Flight tests - does everyone pass them?
Sprucegoose
Join Date: Sep 2000
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I have in my log book 5.8 hours of torture for my CPL flight test, you guessed it for a FAIL!!
Got it on the second go (much shorter at 2.4). The good old days of the CAA (not), I for one don't yearn for time when examiners failed pilots, 'because they could'.
Whilst I had to 'earn' my CPL, I must say the examiner exhibited no attributes which made me a safer pilot, nor any attitude that I would aspire to, either as a training captain or examiner.
Anyway sorry to digress AusFlygal, in answer to your question, all you need to do is go in with a positive attitude, demonstrate what you have learnt and the rest will take care of itself. If you do fail, don't worry many before you have suffered the same fate, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and give it another go. A fail in any element of your training will not hinder you in the future, potential employers will be more interested in how you 'overcome your setbacks', rather than the 'setbacks' themselves...
Good luck and let us know how you go!!
Got it on the second go (much shorter at 2.4). The good old days of the CAA (not), I for one don't yearn for time when examiners failed pilots, 'because they could'.
Whilst I had to 'earn' my CPL, I must say the examiner exhibited no attributes which made me a safer pilot, nor any attitude that I would aspire to, either as a training captain or examiner.
Anyway sorry to digress AusFlygal, in answer to your question, all you need to do is go in with a positive attitude, demonstrate what you have learnt and the rest will take care of itself. If you do fail, don't worry many before you have suffered the same fate, just pick yourself up, dust yourself off and give it another go. A fail in any element of your training will not hinder you in the future, potential employers will be more interested in how you 'overcome your setbacks', rather than the 'setbacks' themselves...
Good luck and let us know how you go!!
Grandpa Aerotart
PB Max would be in his mid 80s if he is still around. He was a P40 pilot in PNG and was the Meteor pilot who failed to shoot down the Auster off Sydney when his cannons jammed, in the mid 50s. Col Roffe would be at least as old having been a C47 pilot during and after WW2.
I hold no malice towards them...they were products of their era and maintained the standards the only way they knew how.
I think the ATO system leaves a lot to be desired...a return to staff examiners would be no bad thing....if CASA could attract the right type of individual
I hold no malice towards them...they were products of their era and maintained the standards the only way they knew how.
I think the ATO system leaves a lot to be desired...a return to staff examiners would be no bad thing....if CASA could attract the right type of individual
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Never failed a flight test in more than 30 years of on /off flying. And this was back in the good old days when you had to do one every 6 months. Had ole' Col Roffe for initial IFR test and used a bit of nous as I heard through the grape vine that he liked to get back to BK for lunch. Used this information and didn't stuff up too much and passed , much to everyone's chagrin. Not trying to boast, just stating a fact although, there are a few occasions where I would have failed myself but I guess the examiner didn't see or saw something else.
Not flying much at the moment, I'm not prepared to accept the crappy wages and conditions on offer in GA, Too old for airlines.
Not flying much at the moment, I'm not prepared to accept the crappy wages and conditions on offer in GA, Too old for airlines.
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Ah this brings back fond memories!
I did my C Cat Instructors Rating during a stint in NZ.
The departmental testing officer was one Harold B....... A man with a fearful reputation. People used to wear t-shirts that read "I too have been failed by Harold B......!"
My test day started about 09:30 with long and short briefings, had an early lunch and then went flying for a couple of hours and then filled out the afternoon with a prolonged oral on Principles of Flight.
At 16:55 he said "Well, that was successful"! and we spent the next 30 minutes in a debrief.
Up to that point I had no idea whether or not I had failed in the first 5 minutes. Not a hint of feedback for more than 7 hrs.
However, in fairness to Harold B......, I must tell the other side of the story. He once tested and failed a CPL candidate maybe 3 times before writing on the file "this candidate should never be issued with a CPL - displays a complete lack of logical decision making". The individual in question when to another part of NZ away from HB's jurisdiction and was put up for another test, at which they passed.
