AFAP is Pathetic

[PennyBenjamin]

The minimum wage just went up to over $700 a week. This is almost as much as a full time commercial pilot. Ha! Don't give me the 'I love to fly - I would do it for nothing crap' - we all love it, but at the end of the day, we deserve better. AFAP are such a dead weight in this industry it is no wonder no one joins them.
For all of you young guys who think the airlines will pull you out of this financial hole sometime soon, forget it - even they are reducing their wages.

What are AFAP doing? Did we hear from them after the Lockhart river crash when this issue was raised? No. They are in the pockets of the operators and have done nothing to improve the award in recent years. The Adelaide RFDS guys had the balls to go it alone and fight for their wages - well done.

What am I asking for? Strikes! Rallies! Go Slows! Industry wide action that can only be addressed as a pilot group, but without a binding body we are nothing. I would love to see another pilot strike, this time in GA and regionals. Think of how many ministers and polly's we transport every day.

Have a go AFAP. Cowards.

[scrambler]

Nice thought, however what is a union? It is the collective of all of us.

Maybe if more GA pilots join up and put in some time with the AFAP, as a large collective of pilots we may have a show.

It would be interesting to know how many GA drivers (not those in larger organisations) have taken the time to join up?

You can't expect miracles to happen without unity or people prepared to dig into their own pockets.

[topdrop]

Originally Posted by PennyBenjamin

The minimum wage just went up to over $700 a week.

No it didn't. The wages of those earning less than $700 per week rose by $27.36 making the new minimum wage $511.86.

[jetstar787]

why not go for 29.47% and resign if you don't get it!

[Stink Finger]

This thread was down to death a very short time ago.

The AFAP has only been in existence for 20 plus years, they are still finding their feet on the little issues, like GA pilots ( 1% of a GA wage is insignificant right ?).

[almostthere!]

Wow! The minimum wage went up to $511 per week for the lowest paid workers. Most of these are only allowed to work a 38 hour week so that is $13.45 an hour. The GA pilots award, negotiated by the AFAP, gives $30066 pa equating to $578 per week. Now considering that most pilots/slaves are required to work 45 hour weeks in regards to the CAO 48 maximum of 90 hour fortnights, that is $12.84 an hour. Awesome. Oh I forgot that is only for those fortunate enough to be working with one of the minority that actually pay there pilots by the award on a full time basis. Yeah, like I said awesome.... Well that is 5% kick in the head, oh and don't forget those interest payments on your loans to get that job..... Go you good thing AFAP, Go!!!

[PennyBenjamin]

Erratum

In corrction to earlier, the figures I quoted were out of Newscorp reports, and are incorrect, for that I apologise. Maybe I will get on Media Watch this week?

However I stand by the fact that we need change in AFAP. Either a new union or a change of tack by AFAP management. I believe that we are all worth much more than the award allows, but no i won't quit, I will work towards a better solution.

For all those who defend the current wages, your admission that you are only worthy of the current conditions is great, and I'm glad you are happy.
Agree with me or not, the topic is important to be aired!

[Explicitus]

Cao 48

Originally Posted by almostthere!

Now considering that most pilots/slaves are required to work 45 hour weeks in regards to the CAO 48 maximum of 90 hour fortnights, that is $12.84 an hour.

I sincerely hope that those 90 hour fortnights are not in contravention of the annual maximum hours as per CAO 48:

http://www.casa.gov.au/download/orders/cao48/4801.pdf

If so, then we have big problems, and something definitely needs to be done!

[apache]

Are you a member of the AFAP Penny ? Have you ever BEEN a member ?
Are you employed under the "Award" ? or an "AWA"? or a Handshake agreement ?
Have you ever put anything INTO the AFAP for consideration / comment / action ?

not being nasty ... just curious.

[grrowler]

I think a fundamental problem with the AFAP is their apparent lack of interest in getting GA pilot membership. I didn't even know who they were until quite a while into my GA flying.

Why don't the union reps take some time to travel to "first job" locations and put on some information nights, etc. If people actually knew what AFAP had to offer (hmmm, slightly tongue in cheek) maybe they would join.

Perhaps in this IR day and age it's already too late, but I believe the entire industry's condition standards stem from what happens in GA. Fix the problem at it's source.

[almostthere!]

Originally Posted by Explicitus

I sincerely hope that those 90 hour fortnights are not in contravention of the annual maximum hours as per CAO 48:

Explicitus,

90 hour fortnights refer to duty time not flight time. The only limitation on duty time is a fortnightly one, not an annual one. As such working a 90 hour fortnight would have no effect on annual limitations unless it was all flying time, but then that would break the 7 day and monthly flying limts before any annual limits were broken!!

