Current Market in NZ
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Current Market in NZ
Hi All,
I am seriously considering biting the bullet and finally chase my dream of being a career instructor. I've spoken to a few flying schools, and take everything they say with a gain of salt.
So, are there any kiwi instructors out there willing to offer any advice on the current market, etc?
Thanks for your help,
Matt.
I am seriously considering biting the bullet and finally chase my dream of being a career instructor. I've spoken to a few flying schools, and take everything they say with a gain of salt.
So, are there any kiwi instructors out there willing to offer any advice on the current market, etc?
Thanks for your help,
Matt.
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I salute you
Heya Matt.
Well done on deciding that this goal is one worthwhile persuing. I have been trained by a career instructor who was trained by Brian Cox - the ultimate in career instruction. And I'm happy to say that I can now give back to G.A. by passing on what I've learned as a "C" Category Flying Instructor.
I would be interested in finding out where you are currently at with your flying. With any training that you do, please use the pay-as-you-go method. This way you will be able to advise your students **with integrity** how to spend their hard-earned cash.
I can recommend a great website www.whitsflying.com from an old-time instructor who candidly shares all the best advice for instructing.
In regards to the current market - Commercial employers are looking for good pilots who are teachable, relatively experienced, and with a good attitude. These people also make the best instructors. So the best instructors get given flying jobs - like I did - leaving the less useful instructors to pass on their own bad attitude... That is why I salute you for wanting to be a career instructor.
I wish you well for your future career. PM me if you want more specific information.
ECT?
Well done on deciding that this goal is one worthwhile persuing. I have been trained by a career instructor who was trained by Brian Cox - the ultimate in career instruction. And I'm happy to say that I can now give back to G.A. by passing on what I've learned as a "C" Category Flying Instructor.
I would be interested in finding out where you are currently at with your flying. With any training that you do, please use the pay-as-you-go method. This way you will be able to advise your students **with integrity** how to spend their hard-earned cash.
I can recommend a great website www.whitsflying.com from an old-time instructor who candidly shares all the best advice for instructing.
In regards to the current market - Commercial employers are looking for good pilots who are teachable, relatively experienced, and with a good attitude. These people also make the best instructors. So the best instructors get given flying jobs - like I did - leaving the less useful instructors to pass on their own bad attitude... That is why I salute you for wanting to be a career instructor.
I wish you well for your future career. PM me if you want more specific information.
ECT?
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What he said...
There's quite a shortage of experienced instructors, and no shortage at all of inexperienced instructors. So, after a few years of struggling in the latter category, you will fall into the former category, and your career will get a little easier.
Take care where you train, as graduates of six-week / 26 hour instructor courses can be seen a mile away. Provided you've been taught by an experienced person, preferably an examiner him/herself, your knowledge is likely to be up to the required standard.
Good onya, and best of luck!
O8
Take care where you train, as graduates of six-week / 26 hour instructor courses can be seen a mile away. Provided you've been taught by an experienced person, preferably an examiner him/herself, your knowledge is likely to be up to the required standard.
Good onya, and best of luck!
O8
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That's all good advise. Just remember, big flying schools could probibly benifit MOST from a few good career instructors. For your own satisfaction I would agree with DAN though.
I really admire people who are truly talented at teaching anything, flight instructors included. It's something I did out of necessity, but was never that great at.
Hats off to anyone who can make a go of it
I really admire people who are truly talented at teaching anything, flight instructors included. It's something I did out of necessity, but was never that great at.
Hats off to anyone who can make a go of it
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Good on ya Matt..
the industry needs good career instructors.
I train new C Cats, and I look for the 'right attitude' with a prospective candidate. The arrogant know alls, I wont even bother with, taints my reputation.
Dont be in a hurry to do the C cat, train with a GOOD B or A cat, and, for what its worth, stay away from sausage factory's,,,,,,,,,,, (unless you can latch on to someone Like Mark Carter)
I REALLY enjoy instructing, its more like teaching , mentoring, and coaching, rather than instructing........students become friends............. my mentor from over 30 years ago is still a friend.
Remember, students are ALL different, teaching styles will need to be different for each one, and most importantly, students have feelings.
Use the CAA GAP manual for instructors,stick close to your mentoring A or B cat, and in a few years you will be full time, and enjoying it.
ect? Look up the daylight tables old chap, your spelling in the dark is not the best! That website you mention, must be one of the best around, a must for any instructor.
Keep Training..........
Loco......................
the industry needs good career instructors.
I train new C Cats, and I look for the 'right attitude' with a prospective candidate. The arrogant know alls, I wont even bother with, taints my reputation.
Dont be in a hurry to do the C cat, train with a GOOD B or A cat, and, for what its worth, stay away from sausage factory's,,,,,,,,,,, (unless you can latch on to someone Like Mark Carter)
I REALLY enjoy instructing, its more like teaching , mentoring, and coaching, rather than instructing........students become friends............. my mentor from over 30 years ago is still a friend.
Remember, students are ALL different, teaching styles will need to be different for each one, and most importantly, students have feelings.
