Ascots plans to shut down Jandakot: Murray Shire minutes
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Bloggsie,
They did not buy Jandakot. The airport remains property of the federal government. They took over the lease to operate it as an airport in accordance with the master plan signed by the Minister. However as they know, for them to continue to purport that they actually own the field will give them more credibility to the general public.
The safety concerns are merely a distraction. Lets not beat around the bush here, Ascot want to move Jandakot for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money. You only have to hear what occurs at one of the consultation meetings to quickly realize they do not have a clue about anything to do with aviation safety, aircraft operations or running an airport.
Their thin veneer of deceipt is well and truly being peeled back to the point now where even people not working in the industry know what a pack of untruths and deception the Arid consultancy is pedaliing. The good thing for us is that they have actually put themselves on the public record and been easily proven to be the liars that they are.
So they bought JT in Jan
The safety concerns are merely a distraction. Lets not beat around the bush here, Ascot want to move Jandakot for one reason and one reason only and that is to make money. You only have to hear what occurs at one of the consultation meetings to quickly realize they do not have a clue about anything to do with aviation safety, aircraft operations or running an airport.
Their thin veneer of deceipt is well and truly being peeled back to the point now where even people not working in the industry know what a pack of untruths and deception the Arid consultancy is pedaliing. The good thing for us is that they have actually put themselves on the public record and been easily proven to be the liars that they are.
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So on top of my already decent drive to get to Jandakot now, they're expecting me to add another 80 mins round trip to my daily journey?
Way to go.
Developer gets involved with Jandakot airport, posing as someone who knows about such things as aviation.
Developer says "We never intended to develop Jandakot".
A year later, plans come out of the blue to relocate Jandakot, and develop the area because they think there's a buck in it.
Who would have thunk?
Way to go.
Developer gets involved with Jandakot airport, posing as someone who knows about such things as aviation.
Developer says "We never intended to develop Jandakot".
A year later, plans come out of the blue to relocate Jandakot, and develop the area because they think there's a buck in it.
Who would have thunk?
http://www.jandakotairportrelocation.org.au/
Unlike their "consultant's" website, this page CAN be displayed!!!
Unlike their "consultant's" website, this page CAN be displayed!!!
Existing over flying traffic does cause wake turbulence issues within the JT CTA, as evident by the ATIS when 03 is in use.
The intensity of the Airbus A380 wake turbulence vortex core is less than the 747-400 or other larger military types previously operated into YPPH. The lower intensity vortex core would cause smaller rolling moments if encountered by GA aircraft. The actual core area is slightly larger than the 747-400, the main reason for increasing separation distances when following in approach.
In terms of holding, radar vectors, or other terminal operations, no additional separation has been recommended for the Airbus A380. The Airbus A380 is not causing any new issues for JT.
As for the RFDS, they have been look at jet aircraft similar to what is presently flying from JT.
The proposed relocation of the existing airport is solely for redevelopment of the airport into residential and industrial application at the expense of the small business owners at the airport and at the health detriment of rural and regional members of our community that rely on the RFDS.
"- at the health detriment of rural and regional members of our community that rely on the RFDS"
And Angel Flight.
And Angel Flight.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Sunday Times - 01 Oct (the lies continue)
"Jandakot Unsafe"
by Nick Taylor
I have it on good authority also that the consulting company being used to lie to - I mean provide the public consultation are NOT accredited to do so. Judging by the crap they have been putting out I can understand why they wouldn't have accreditation.
The term "taking a water pistol to a gunfight" rings a bell.
by Nick Taylor
The new owners of Jandakot Airport - one of Australia's busiest - want to rebuild it near Mandurah.
The company said safety was the main reason for building a new airport in North Dandalup.
Property developer Ascot Capital, which bought Jandakot Airport Holdings for $43.5 million in January, expects a backlash from Jandakot users who want to stay and North Dandalup residents who don't want an airport in their back yard.
The Company has talked with Federal and Sate governments about the long -term future of the airport.
Ascot Capital said overlapping airspace between Jandakot and Pert international airports was a safety issue, with 75 reported air-space violation incidents.
Jandakot would have to shut whenever a new large A380 aircraft flew into Perth because the planes would need twice the present 500ft buffer zone between airspaces.
Ascot Capital said jandkaot would not be able to cope with the predicted increase in airport traffic. It already handled up to 410,000 flights a year.
