Crosswind competency before or after the first solo - your comments.
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Good stuff
We need more Wombats around here.
We need his wisdom, and we need more people to follow his example of encouraging and acknowledging effort.
I agree with the idea of minimising risks and stress for first solo. I still remember my own first solo, all those years ago. I remember being told to do one circuit, and that I would only have to pay for one circuit, so not to worry if I was not happy on approach- just go around and have another go.
I landed off the first approach. (In a 90 hp Piper cub, at Omaka in 1957)
We need his wisdom, and we need more people to follow his example of encouraging and acknowledging effort.
I agree with the idea of minimising risks and stress for first solo. I still remember my own first solo, all those years ago. I remember being told to do one circuit, and that I would only have to pay for one circuit, so not to worry if I was not happy on approach- just go around and have another go.
I landed off the first approach. (In a 90 hp Piper cub, at Omaka in 1957)
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Wombat & NNB,
Thanks for the kind words, the encouragement and the welcome! World of joy 'n' frustration is right; I reckon I know it pretty well already! I get pretty pissed with myself if I get things wrong and often do! I'm probably a bit anally retentive and I've still got a loooong way to go, but as all solo studes would know, now at least I BELIEVE I can do it!
But back to thread topic - being a lowly stude I can only talk in my case re. solos and x-winds, - I'd agree with Wombat in saying reduce the variables for us duffers! Just to manage solo in perfect conditions does wonders for the self-confidence and probably puts you in a more positive state of mind for those more difficult landings.
Thanks for the kind words, the encouragement and the welcome! World of joy 'n' frustration is right; I reckon I know it pretty well already! I get pretty pissed with myself if I get things wrong and often do! I'm probably a bit anally retentive and I've still got a loooong way to go, but as all solo studes would know, now at least I BELIEVE I can do it!
But back to thread topic - being a lowly stude I can only talk in my case re. solos and x-winds, - I'd agree with Wombat in saying reduce the variables for us duffers! Just to manage solo in perfect conditions does wonders for the self-confidence and probably puts you in a more positive state of mind for those more difficult landings.
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As soon as I got into circuits months ago the winds always seemed to pick up, so I got a fairly decent amount of crosswind practice before my first solo.
My first 3 solos sessions were all pretty much in perfect conditions and it 'twas not until my 4th go at soloing that I actually got to have some fun with a crosswind, 14 knots of it mind you. Didn't feel like it though, but thanks to all those previous hours of dual crosswind circuits I knew exactly how to handle it.
So in my opinion I say it's beneficial before a first solo, just incase a breeze comes along just as they've taken off...
My first 3 solos sessions were all pretty much in perfect conditions and it 'twas not until my 4th go at soloing that I actually got to have some fun with a crosswind, 14 knots of it mind you. Didn't feel like it though, but thanks to all those previous hours of dual crosswind circuits I knew exactly how to handle it.
So in my opinion I say it's beneficial before a first solo, just incase a breeze comes along just as they've taken off...
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For anyone else who's reading this who is soon to go solo, stay focused, do everything as you did before (talking out loud through all your tasks like you may do with your FI proves to be very calming), try to forget he's not sitting alongside you...but not everything else you're supposed to do. 
Happy Soloing!
Happy Soloing!
Thanks for an informative, much needed thread.
Cheers.
RR
As an instructor, i'd much rather have my student gain some xwind experience.
No matter how much experience you as an instructor may have, you can't always predict if the wind is going to pickup rapidly, and the very worst case scenario is a first solo student stuck up there, panicking.
No matter how much experience you as an instructor may have, you can't always predict if the wind is going to pickup rapidly, and the very worst case scenario is a first solo student stuck up there, panicking.
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I went first solo last year on the 20th Aug. there was a crosswind. i had never experienced it before let alone be taught how to fly a crosswind final. I flew with the CFI and he taught me Crosswinds in 4 Circuits and then sent me solo! and im glad he did too because it was the easiest way i could have learn't.
i guess at the end of the day it is up to the instructor as to whether he thinks the student can handle it, the weather (obviously its stupid if there is 10kts straight across!) and the student himself whether he feels confident. it also depends how good of a teacher the instructor is. in my case one of the best! so i guess its the instructors confidence in himself aswell! ofcourse he wouldn't have sent me if he didn't think I was able
and it was a steady non gusty crosswind of about 4 - 5 kts.
at a place like Ardmore you need to learn crosswinds fast as the weather changes so quickly.
i guess at the end of the day it is up to the instructor as to whether he thinks the student can handle it, the weather (obviously its stupid if there is 10kts straight across!) and the student himself whether he feels confident. it also depends how good of a teacher the instructor is. in my case one of the best! so i guess its the instructors confidence in himself aswell! ofcourse he wouldn't have sent me if he didn't think I was able
and it was a steady non gusty crosswind of about 4 - 5 kts.
at a place like Ardmore you need to learn crosswinds fast as the weather changes so quickly.