[multime]

Just Don,t know

Since 2 days ago my insites have have been wiped off this forum.
But i,m not suspecting politics am i?.
M

[cunninglinguist]

This reminds me of an outfit I worked for not so long ago, less than 1/2 the pilots where in the AFAP but expected Lawrie and the boys to go in and fight for them.
Why should they do anything for non members? and they can only help those that will help themselves, they cant go in and bang their fists on the desk of management with less than 1/2 the pilot group prepared to do anything about their lot.
How many GA pilots are members ?
How many GA pilots are prepared to go on strike and how many GA pilots will walk into other peoples jobs when they get the boot for striking ??

Take it from me, if you ever have a dust up with an employer or ex employer or worse an accident/incident, the AFAP are good people to have on side.
( as one of my ex-workmates would testify to when he lost evrything he owned fighting the wonderful company he worked for, he was'nt a member )

[Bazzamundi]

Why put money into them when it is all spent on things such as fighting other pilots in court to see which union has the biggest dick syndrome?

Unless all the unions in Australia work together, things will only go downhill. Look at all the good things that have happened to terms and conditions in the last couple of years with the AFAP, AIPA and JPC all trying to be the big player.

When they all get their ship in order, the backbone to really fix the problems in GA will be much better. Until then, only small issues will be fought.

[PennyBenjamin]

Originally Posted by disco_air

Penny I dare say you probably arent even a member.
You probably work for less than the award.
You probably whinge about it but wont do anything about it (unless someone else does first).
But thats just an assumption.
...disco

Thanks for your irrelevent assumptions Dicso, they are wrong, but thanks. The only correct assumption is that as of this year I am no longer a member after a number of years on the AFAP books. I am sick of being ignored and told 'that is simply what you get paid for being a pilot' and 'those conditions seem reasonable'. I want to hear 'we are working on a pay rise commensurate with inflation, or more. I want to hear about new attempts at concessions like airways manuals, medicals, pilot supplies and renewals being in the award. How about long service leave or maternaty leave. How about someone fights the FAID system that makes pilots work their guts out.

Just some ideas the AFA sees as unachievable. I think they are achievable and can be achieved by a more GA friendly organization.

Well said Bazzamundi

[disco_air]

Apologies, assumptions retracted.

I just come across so many non-members that want AFAP to do something for them first before they join, otherwise fall back into the apathetic view of 'oh well, thats how it is in this industry'... It is not up to the Federation itself to enforce pay and conditions, its up to the members.

Again apologies.

...disco

[Capt Wally]

.unions

.........once upon a time there where organisations called unions..........that was way back when they had a lot of clout, these days unions are sadly becoming less & less powerful for a whole lot of reasons. The AFAP like the TWU will always have their place as others have said amongst these pages a union is really the collective thoughts/abilities of it's members. I can remember when the TWU where very powerful in the transport industry as well as the painters & dockers down at the warfs but we all know what happened to the latter, times change & so must we:-)

.........support who you must but we do live in a free world........well for now anyway:-)


Capt Wally...

[Bendo]

"...so many ...that want AFAP to do something for them first before they join..."

Disco, I would argue that the AFAP HAVE done something for all GA pilots: they have negotiated the award and they continue to work to improve the terms and conditions that apply, as a minimum, to all of us.

I know in your case I am probably preaching to the converted but the more of us that have the cajones to join and support the AFAP, the more power they will have.... or that's how it was supposed to work before JW Howard's ideological extremeism won the day

PENNYBENJAMIN
Re: Long service leave and maternity leave

The award has a provision for both and furthermore, it is a State or Federal legislative requirement (depending on where you live) that you receive both.

s. 27.1 of the award: "Long service leave will be granted and taken in accordance with the appropriate State, Territory or Commonwealth Act"

s. 25 is quite lengthy with very detailed provisions for maternity, paternity and adoption leave.

Were you really a member of the AFAP? Did you actually read the award?

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Bendo, this award you speak of does not cover all states and territories, try QLD for example.

In the states and territories it does apply, it is not enforced.

How many Pilots from the NT are not paid the award.

[bushy]

Award

Many of the NT pilots ARE paid according to the GA award. Many others are paid according to a contract arrangement that has been set up by a non aviation business in Alice Springs. It is more practical than the award, with conditions at least equal to the award. I believe it has the approval of the authorities.
Too many others are working for poorer operators and accepting substandard rates and conditions. They are the poorer pilots, and are irresponsible fools.