Before the ink was dry on the licence, this new CPL was dead - along with 4 or 5 passengers in a "VFR flight continued into IFR conditions".
Its more than 20 years ago so I may not have all the details correct - but the guts of the story is there.
R
I did my C Cat Instructors Rating during a stint in NZ.
The departmental testing officer was one Harold B....... A man with a fearful reputation. People used to wear t-shirts that read "I too have been failed by Harold B......!"
My test day started about 09:30 with long and short briefings, had an early lunch and then went flying for a couple of hours and then filled out the afternoon with a prolonged oral on Principles of Flight.
At 16:55 he said "Well, that was successful"! and we spent the next 30 minutes in a debrief.
Up to that point I had no idea whether or not I had failed in the first 5 minutes. Not a hint of feedback for more than 7 hrs.
However, in fairness to Harold B......, I must tell the other side of the story. He once tested and failed a CPL candidate maybe 3 times before writing on the file "this candidate should never be issued with a CPL - displays a complete lack of logical decision making". The individual in question when to another part of NZ away from HB's jurisdiction and was put up for another test, at which they passed.
Before the ink was dry on the licence, this new CPL was dead - along with 4 or 5 passengers in a "VFR flight continued into IFR conditions".
Its more than 20 years ago so I may not have all the details correct - but the guts of the story is there.
R
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"You take the Mosquito in your left hand and the pilot's manual in your right hand - and you figure out how to make it work"
R
Last edited by Ratshit; 23rd Sep 2006 at 05:19.
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Join Date: Feb 2000
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CC ...yeah mate..take back all I said about the bloke.....and would show the man my respect....like you say ..different era,s etc etc....the "modern era" has produced it own ..lets say...."difficult" instructors....but I stand by my remark about setting the tone....everybody passes until they fail themselves....being a pro-active check pilot,instuctor will produce a pro-active performance..its good for everybody...PB
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I got all my licences in Perth in the early 80s. Only failed the Cpl once. From memory ALL the Department examiners were ex RAAF. Some were good, some had the "civies should not be flying" attitude, including the chief examiner who had a volcanic temper. Now what was his name?
I've gone through in the last 10 years and confirm people do still fail, i'm one of them! After spending about 3 hours being grilled by the ATO on questions for the CPL off we went. After about 3 hours I was exhausted and he started to grill me about where the homestead was, I lost it and said I don't know...ok you've failed, as I mutted those words I said there it is, but I said I didn't know, and that was it.
Did everything else ok but still went back, and had to go and do another whole nav, to finally get the pass. I was doing my flying as a solo student, and I was amazing how solo payers were getting 3-4 hour CPL flightests and the students on the courses were getting at times 2.6s. Even a few instructors at the time had a go at the ATO and said why do you seem to expect such a higher standard out of the 'standard' students than the one on the courses. It was a pain but I guess you know you really earned it as well.
Also failed my 2nd renewal, tried to do it without a flight beforehand and just wasn't up to speed with the engine failures etc. So it does happen! I've been told by ATOs that if they don't fail a certain percent that CASA can begin to question them and may start doing 'ride alongs' to ensure that they are not being overly generous.
Did everything else ok but still went back, and had to go and do another whole nav, to finally get the pass. I was doing my flying as a solo student, and I was amazing how solo payers were getting 3-4 hour CPL flightests and the students on the courses were getting at times 2.6s. Even a few instructors at the time had a go at the ATO and said why do you seem to expect such a higher standard out of the 'standard' students than the one on the courses. It was a pain but I guess you know you really earned it as well.
Also failed my 2nd renewal, tried to do it without a flight beforehand and just wasn't up to speed with the engine failures etc. So it does happen! I've been told by ATOs that if they don't fail a certain percent that CASA can begin to question them and may start doing 'ride alongs' to ensure that they are not being overly generous.
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Before my CPL flight test a few years ago I heard both sides of the story; 'he's a pr!ck that will fail you for anything' from other students who had failed to 'he realises your gonna be nervous and isn't out to fail you' from the instructors.