There is growning demand from Singapore and South China based airlines. They use Jandakot for pilot traininig.
Ascot Capital director Greg King said: "We know the issue is emotive, but we would like to have a sensible conversation with all parties"
He did not want the plan judged soley on safey. "People must draw their own conclusions from the facts". he said "Safety is sacrosanct. Any violation of air space is one too many.
"We say: would Perth and jandakot be more efficient and safer if Jandakot was relocated - the answer is yes."
A plan released in January, would allow a fourth runway to be built, but Ascot Capital said such expansion would have to be judged on economics of the operation.
A Murray Shire spokesman said there had been contact and the company was consulting with North Dandalup residents.
If the airport moved there, it would be leased backt othe the Federal Government and Ascot Capital would redevelop Jandkot as a commercial and residential area.
The company said safety was the main reason for building a new airport in North Dandalup.
Property developer Ascot Capital, which bought Jandakot Airport Holdings for $43.5 million in January, expects a backlash from Jandakot users who want to stay and North Dandalup residents who don't want an airport in their back yard.
The Company has talked with Federal and Sate governments about the long -term future of the airport.
Ascot Capital said overlapping airspace between Jandakot and Pert international airports was a safety issue, with 75 reported air-space violation incidents.
Jandakot would have to shut whenever a new large A380 aircraft flew into Perth because the planes would need twice the present 500ft buffer zone between airspaces.
Ascot Capital said jandkaot would not be able to cope with the predicted increase in airport traffic. It already handled up to 410,000 flights a year.
There is growning demand from Singapore and South China based airlines. They use Jandakot for pilot traininig.
Ascot Capital director Greg King said: "We know the issue is emotive, but we would like to have a sensible conversation with all parties"
He did not want the plan judged soley on safey. "People must draw their own conclusions from the facts". he said "Safety is sacrosanct. Any violation of air space is one too many.
"We say: would Perth and jandakot be more efficient and safer if Jandakot was relocated - the answer is yes."
A plan released in January, would allow a fourth runway to be built, but Ascot Capital said such expansion would have to be judged on economics of the operation.
A Murray Shire spokesman said there had been contact and the company was consulting with North Dandalup residents.
If the airport moved there, it would be leased backt othe the Federal Government and Ascot Capital would redevelop Jandkot as a commercial and residential area.
I have it on good authority also that the consulting company being used to lie to - I mean provide the public consultation are NOT accredited to do so. Judging by the crap they have been putting out I can understand why they wouldn't have accreditation.
The term "taking a water pistol to a gunfight" rings a bell.
Ypjt???
Thanks 'Clare' for that most informative link!
I sincerely trust that the appropriate people will give the appropriate result - soon!
And further, that you or your colleagues will keep us all posted - but without 'giving away anything' of course.
AND A HEARTY CONGRATS to those who collaborated to produce that submission!!!
WELL DONE!!!
Regards,
Ex FSO Griffo
I sincerely trust that the appropriate people will give the appropriate result - soon!
And further, that you or your colleagues will keep us all posted - but without 'giving away anything' of course.
AND A HEARTY CONGRATS to those who collaborated to produce that submission!!!
WELL DONE!!!
Regards,
Ex FSO Griffo
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Griffo I can assure you the cat is now very much amongst the pigeons.
There is much unecessary and real financial distress and personal anguish for the tenants and stakeholders whilst these guys play their dumb games.
This will be stopped.
Watch this space and the website.
There is much unecessary and real financial distress and personal anguish for the tenants and stakeholders whilst these guys play their dumb games.
This will be stopped.
Watch this space and the website.
land swap?
Do I have this right?
It's my understanding that they are going to buy up a parcel of land in the south (Dandalup?) and 'swap' their freehold with the government for the freehold of the land at Jandakot.
Is this how they intend to get past the 'purpose for use' restriction of the current leasehold?
Apologies for asking the obvious question!
It's my understanding that they are going to buy up a parcel of land in the south (Dandalup?) and 'swap' their freehold with the government for the freehold of the land at Jandakot.
Is this how they intend to get past the 'purpose for use' restriction of the current leasehold?
Apologies for asking the obvious question!
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It's my understanding that they are going to buy up a parcel of land in the south (Dandalup?) and 'swap' their freehold with the government for the freehold of the land at Jandakot.
and they have already optioned the land down south, problem is they do not have a freehold at Jandakot just the balance of a 99 year (maybe another 89 years) lease and nobody at Jandakot nor any of the Shires down south are interested. They don't seem to understand that they will have to compensate the Feds for the difference in the value of Jandakot as no longer an airport and the value of whatever they offer swap.
