying Schools a bad name.
They have given Australian Flying Schools a bad name.
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I was at tvsa for a while and not only were they extremely insulting but very unprofessional. They strung me along with my training getting me to pay for unecessary hours. They will use any excuse imaginable to delay your progress, getting you to fly when not needed. The tealady (wendy dow), has extreme issues and tries also to scam more money through the accomodation side that she "runs". It is a joke! She is always relying on indian contracts to fund their dodgy business. They promise them their licence, then threaten to take their visas when they get there if they don't pay more money. It's no wonder there are hardly any aussie students there, its because they all know their dodgy practices. Students are accused of things that they didn't do, and bossed around to make them feel bullied and pressured. The instructing is a joke as all students are scared to fly becasue they are always being put down. They will rob you of your love for flying and also the money you planned on using to get there. But otherwise a great school!
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Market Econony 101
No matter what some dodgy so-called business people may want you to believe, if you are shelling our money, you are the customer and you can expect courteous, professional service and at least industry standard material and standards.
To the contributor above, you should know better comparing cars and planes.. which car gets a new engine every couple of thousand hours or less, plus all the other LAME attention CASA requires for the thing that keeps you in the air? And which thirty year old car can you refurbish internally for a five figure sum and make look like new? And how come some schools charging not above average for instruction have Garmin 430s and such installed, and are still making money for their owners, plus paying instructors award or above?
I am now training with a school offering all of the above, having switched from a dodgy (yet very established) YMMB business stringing me along to milk me for more hours with their lacking staff.. go figure!
To the contributor above, you should know better comparing cars and planes.. which car gets a new engine every couple of thousand hours or less, plus all the other LAME attention CASA requires for the thing that keeps you in the air? And which thirty year old car can you refurbish internally for a five figure sum and make look like new? And how come some schools charging not above average for instruction have Garmin 430s and such installed, and are still making money for their owners, plus paying instructors award or above?
I am now training with a school offering all of the above, having switched from a dodgy (yet very established) YMMB business stringing me along to milk me for more hours with their lacking staff.. go figure!
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correction
..sorry, above it should read "four figure sum" for the internal refurbishment (non-avionics of course ), was a bit late last night..
..and washing planes, sweeping floors and answering phones as a matter of course at your school? You must be fing kidding!! You're a paying customer, for heaven's sake! Now of course I am not saying don't be nice and offer to help out every now and again, but of course you're trading your time and effort for a job in the near future at the organisation, don't blur that customer/employee border too much..
), was a bit late last night....and washing planes, sweeping floors and answering phones as a matter of course at your school? You must be f
ing kidding!! You're a paying customer, for heaven's sake! Now of course I am not saying don't be nice and offer to help out every now and again, but of course you're trading your time and effort for a job in the near future at the organisation, don't blur that customer/employee border too much..
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Negative sentiments can be levelled at just about every FTO by someone or the other. There is always going to be clashes of personality or expectations. I've flown with nine schools since 1985: GroupAir, TVSA, Coldstream Flying School, Schutts, GFS, MFS, Binis, Tooradin (one flight) and now Lilydale.
I found good and bad in each one, but tend to agree with the sentiments here about TVSA. As far as quality and professionalism go, it's hard to go past the old Binis (not flown with them since the takeover), but for interest, encouragement and personal interaction, it would be a draw between Groupair and Lilydale.
No doubt, there are people out there who would disagree with my assessment, which tends to prove my point.
For a group that has been in existence for such a short time, there are some very good things being said about MFT.
Walrus
I found good and bad in each one, but tend to agree with the sentiments here about TVSA. As far as quality and professionalism go, it's hard to go past the old Binis (not flown with them since the takeover), but for interest, encouragement and personal interaction, it would be a draw between Groupair and Lilydale.
No doubt, there are people out there who would disagree with my assessment, which tends to prove my point.
For a group that has been in existence for such a short time, there are some very good things being said about MFT.
Walrus