Use the CAA GAP manual for instructors,stick close to your mentoring A or B cat, and in a few years you will be full time, and enjoying it.
ect? Look up the daylight tables old chap, your spelling in the dark is not the best! That website you mention, must be one of the best around, a must for any instructor.
Keep Training..........
Loco......................
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ZK DAN and CC i agree with you both
There is a need for good quality instructors with some form of dedication to the industry.
How ever I think an A OR B Cat who has dedicated him or herself to instructing in one company has their limits.
I would personally rather see guys and girls with decades of experience in the Airline industry come back, particularly in teaching IFR. There are many D Cats out there with this experience.
You don’t need an A OR B Cat to be a good IFR teacher. They’re plenty of guys particularly flying the regionals in NZ that would have far more to offer, but many choose not to because of the
they have to deal with, and mainly it comes from these senior instructors at the school.
I realise this is not the case at all schools and I have seen guys in the airline environment come back and teaching, and the results do speak for themselves.
I realise this may upset a few but that just my 10cents worth
There is a need for good quality instructors with some form of dedication to the industry.
How ever I think an A OR B Cat who has dedicated him or herself to instructing in one company has their limits.
I would personally rather see guys and girls with decades of experience in the Airline industry come back, particularly in teaching IFR. There are many D Cats out there with this experience.
You don’t need an A OR B Cat to be a good IFR teacher. They’re plenty of guys particularly flying the regionals in NZ that would have far more to offer, but many choose not to because of the
they have to deal with, and mainly it comes from these senior instructors at the school. I realise this is not the case at all schools and I have seen guys in the airline environment come back and teaching, and the results do speak for themselves.
I realise this may upset a few but that just my 10cents worth
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Nothing wrong with what you say Kiwi Expat - like you say, the results speak for themselves.
Little bit harsh on the senior instructors though don't you think? If a similar idea was implemented in the Air Link group, the cries of outrage would be heard across the Tasman. Disliking and discouraging "outsiders" is a human problem, not a senior instructor problem.
As to sausage factories - well, I work for one, I admit it. I'm amused by your statement Locodriver - "stay away from sausage factories" and then naming the CFI of one of the biggest sausage factories in NZ (said tongue in cheek - I have no axe to grind against Massey). Perhaps we could agree that Mr Mouse should go to an instructor with a good reputation, regardless of the size of his / her flying school. Big schools do not equal good outcome, neither do they equal bad outcome.
How about it Mr Mouse?
Little bit harsh on the senior instructors though don't you think? If a similar idea was implemented in the Air Link group, the cries of outrage would be heard across the Tasman. Disliking and discouraging "outsiders" is a human problem, not a senior instructor problem.
As to sausage factories - well, I work for one, I admit it. I'm amused by your statement Locodriver - "stay away from sausage factories" and then naming the CFI of one of the biggest sausage factories in NZ (said tongue in cheek - I have no axe to grind against Massey). Perhaps we could agree that Mr Mouse should go to an instructor with a good reputation, regardless of the size of his / her flying school. Big schools do not equal good outcome, neither do they equal bad outcome.
How about it Mr Mouse?
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Speaking as an ex-airline (in Europe) guy, I have found it very difficult to get instructing work back here in NZ.
The C-cats don't want you there because they think you are going to pinch all "their" hours, the CFIs are scared of being shown up by somebody with actual commercial experience, about the only ones who welcome you are the commercial students who just want an insight into how it is all done in the real world.
It's ironic that there is supposedly such a shortage of experienced instructors, particularly multi instructors. The schools seem intent on keeping the experienced guys out.
It is even more of a pity that aspiring professional pilots don't get exposed to "real world" IFR, as virtually none of the instructors teaching instrument ratings actual HAVE any commercial IFR experience.
Instructing is actually more fun than airline flying (if you like flying, as opposed to pushing buttons and "managing" the flight), and is incredibly rewarding if you enjoy helping other people attain their goals - so go for it.
The C-cats don't want you there because they think you are going to pinch all "their" hours, the CFIs are scared of being shown up by somebody with actual commercial experience, about the only ones who welcome you are the commercial students who just want an insight into how it is all done in the real world.
It's ironic that there is supposedly such a shortage of experienced instructors, particularly multi instructors. The schools seem intent on keeping the experienced guys out.
It is even more of a pity that aspiring professional pilots don't get exposed to "real world" IFR, as virtually none of the instructors teaching instrument ratings actual HAVE any commercial IFR experience.
Instructing is actually more fun than airline flying (if you like flying, as opposed to pushing buttons and "managing" the flight), and is incredibly rewarding if you enjoy helping other people attain their goals - so go for it.
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Octas8
Very true. All to often we blame certain groups in the aviation community for exhibiting what are essentially human traits. However, any CFI worth their salt will look very seriously at an experienced instructor - many do.
I agree that being a career instructor at one of the bigger flying schools could have its advantages. At times there is a lack of mentoring for new C Cats at some of these outfits, and that can be very damaging.
Very true. All to often we blame certain groups in the aviation community for exhibiting what are essentially human traits. However, any CFI worth their salt will look very seriously at an experienced instructor - many do.
