First Job Q's
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sydney
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First Job Q's
Hi all,
In response to the 'first job blues' post, im getting some mixed ideas about obtaing that valuable first job - some people saying that there are plenty of decent jobs out there for a fresh CPL, others saying that you will only get a gig cleaning toilets with an operater promising flying further down the track to no prevail.
Im asking because i am close to my CPL flight test and and obvioulsy want to get work soon after. I am prepared to relocate, but will NOT work for free or go beyond the reasonable call of duty.
Comments anyone?
In response to the 'first job blues' post, im getting some mixed ideas about obtaing that valuable first job - some people saying that there are plenty of decent jobs out there for a fresh CPL, others saying that you will only get a gig cleaning toilets with an operater promising flying further down the track to no prevail.
Im asking because i am close to my CPL flight test and and obvioulsy want to get work soon after. I am prepared to relocate, but will NOT work for free or go beyond the reasonable call of duty.
Comments anyone?
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Doom and Gloom
Don't worry too much, most ppruners just like to tell the bad stories as they are usually more interesting and help to make us all feel better about our current situations.
When your getting prepared for the job hunt, make sure you have done your Dangerous goods cert, st johns first aid and if your heading north a Medium Rigid Truck licence with a F class endoresment (allows you to drive a bus). This is a requirement in Broome and kunnunurra for scenic pilots as they also drive the bus on occasions.
As for finding your first job, unfortunately it probably wont happen by living at home sending out resumes. So work your butt off until you have some cash in the bank, then visit cash converters and sell any excess gear, then visit mr centrelink (might as well get some of your tax back) and then pack the boot of your car and hit the road. Stop in every single town along the way and drive out to their airstrip. Say G'Day to anyone that is getting about and check out if their are any operators or aircraft there. You would be suprised that even the smallest little town in the middle of now where might have a charter company. The chances are they won't have a million pilots sitting on the front step like cairns, darwin, broome and kunnunarra so they will appreciate your time and effort and might even give you some work or point you to someone that will. All ways make a follow up call a day or two later, don't pester them just thank them for their time and restate your willingness to work and return to location if the operators situation chages. It has been the follow up call that has landed most of my mates their first gig. If all else fails head to the mentioned places and try your luck.
If you see an add or hear of a job opening, go and walk in the front door, even if that involves a flight, drive across states. A recent add on AFAP resulted in over 100 resumes. The guy that got the job, took the time to drive out to the country town and hand deliver his resume. He wasn't the most qualified but showed the most desire and effort. It always looks good and gives the boss a chance to face to face and saves them from sorting through 100+ resumes.
One thing that is a great idea is go to a minuteman press or similar place and get some business cards made up. You can usually get a box made up pretty cheap. Keep them simply, name, email, phone number (no wanky job titles such as commercial pilot, etc). Then give one to every person you meet on your travels.
Lastly, enjoy the road trip, you'll have a ball along the way and meet some interesting people.
P.S. Get your car serviced before you leave and get a good tent or swag, its cheaper then motel rooms, especially if your on the road for a month or two.
When your getting prepared for the job hunt, make sure you have done your Dangerous goods cert, st johns first aid and if your heading north a Medium Rigid Truck licence with a F class endoresment (allows you to drive a bus). This is a requirement in Broome and kunnunurra for scenic pilots as they also drive the bus on occasions.
As for finding your first job, unfortunately it probably wont happen by living at home sending out resumes. So work your butt off until you have some cash in the bank, then visit cash converters and sell any excess gear, then visit mr centrelink (might as well get some of your tax back) and then pack the boot of your car and hit the road. Stop in every single town along the way and drive out to their airstrip. Say G'Day to anyone that is getting about and check out if their are any operators or aircraft there. You would be suprised that even the smallest little town in the middle of now where might have a charter company. The chances are they won't have a million pilots sitting on the front step like cairns, darwin, broome and kunnunarra so they will appreciate your time and effort and might even give you some work or point you to someone that will. All ways make a follow up call a day or two later, don't pester them just thank them for their time and restate your willingness to work and return to location if the operators situation chages. It has been the follow up call that has landed most of my mates their first gig. If all else fails head to the mentioned places and try your luck.
If you see an add or hear of a job opening, go and walk in the front door, even if that involves a flight, drive across states. A recent add on AFAP resulted in over 100 resumes. The guy that got the job, took the time to drive out to the country town and hand deliver his resume. He wasn't the most qualified but showed the most desire and effort. It always looks good and gives the boss a chance to face to face and saves them from sorting through 100+ resumes.
One thing that is a great idea is go to a minuteman press or similar place and get some business cards made up. You can usually get a box made up pretty cheap. Keep them simply, name, email, phone number (no wanky job titles such as commercial pilot, etc). Then give one to every person you meet on your travels.
Lastly, enjoy the road trip, you'll have a ball along the way and meet some interesting people.
P.S. Get your car serviced before you leave and get a good tent or swag, its cheaper then motel rooms, especially if your on the road for a month or two.