That by most estimates would be way over a billion dollars they would have to pay the Feds.
The other problem they have to overcome is that the Feds will have to have a public tender or something like it for the purchase of the Jandakot land as the Head lease does not give them pre-emptive rights on its purchase.
In the meantime they are conducting a public consultation process for the "relocation" which appears to a "requirement" for Federal Govt approval, problem is there is no such move by the Feds, it is an unsolicited proposal which looks like it is solicited.
Meantime whilst they are flogging the dead neddy, the tenants and businesses at Jandakot are suffering real financial distress and unable to plan the future of their businesses.
So tell me again about the benefits of privatising national infrastructure assets.
Gaunty,
Perhaps you have forgotten but the tone and content of your contributions to the old thread "Bankstown operators annoy me" was to defend their right to profit and to critque people at Bankstown for not following the Jandakot example.
You confuse me!
Perhaps you have forgotten but the tone and content of your contributions to the old thread "Bankstown operators annoy me" was to defend their right to profit and to critque people at Bankstown for not following the Jandakot example.
You confuse me!
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Scion
Oh you mean here,
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209587
Yeah well events have a way of surprising you dont they. At time the announcement was only days old, we had not yet met them nor had they revealed their hand.
No matter as it is now apparent that their blandishments about the future then are as now pure and unadulterated horsefeathers.
They had signed off on the 2005 Master Plan as a condiiton of the transfer of the lease and as part of their mandatory obligation to the Commonwealth AND the tenants. A Master Plan that had been through the consultation process with the tenants AND the Chamber.
It is this Master Plan that they have repudiated and in fact deny having read thoroughly AND "only signed as part of the "formalities" surrounding the lease assignment"
HOWEVER were we not already organised as a Chamber and already "blooded" by previous negotiations with these types, their subsequent volte face and behaviour would have had the tenants like chickens LOCKED in the cage with the fox.
To say that the new owners are surprised at the strength, organisation and political influence of the Chamber would be an understatement.
Having said that we recognise and have told them so that they have a right to a reasonable return on their investment in the airport as an airport. Any development activities on that part of the airport that is designated for development over some 100 hectares is part of the Master Plan and approved by us asit brings more business closer to the airport AND badly needed road and utilities infrastructure.
We are in the process of laying down a process of valuation for lease negotiations that will stop them playing off one tenant against another.
There are a whole bunch of things we expect will come out of this untidy imbroglio that will sort out all the secondary aiprort issue once and for all.
I cannot say here what we plan to do as there are a number of steps yet to be played out, but it is our hope that the Minister will in the end have to make a stand and define once and for all the obligations of the airport owners to their leases and tenants. The Commonwealth do have the rights to determine the leases if it is necessary.
Oh you mean here,
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209587
Yeah well events have a way of surprising you dont they. At time the announcement was only days old, we had not yet met them nor had they revealed their hand.
No matter as it is now apparent that their blandishments about the future then are as now pure and unadulterated horsefeathers.
They had signed off on the 2005 Master Plan as a condiiton of the transfer of the lease and as part of their mandatory obligation to the Commonwealth AND the tenants. A Master Plan that had been through the consultation process with the tenants AND the Chamber.
It is this Master Plan that they have repudiated and in fact deny having read thoroughly AND "only signed as part of the "formalities" surrounding the lease assignment"
HOWEVER were we not already organised as a Chamber and already "blooded" by previous negotiations with these types, their subsequent volte face and behaviour would have had the tenants like chickens LOCKED in the cage with the fox.
To say that the new owners are surprised at the strength, organisation and political influence of the Chamber would be an understatement.
Having said that we recognise and have told them so that they have a right to a reasonable return on their investment in the airport as an airport. Any development activities on that part of the airport that is designated for development over some 100 hectares is part of the Master Plan and approved by us asit brings more business closer to the airport AND badly needed road and utilities infrastructure.
We are in the process of laying down a process of valuation for lease negotiations that will stop them playing off one tenant against another.
There are a whole bunch of things we expect will come out of this untidy imbroglio that will sort out all the secondary aiprort issue once and for all.
I cannot say here what we plan to do as there are a number of steps yet to be played out, but it is our hope that the Minister will in the end have to make a stand and define once and for all the obligations of the airport owners to their leases and tenants. The Commonwealth do have the rights to determine the leases if it is necessary.
