first job blues
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first job blues
I've heard some real horror stories of the conditions that first time pilots have had to endure; some had to clean the CP's house and take his kids to school (without pay) before even being employed.
Is this the norm or are such stories over exaggerated and only account for a small minority? do most pilots have to offer their cleaning services before they get a look in?
let's hear some other stories regarding first time pilot exploitation.
Is this the norm or are such stories over exaggerated and only account for a small minority? do most pilots have to offer their cleaning services before they get a look in?
let's hear some other stories regarding first time pilot exploitation.
Wouldn't we be better off discouraging this type of activity then talking about it like it is the norm.
Maybe a thread about who is currently asked to do these sorts of activities with no remuneration, and that might discourage both people asking newbies to do it and newbies believing it is there place in life to do it unrewarded.
Maybe a thread about who is currently asked to do these sorts of activities with no remuneration, and that might discourage both people asking newbies to do it and newbies believing it is there place in life to do it unrewarded.
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I agree Renuurp. Problem is there will always be some sap that will buck the system and prostitue him/herself with the hope of rapid advancement. Like it or not. Tis the world we live in. And what makes it worse is that there are operators that foster this ****. This has been done to death on here. Word to the wise, DON"T!! Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile. At least you'll have your self respect. 
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To my dismay this problem is getting worse. Old aeroplanes, only paid when you fly, cleaning toilets, verbal abuse, treating pilots like dirt is becoming the norm. Unfortunately those practicing this behaviour have not managed to get far in aviation and are normally bitter disgruntled individuals who could not make it into the airlines. They of course have all sorts of excuses for not making it to where they would like to be.
In the short time that I have been in the industry it appears their backgrounds are made up of early high school exit and those who entered aviation late.
This is the same lot crying a shortage of pilots and students, hoping to attract more students to their flying schools. If the truth be known, there is no shortage of pilots, however the lack of students indicate that the wannabes have worked out that, aviation is not worth it and low pay, dreadful working conditions lie ahead for the majority of pilots entering this field.
Captain high beware.
In the short time that I have been in the industry it appears their backgrounds are made up of early high school exit and those who entered aviation late.
This is the same lot crying a shortage of pilots and students, hoping to attract more students to their flying schools. If the truth be known, there is no shortage of pilots, however the lack of students indicate that the wannabes have worked out that, aviation is not worth it and low pay, dreadful working conditions lie ahead for the majority of pilots entering this field.
Captain high beware.
Not sure where NAME and SHAME would lead. Possibly a locked thread?
Unfortunate we can't rid the industry of these types whilst at the same time helping the good ones.
Unfortunate we can't rid the industry of these types whilst at the same time helping the good ones.
Last edited by RENURPP; 12th Oct 2006 at 10:38.
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Yeah, it is tough at the bottom, but I am sure it was tougher 10 yrs ago when I was there.
The difference now is instead of 3 people willing to blow the the boss for an hr in the Chieftain, now there is only one - and his flying is as good as his blowing?
I actually envy the 24yr olds with 300hrs looking for that first job in 2006/7 because let me tell you, the industry for those looking for work is about as good as it's gonna ever get, at the moment.
Go for it I say, and in 10 yrs when you are having a few coldies with an old crusty like me, I bet my arse is hurting more than yours due to abuse without lube - "that makes it your shout"?
The difference now is instead of 3 people willing to blow the the boss for an hr in the Chieftain, now there is only one - and his flying is as good as his blowing?
I actually envy the 24yr olds with 300hrs looking for that first job in 2006/7 because let me tell you, the industry for those looking for work is about as good as it's gonna ever get, at the moment.
Go for it I say, and in 10 yrs when you are having a few coldies with an old crusty like me, I bet my arse is hurting more than yours due to abuse without lube - "that makes it your shout"?
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So, from the replies, it does seem that these sort of conditions are rampant in the aviaiton industry.
What recourse is available for newbie pilots, if any?. I'm sure that this wouldn't be tolerated in any other industry.
At the risk of sounding naieve, isn't there some kind of government protection against such exploitation? I'm sure there would be many disgruntled ex employees who report such operators.
What recourse is available for newbie pilots, if any?. I'm sure that this wouldn't be tolerated in any other industry.
At the risk of sounding naieve, isn't there some kind of government protection against such exploitation? I'm sure there would be many disgruntled ex employees who report such operators.
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What goes around comes around, and people who play god games with newbies might one day find themselves asking them for a job. It's not that big an industry and word gets around. I can think of one very funny but sad instance when an ex CP got caught out later and just couldn't figure out why. Be friendly, helpful and if the boss is a clown, move on because most operators understand the importance of taking care of staff.
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I would rather be starting in the industry with the movement that is apprent.
The only reason an operator can do these horrible things to you is, if you let them. Vote with your feet, there are many many good operators out there, find them.
Do not work for free, under any circumstance, good luck.