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Riding The Goat is spot on, great advice.
I once read a post on this forum, that went something like this.
"There are heaps of 172's/182's in hangers out in the bush, its the new CPL's job to go out there and find them."
And that's what you've got to do.
Good Luck
I once read a post on this forum, that went something like this.
"There are heaps of 172's/182's in hangers out in the bush, its the new CPL's job to go out there and find them."
And that's what you've got to do.
Good Luck
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There's probably heaps of hangars too 
Medium Rigid Truck is a bit excessive, since most courtesy buses are Light Rigid.... unless of course you intend on also joining the local fire brigade!
Otherwise Riding The Goat is spot on! Getting out there and meeting people face to face is a million times better than emails/post/phonecalls in isolation.
Another bit of advice, take LOTS of photos... truly memorable experiences you will have.
...disco
Medium Rigid Truck is a bit excessive, since most courtesy buses are Light Rigid.... unless of course you intend on also joining the local fire brigade!
Otherwise Riding The Goat is spot on! Getting out there and meeting people face to face is a million times better than emails/post/phonecalls in isolation.
Another bit of advice, take LOTS of photos... truly memorable experiences you will have.
...disco
I completed my CPL in 98. I flew skydivers for free, half an hours drive down the road on weekends and an ocassional weekday for around three months after finishing my CPL. I was also doing my IR at the time.
When I headed north I had 250 hours. I spoke to all the companies I could find on the phone and none of them gave me much hope.
When I arrived in Darwin I felt desperate, but I got a bar job and met some lovely backpackers to boot. Many prospective employers told me that it was the wrong time of year. (August) I went around to all of them with a single page resume, that's all they used to want because the type of guys that do the hiring and firing don't seem to have the attention span to go through anything longer.
One mob I spoke to told me that they had just put someone on, however he guy asked me if I had any other useful skills such as a background with mechanics or the like. I told him about the work that I had done overhauling my 250cc motorbike.
I then drove 300 km out to Arnhem land, another mob out there still had my resume and seemed more than surprised that someone had actually taken the time to do the drive without as much as a sniff at a job. They showed me around and seemed quite genuine about giving me a crack in the near future, presumably because I had shown a bit of initiative and had at least proven that I didn't have two heads.
While driving back into Darwin from Arnhem land that afternoon, I got a call from the other guy that was impressed at my mechanical skills, they still needed someone after all, and I was invited to start the next day. They only had singles for me, but they paid all my accommodation and many meals plus $20K. It was a lot less than the other job I left behind in Sydney but three times the fun.
I had been in Darwin two weeks waiting for work before I got this job!
It wasn't all beer, skittles and shinny jets from then on but it has been fun and I am in a bloody ripper of a job now, so don't let the bastards get you down and keep in mind the positive stories as well as the negative ones.
Willie Nelson.
When I headed north I had 250 hours. I spoke to all the companies I could find on the phone and none of them gave me much hope.
When I arrived in Darwin I felt desperate, but I got a bar job and met some lovely backpackers to boot. Many prospective employers told me that it was the wrong time of year. (August) I went around to all of them with a single page resume, that's all they used to want because the type of guys that do the hiring and firing don't seem to have the attention span to go through anything longer.
One mob I spoke to told me that they had just put someone on, however he guy asked me if I had any other useful skills such as a background with mechanics or the like. I told him about the work that I had done overhauling my 250cc motorbike.
I then drove 300 km out to Arnhem land, another mob out there still had my resume and seemed more than surprised that someone had actually taken the time to do the drive without as much as a sniff at a job. They showed me around and seemed quite genuine about giving me a crack in the near future, presumably because I had shown a bit of initiative and had at least proven that I didn't have two heads.
While driving back into Darwin from Arnhem land that afternoon, I got a call from the other guy that was impressed at my mechanical skills, they still needed someone after all, and I was invited to start the next day. They only had singles for me, but they paid all my accommodation and many meals plus $20K. It was a lot less than the other job I left behind in Sydney but three times the fun.
I had been in Darwin two weeks waiting for work before I got this job!
It wasn't all beer, skittles and shinny jets from then on but it has been fun and I am in a bloody ripper of a job now, so don't let the bastards get you down and keep in mind the positive stories as well as the negative ones.
Willie Nelson.
I agree with all the replies here, but also keep your ears open and gather as many contacts as possible. I got my first job through a friend who knew someone was going to leave, so the day he left i gave them a call and 3 hours later was out checking out the outfit. I was pretty much hired on the spot pending some icus and now have a few hundred turboprop.
The jobs are there, and as said it is a matter of finding them. Being in the right place at the right time is also handy
The jobs are there, and as said it is a matter of finding them. Being in the right place at the right time is also handy
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Just wondering man, for a guy with just high school cert and probably with a diploma in aviation with a 200 hour CPL what kind of jobs can he find in Oz/NZ to support himself while looking for that first real job? Is it enough to suvive with a car and living expenses?