I found the latter to be the case, it was all over in 3 hours. I believe nerves bring a lot of test candidates undone, just do what you were taught and you'll be right.
I found the latter to be the case, it was all over in 3 hours. I believe nerves bring a lot of test candidates undone, just do what you were taught and you'll be right
.
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Hi,
given that this thread has the potential for many to learn from - here is my story.
I have held a licence to fly fixed wing for over 30 years, over 20 of them in the Commercial or higher Category. I also hold rotary wing qualifications at the Commerical category as well. I have endorsements on 12 different twin engine aircraft and over 4,000 hours in the logbooks. So this comes from a bit of experience.
According to my logbooks I have passed all required flight tests at the first attempt, and the early ones were with those well known individuals mentioned earlier in this thread - such as 'Come again Col" etc.
One of my first instructors - now flying as a Senior Check for QF told me that flight tests are not much different to any other flight - provided you fly each flight to a high personal standard. He told me this is the key.....everything becomes 'standard' for you so when you have to perform during the test, it is nothing new for you.
Another instructor told me that to prepare for a test, it begins about 3 weeks before the actual test itself. Go through everything on the test form yourself, if you can't do it or don't know it - go away and practice it or learn it. He said that they can't do anything else than what is on the form. He also said that if you are personally not ready for the test - delay it until you are.
I have just completed my 24th MECIR renewal. The first 2 were with DCA/CAA and few others were with CAA/CASA FOIs because of the position that I held in a flying school. I applied this same approach to all of them and have not had a problem. The same went for ME training approval.
My Grade 1 instructor test lasted over 8 hours from commencement to signoff. This was with a CAA FOI and there was a considerable ground component on top of the required briefings. I delayed that on two occasions because I wasn't ready - not the other way around.
I hope to continue this approach to flight tests - there is nothing mystical about them - provided you approach them the right way. I still fly for a living, but not as often as I like - but my current job has me in contact with Aviation every day.
So the message is - YOU are in control of when you take the test - make sure that YOU are ready and then take the test. Preparation is the key and that starts well before the test and most of it does not involve being in an aircraft - you can do a lot of it in a lounge chair at home.
Hope this helps someone pass a test.....
Tinkicker
given that this thread has the potential for many to learn from - here is my story.
I have held a licence to fly fixed wing for over 30 years, over 20 of them in the Commercial or higher Category. I also hold rotary wing qualifications at the Commerical category as well. I have endorsements on 12 different twin engine aircraft and over 4,000 hours in the logbooks. So this comes from a bit of experience.
According to my logbooks I have passed all required flight tests at the first attempt, and the early ones were with those well known individuals mentioned earlier in this thread - such as 'Come again Col" etc.
One of my first instructors - now flying as a Senior Check for QF told me that flight tests are not much different to any other flight - provided you fly each flight to a high personal standard. He told me this is the key.....everything becomes 'standard' for you so when you have to perform during the test, it is nothing new for you.
Another instructor told me that to prepare for a test, it begins about 3 weeks before the actual test itself. Go through everything on the test form yourself, if you can't do it or don't know it - go away and practice it or learn it. He said that they can't do anything else than what is on the form. He also said that if you are personally not ready for the test - delay it until you are.
I have just completed my 24th MECIR renewal. The first 2 were with DCA/CAA and few others were with CAA/CASA FOIs because of the position that I held in a flying school. I applied this same approach to all of them and have not had a problem. The same went for ME training approval.
My Grade 1 instructor test lasted over 8 hours from commencement to signoff. This was with a CAA FOI and there was a considerable ground component on top of the required briefings. I delayed that on two occasions because I wasn't ready - not the other way around.
I hope to continue this approach to flight tests - there is nothing mystical about them - provided you approach them the right way. I still fly for a living, but not as often as I like - but my current job has me in contact with Aviation every day.
So the message is - YOU are in control of when you take the test - make sure that YOU are ready and then take the test. Preparation is the key and that starts well before the test and most of it does not involve being in an aircraft - you can do a lot of it in a lounge chair at home.
Hope this helps someone pass a test.....
Tinkicker