Last edited by jblpilot152; 10th Jan 2007 at 21:30.
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It was long ago, but I recall that in my initial training, because of local conditions, we all 'happened' upon cross-wind landings. It wasn't planned that way, but when a x/w situation appeared, we had it pointed out to us what was happening to the a/c, its cause and the remedial action we should take. This was all within the pre-solo stage of our training.
So it came as little surprise to me when my instructor one day after a full stop landing said "OK, your turn to do it on your own", and vacated the cockpit. I do recall that the following take-off, circuit and landing seemed the longest in my career.
As far as "not getting it quite right", that is possibly the best form of instruction that there is. Once you get good at this flying stuff, you start to get a little cocky, until, one day, something bites you when you're least expecting it.
As far as teaching x/w before first solo, horses for courses. Some ab initios handle it well, while others don't. It's a good instructor who can read the signs in the student and instruct accordingly.
But, at least in principle, I agree that instructors should remove as many of the variables as possible leading up to that all-important first solo. Sometimes, though, x/w is a variable that cannot easily be removed.
So it came as little surprise to me when my instructor one day after a full stop landing said "OK, your turn to do it on your own", and vacated the cockpit. I do recall that the following take-off, circuit and landing seemed the longest in my career.
As far as "not getting it quite right", that is possibly the best form of instruction that there is. Once you get good at this flying stuff, you start to get a little cocky, until, one day, something bites you when you're least expecting it.
As far as teaching x/w before first solo, horses for courses. Some ab initios handle it well, while others don't. It's a good instructor who can read the signs in the student and instruct accordingly.
But, at least in principle, I agree that instructors should remove as many of the variables as possible leading up to that all-important first solo. Sometimes, though, x/w is a variable that cannot easily be removed.
If there's one thing that takes more time than anything else for students to come to grips with, it's landing the aeroplane.
I've never been all that interested in making sure that a student is competent with the crosswind landing technique before their first solo, because as I said above they're already having a tough enough time of simply getting the machine back on the ground in a manner that they're satisfied with.
Introducing crosswind landings at this point only increases the number of circuts required before a first solo and can at times be a confidence sapper for the student. Let's face it, the bulk of the pilot population don't land the aeroplane properly anyway (to flat) and even less are able to demonstrate a proper crosswind landing technique. So getting someone with little more than 8 to 10 hours total time in their log book to be comfortable doing a crosswind landing in a 10 to 15 crosswind on they're first solo is a big ask. I will always demonstrate the technique to the student to show them what's required, but that's all. The crosswind circuts and landings can be done later on.
A students first solo is a major milestone in their flying career and is something that they will remember for perhaps the rest of their life. By the time they get to the first solo, they have already invested a large amount of time, effort and money to reach this goal and it simply has to be done right.
The weather has to be right, the traffic conditions have to be right, the aeroplane's gotta be right and most importantly, the student has to be right! It's to important an event to stuff up.
Get the basics right and concentrate on more complex issues (for a student) such as crosswind landings a bit further down the track.
One more thing. No-one goes solo and I mean no-one, unless they can demonstrate to me on a consistent basis that they understand and know what the landing attitude for the aeroplane is.
If a student doesn't know this at the time of his or her fist solo they never will and you as the instructor haven't done your job and the student has been sold short.
This situation has the potential to end in tears further down the track.
Get the attitude right and everything else will eventually fall into place.
I've never been all that interested in making sure that a student is competent with the crosswind landing technique before their first solo, because as I said above they're already having a tough enough time of simply getting the machine back on the ground in a manner that they're satisfied with.
Introducing crosswind landings at this point only increases the number of circuts required before a first solo and can at times be a confidence sapper for the student. Let's face it, the bulk of the pilot population don't land the aeroplane properly anyway (to flat) and even less are able to demonstrate a proper crosswind landing technique. So getting someone with little more than 8 to 10 hours total time in their log book to be comfortable doing a crosswind landing in a 10 to 15 crosswind on they're first solo is a big ask. I will always demonstrate the technique to the student to show them what's required, but that's all. The crosswind circuts and landings can be done later on.
A students first solo is a major milestone in their flying career and is something that they will remember for perhaps the rest of their life. By the time they get to the first solo, they have already invested a large amount of time, effort and money to reach this goal and it simply has to be done right.
The weather has to be right, the traffic conditions have to be right, the aeroplane's gotta be right and most importantly, the student has to be right! It's to important an event to stuff up.
Get the basics right and concentrate on more complex issues (for a student) such as crosswind landings a bit further down the track.
One more thing. No-one goes solo and I mean no-one, unless they can demonstrate to me on a consistent basis that they understand and know what the landing attitude for the aeroplane is.
If a student doesn't know this at the time of his or her fist solo they never will and you as the instructor haven't done your job and the student has been sold short.
This situation has the potential to end in tears further down the track.
Get the attitude right and everything else will eventually fall into place.