Grandpa Aerotart
Just to back up what The Hill suggested above...my first full time employment came 20 yrs ago (God I am feeling old
) after 12 mths of part time instructing (including relief instructing at Narrabri), part time parachute pilot and the odd VFR charter while driving taxis in Sydney
.
I had been given a name to call in PNG...he gave me another name of someone who might be in a position to hire someone with 350 odd hrs...I rang him weekly but he would not give me a job over the phone...so, after a mth or so I got on a QF flight to Port Moresby and then got on a Talair flight to Chimbu...I arrived in Kundiawa, provincial center of Chimbu Province in the central highlands, with a duffle bag full of essentials and less than $10 in my pocket, actually less than $10 to my name...two days later, actually might have been the following afternoon, memory fades, was offered a job flying a C185 by the CP of Simbu Aviation...they also had an islander and I was flying that before I had 450 hrs...full time flying with all the flying you could cope with, cargo bois to wash and load the aircraft, house to live in...a year later joined Talair...etc etc etc.
What a grand adventure it was.
) after 12 mths of part time instructing (including relief instructing at Narrabri), part time parachute pilot and the odd VFR charter while driving taxis in Sydney.
I had been given a name to call in PNG...he gave me another name of someone who might be in a position to hire someone with 350 odd hrs...I rang him weekly but he would not give me a job over the phone...so, after a mth or so I got on a QF flight to Port Moresby and then got on a Talair flight to Chimbu...I arrived in Kundiawa, provincial center of Chimbu Province in the central highlands, with a duffle bag full of essentials and less than $10 in my pocket, actually less than $10 to my name...two days later, actually might have been the following afternoon, memory fades, was offered a job flying a C185 by the CP of Simbu Aviation...they also had an islander and I was flying that before I had 450 hrs...full time flying with all the flying you could cope with, cargo bois to wash and load the aircraft, house to live in...a year later joined Talair...etc etc etc.
What a grand adventure it was.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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tunerab,
perfect timing on finishing your CPL the guys in the kimberley are coming up to the hiring season. Phone the operators in the town of choice let them know you're on your way and tell them when you're going to be in town. As soon as you get to town go and see them but be prepared to work for a few months before the job comes up.
Character building stuff and a whole lot of fun aswell.
perfect timing on finishing your CPL the guys in the kimberley are coming up to the hiring season. Phone the operators in the town of choice let them know you're on your way and tell them when you're going to be in town. As soon as you get to town go and see them but be prepared to work for a few months before the job comes up.
Character building stuff and a whole lot of fun aswell.
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TURNERAB, I was in a similar situation 2 years ago but was restricted by location due to my darling wife who didnt want to pack up and head into the 300 hr CPL sunset! I knew most of the local operators in my area but only a couple took on pilots with these hours. There was one CP I knew vaguely who I kept in touch with probably only once every 6 months.........when I hit the 300 mark with some good C210 time I SMS him my hours and quals etc., obviously in brief format. He was impressed with the originality of my Resume delivery and was coincidently looking at putting on a part time pilot not far from home. I saved him time and money with the SMS timing it beautifully before he was about to start filing through all the resumes he had. This kept the MRS happy and enabled me to fly throughout the year and not sacrafice our income. I was lucky, and a lot of CPL first job offer breaks are but with the SMS I thought beyond the square.........good luck buddy....Riding the Goat did sum it up beautifully if your prepared to hit the road and dont have a family who cant go with you.
PA
PA
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Balls on the line
There are jobs out there but you just have to put your balls on the line, I rocked up in Botswana knowing no-one with 200.4 hrs and no twin or instrument. After begging for jobs for 6 weeks I pissed off to Namibia and got a job there, but a lot of guys also go home empty handed but you have to give it a go. Same deal in Aus, most operators use resume's that have been sent from 100's of miles away to wipe their arse, you have to go and see operators in person to even get a look-in at a first job, I think thats common sense but so many fresh cpl pilots just sit at home waiting for someone to offer them a job.
For Botswana you really need to be there late december to stand a chance, they prefer 250 hrs to 200, Namibia you'll need 250 hrs with IFR. No work permit req just rock up as a tourist, so if things dont work out in Aus this year give Africa a thought for late next year.
For Botswana you really need to be there late december to stand a chance, they prefer 250 hrs to 200, Namibia you'll need 250 hrs with IFR. No work permit req just rock up as a tourist, so if things dont work out in Aus this year give Africa a thought for late next year.
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I got my CPL last year in May and for the rest of the year did a few subjects and my IR. From the day I got my CPL I kept in touch with an operator I knew in the Northern Territory, It was just a matter of waiting for a position to come up and one did. I had 201.1 hours when I started on Dec. 18 last year and now have around 230. We do about 450 hours per year each, roughly 200 twin, 250 single. Not heaps of hours but I was happy to get staright onto a twin, like someone mentioned before, knowing people and knowing whos coming and going can go along way, and if you plan it right a job may be yours, the jobs are out there.