"Hats off for trying boys, you convinced the government to win a competitive tender for the lease of a product".
There was no competitive tender. If there had been, then there are others able and qualified to take over the lease but they couldn't get a look in as it was never "on the market" or out to tender. I doubt we would have this situation if there had been a proper tender procedure particularly as by thier own admission they have no avation experience or expertise whatsoever. There has not even been an airport manager in place since June.
Ascot Capital bought out the company Jandakot Airport Holdings who held the lease. Therefore the "airport-lessee company" never actually changed and they still operate under the same lease that was "won" by the previous owners of JAH. So they snuck in through a loophole.
There was no competitive tender. If there had been, then there are others able and qualified to take over the lease but they couldn't get a look in as it was never "on the market" or out to tender. I doubt we would have this situation if there had been a proper tender procedure particularly as by thier own admission they have no avation experience or expertise whatsoever. There has not even been an airport manager in place since June.
Ascot Capital bought out the company Jandakot Airport Holdings who held the lease. Therefore the "airport-lessee company" never actually changed and they still operate under the same lease that was "won" by the previous owners of JAH. So they snuck in through a loophole.
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Consultant Accreditation?
Islander,
What type of accreditiation are you talking about?
If you are referring to airport cunsultancy there is only one type of approval for airport consultants and that only relates to the ability to inspect registered and "certain other" aerodromes under CASR 139.
If its an accreditation realting to something other than airports then I humbly withdraw.
LF
What type of accreditiation are you talking about?
If you are referring to airport cunsultancy there is only one type of approval for airport consultants and that only relates to the ability to inspect registered and "certain other" aerodromes under CASR 139.
If its an accreditation realting to something other than airports then I humbly withdraw.
LF
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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The "independant" company "contracted" to do the "consultation" with tenants and stakeholders is not a member of the Australian Market and Social Research Society. They are so "independant" they even share an office and telephone number with JAH!!
Thier job is to disseminate misinformation on behalf of JAH. They pretend they are there to listen, all warm and fuzzy, but when errors in their documents are pointed out they take no notice and continue to disseminate the same old nonsense in the hope that somewhere, somehow, they might find someone stupid enough to believe it, maybe they are being paid per convert, who knows.
Thier job is to disseminate misinformation on behalf of JAH. They pretend they are there to listen, all warm and fuzzy, but when errors in their documents are pointed out they take no notice and continue to disseminate the same old nonsense in the hope that somewhere, somehow, they might find someone stupid enough to believe it, maybe they are being paid per convert, who knows.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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And the latest quote (cockup) from the consulting firm hired to conduct the "independent consultation".
In last weeks Canning Times newspaper Leigh Hardingham from Arid Consulting is quoted as saying the move would be good for aviation. So much for her independence and unbiased approach in this.
Why don't they just come clean and admit what the rest of us with 2 brain cells to rub together already know.... They are a PR machine for JAH and Ascot Capital.
In last weeks Canning Times newspaper Leigh Hardingham from Arid Consulting is quoted as saying the move would be good for aviation. So much for her independence and unbiased approach in this.
Why don't they just come clean and admit what the rest of us with 2 brain cells to rub together already know.... They are a PR machine for JAH and Ascot Capital.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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sorry to keep dragging this one back to the top.
Well well, looks like Ascot Capital have an even angrier crowd than Jandakot operators to deal with. If last nights meeting was any indication of the lack of support for this little venture I'd say the developers are trying to push the proverbial uphill with a sharp stick.
It was good to see those in the community not necessarily up to speed with the particulars of aviation safety, airspace management etc being very attuned the fact that Ascot have perhaps "guilded the lilly" a little in their attempts to sway opinion in their favour.
Well well, looks like Ascot Capital have an even angrier crowd than Jandakot operators to deal with. If last nights meeting was any indication of the lack of support for this little venture I'd say the developers are trying to push the proverbial uphill with a sharp stick.
It was good to see those in the community not necessarily up to speed with the particulars of aviation safety, airspace management etc being very attuned the fact that Ascot have perhaps "guilded the lilly" a little in their attempts to sway opinion in their favour.
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I understand that neither Don Randall MP for Canning, nor the representatives of Ascot/JAH, nor even their "independent" consultants engaged in "community consultation" even bothered to appear at that meeting in Mandurah....