I agree that being a career instructor at one of the bigger flying schools could have its advantages. At times there is a lack of mentoring for new C Cats at some of these outfits, and that can be very damaging.
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Remoak,
Good old flying school politics at its best, I had a similar experience last year when I went to hire a puddle-jumper back in NZ, explained I had a "C" cat (gained in 1999), but was told in no uncertain terms that I was persona non grata 
and that flying offshore was "totally different" to flying back here in NZ mate!
I guess I must've threatened the guy somehow..even though I wasn't job hunting...just wanting to hire a 182
Speaking as an ex-airline (in Europe) guy, I have found it very difficult to get instructing work back here in NZ.
The C-cats don't want you there because they think you are going to pinch all "their" hours, the CFIs are scared of being shown up by somebody with actual commercial experience, about the only ones who welcome you are the commercial students who just want an insight into how it is all done in the real world.
The C-cats don't want you there because they think you are going to pinch all "their" hours, the CFIs are scared of being shown up by somebody with actual commercial experience, about the only ones who welcome you are the commercial students who just want an insight into how it is all done in the real world.
and that flying offshore was "totally different" to flying back here in NZ mate!I guess I must've threatened the guy somehow..even though I wasn't job hunting...just wanting to hire a 182
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same rubbish
H1 ...yeah mate we must have seen the same bloke as I recieved the same horse****e,and the 6 type ratings I have meant absolutely zip......so I asked him......When you pull back on the stick do the houses get smaller???,and when you push forward do they get bigger ???? or is that different different now in kiwi because when I learned to fly here back in 76(4 years b4 he was born) that was the case ,Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzz ....come on boys,it not that difficult...........PB
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The problem is that the instructors we have all seen, that have fed us this crap, are so inexperienced that they can't correctly assess the abilities of ex-airline folk. They have no point of reference, other than the smallest of light aircraft. They don't get that we have been where they are (many years before), we have all that stuff stored away, and it comes back real fast when you jump into the cockpit.
I recently enquired of the local aero club as how I should prepare for a BFR. "Just turn up", I was told. Do you have any handling notes, I enquired? "Errr... ummm... you won't need those", I was told. But I would really like to prepare, I said, just as I spend the week before a two-day sim check reading the Ops Manual. Much scratching of heads... eventually a single A4 sheet of paper was produced, with a few speeds and the wingspan on it.
I mean OK a 152 isn't a 747, but the story illustrates the huge gulf between airline flying and bottom-rung GA, and it is mostly about attitude. The arrogance that we all seem to have experienced, stems from a somewhat unprofessional attitude amongst the newbie instructor brigade. There seems to be a lot of "I'm the instructor, you are the idiot, now sit down while I explain to you how we REALLY do it..."
Bet you anything you like that the instructor that told haughtney1 that flying offshore was "totally different" had never actually BEEN offshore. 'Cos we all know that the air changes radically as soon as you get ten miles offshore... the physics of flight are suspended... the clouds become ravening monsters... etc etc etc...
I recently enquired of the local aero club as how I should prepare for a BFR. "Just turn up", I was told. Do you have any handling notes, I enquired? "Errr... ummm... you won't need those", I was told. But I would really like to prepare, I said, just as I spend the week before a two-day sim check reading the Ops Manual. Much scratching of heads... eventually a single A4 sheet of paper was produced, with a few speeds and the wingspan on it.
I mean OK a 152 isn't a 747, but the story illustrates the huge gulf between airline flying and bottom-rung GA, and it is mostly about attitude. The arrogance that we all seem to have experienced, stems from a somewhat unprofessional attitude amongst the newbie instructor brigade. There seems to be a lot of "I'm the instructor, you are the idiot, now sit down while I explain to you how we REALLY do it..."
Bet you anything you like that the instructor that told haughtney1 that flying offshore was "totally different" had never actually BEEN offshore. 'Cos we all know that the air changes radically as soon as you get ten miles offshore... the physics of flight are suspended... the clouds become ravening monsters... etc etc etc...
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Oktas8
Yea I may have been a bit harsh there on the senior instructors.
Think I have just dealt with to many of those bad ones in my GA time, tainting my view slightly, you know the one that gets their A Cat and decides they now know everything
I certainly take on what you are saying
There are a few quality A Cat instructors out there, who have had the mix of flying jets/turbo props currently and formally who are A Cats. Those are the people that are an asset to in instructing industry. I have had the pleasure of dealing with many them in many areas of my previous GA flying.
Remoak
There are places where people would appreciate your experience; they just tend to be at the smaller aero clubs rather than larger flying schools
Yea I may have been a bit harsh there on the senior instructors.
Think I have just dealt with to many of those bad ones in my GA time, tainting my view slightly, you know the one that gets their A Cat and decides they now know everything
I certainly take on what you are saying
There are a few quality A Cat instructors out there, who have had the mix of flying jets/turbo props currently and formally who are A Cats. Those are the people that are an asset to in instructing industry. I have had the pleasure of dealing with many them in many areas of my previous GA flying.
Remoak
There are places where people would appreciate your experience; they just tend to be at the smaller aero clubs rather than larger flying schools