The only reason an operator can do these horrible things to you is, if you let them. Vote with your feet, there are many many good operators out there, find them.
Do not work for free, under any circumstance, good luck.
Seasonally Adjusted
Agree with you on that point LRT, nobody forces a newbie to clean toilets and drive the CP's kids to school. It's their choice and they shouldn't complain if they prostitute themselves in this fashion. I'm not condoning this type of behaviour, but if nobody took on this form of 'employment' then these clowns wouldn't have a business.
Not too sure about that theory novicef, most of the individuals I have met over the years, who behave in the manner you speak of, couldn't give a fat rats about the airlines.
Unfortunately those practicing this behaviour have not managed to get far in aviation and are normally bitter disgruntled individuals who could not make it into the airlines.
How about initials and aerodrome code?
Newbies will pick up on that pretty quick methinks and it's better than nothing!
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No name and shame...if you young guys haven't got the strength of your convictions why do you expect D&G to do it for you.
As someone said above...the industry doesn't get better than this....and it doesn't stay this good indefinately.
As someone said above...the industry doesn't get better than this....and it doesn't stay this good indefinately.
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I was exploited....and Ill never be the same...
...it goes like this.....One day I called the CP and said boss ...cant come to work today...have a tummy ache.....CP says...pakeha-boy...when I have a tummy ache ,I go to the misses and ask for sex and after that ask for a big breakfast.....maybe you should try that PB... you will feel so much better and then you will come and fly ......PB says....ok boss Ill try that!!!
About 2 hours later PB calls his CP and says boss...I tried what you said and I feel alot better,so I,m coming to work to fly.....the CP says ..see PB I told you it would work ,now get to work........PB says ...thanks boss,..by the way you have a nice house!!
Talk about exploited...it just aint fair!!!
...it goes like this.....One day I called the CP and said boss ...cant come to work today...have a tummy ache.....CP says...pakeha-boy...when I have a tummy ache ,I go to the misses and ask for sex and after that ask for a big breakfast.....maybe you should try that PB... you will feel so much better and then you will come and fly ......PB says....ok boss Ill try that!!!
About 2 hours later PB calls his CP and says boss...I tried what you said and I feel alot better,so I,m coming to work to fly.....the CP says ..see PB I told you it would work ,now get to work........PB says ...thanks boss,..by the way you have a nice house!!
Talk about exploited...it just aint fair!!!
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Hey BONEY, is that how you got to fly the Chieftain all the time
No wonder you didn't let me near it. Oh well luckly you had 2 days off a week thats how I got into it, and without prostituting myself....too much 
What was the bosses saying about a pilots best attribute: the ability for him to grab his ankles.
Hope all is going well.
2C1SD
No wonder you didn't let me near it.
Oh well luckly you had 2 days off a week thats how I got into it, and without prostituting myself....too much What was the bosses saying about a pilots best attribute: the ability for him to grab his ankles.
Hope all is going well.
2C1SD
I think there is a fine line between "helping" out your Boss and company and being exploited by that company. I for one am going through the first job saga, and have managed to find 2 operators who are great to work for. (Casual, paid per flying hour). They do expect a professional job to be done- and that all duties associated with the flight (cleaning aircraft, organising passengers at destination etc....) are included in the hourly rate. By the same token- any extra work above and beyond the flight is either compensated for or not expected full stop. As my employers have really helped me out I have DECIDED to do extra things with no renumeration- but it has been my choice.
I feel sorry for the young pilots who are put in the position of "do this for free- or you can forget about flying my aircraft".
I echo those who are saying the industry is in a relatively good position. Anyone who says that there are no jobs out there full stop is kidding themselves. I was as green as they come and have managed to get 2 positions-1 at the local airport to home.
I feel sorry for the young pilots who are put in the position of "do this for free- or you can forget about flying my aircraft".
I echo those who are saying the industry is in a relatively good position. Anyone who says that there are no jobs out there full stop is kidding themselves. I was as green as they come and have managed to get 2 positions-1 at the local airport to home.
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Part of the problem is the "well back in my day" attitude of some. Just because some CP had to clean hangars/aircraft/houses etc for free when they were starting out in the industry, is not justification to expect others to do the same.
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novicef wrote
aren't we talking about chief pilots here?
i think the belief that the CP of a GA organisation is a frustrated airline pilot is part of the problem. if you are willing to stereotype chief pilots why wouldn't they treat you like a clown?
if you sit there and do nothing except whinge on PPRUNE maybe they're right.....
Unfortunately those practicing this behaviour have not managed to get far in aviation and are normally bitter disgruntled individuals who could not make it into the airlines.
aren't we talking about chief pilots here?
i think the belief that the CP of a GA organisation is a frustrated airline pilot is part of the problem. if you are willing to stereotype chief pilots why wouldn't they treat you like a clown?
if you sit there and do nothing except whinge on PPRUNE maybe they're right.....
