Flight tests - does everyone pass them?
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Flight tests - does everyone pass them?
In the period leading up to getting my CPL and since then, I have spoken to a number of instructors about flight tests, standards and all the general stuff you ask about when you have a test looming - but then I noticed a familiar pattern emerging. I found that the general consensus among those who have been involved in aviation for a while (20+ years) is that no-one fails flight tests anymore - is that true?
I have to admit that I haven't met anyone yet that has failed a flight test (who will admit to it at least anyway) so I'm beginning to think that unfortunately they may be right. I would like to think that I worked hard for my CPL and that I earned it and deserve to have it. I shudder to think that those who have been around a while would have the opinion that my licence isn't worth the paper it is written on.
I look forward to getting your feedback.
I have to admit that I haven't met anyone yet that has failed a flight test (who will admit to it at least anyway) so I'm beginning to think that unfortunately they may be right. I would like to think that I worked hard for my CPL and that I earned it and deserve to have it. I shudder to think that those who have been around a while would have the opinion that my licence isn't worth the paper it is written on.
I look forward to getting your feedback.
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I have had friends fail the CPL flight test first time around, and I know many who passed first time. A good instructor won't put a candidate up for his/her test until he/she is satisfied that they will pass.
Having said that, I know of one instructor whose job was placed in jeopardy because he refused to pass a student who was below par.
Failing a test is not necessarily a bad thing. It can highlight particular areas that need attention, and therefore more training can be focussed on those deficiencies so that the next time, the student will be more confident, and therefore more likely to pass.
Remember, the only people who have never failed, are those who have never tried !
BW
Having said that, I know of one instructor whose job was placed in jeopardy because he refused to pass a student who was below par.
Failing a test is not necessarily a bad thing. It can highlight particular areas that need attention, and therefore more training can be focussed on those deficiencies so that the next time, the student will be more confident, and therefore more likely to pass.
Remember, the only people who have never failed, are those who have never tried !
BW
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I had two goes at my CPL flight test. The 1st flight was great, until i decided to stall the plane 1 foot above the runway on the LAST LANDING! Thus failed the test as it was deemed to be "unsafe". The retest was just 3 CCTS and I greased all of them....
GOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDD
CMN
GOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDD
CMN
Failed my CPL and IR first go around. Learnt from it and moved on. Having said that those tests were conducted when flight test were only done by the CAA or DCA as it was called then. I am of the firm opinion that when the CAA started allowing flying schools to do flight tests “in house”, the standards dropped considerably, to the point now that a CPL licence may as well have come out of a Corn Flakes packet. 
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It was probably the comment I made to him after , "I have done worse" that got him a tad worried
CMN
Grandpa Aerotart
Agree with 404.
I got all my licences and ratings via the good graces
of DCA/CAA examiners of airmen. Failed my initial UPPL flight test with 'Come again' Col Roffe and failed my initial Instructors Rating (in the briefing
) with Max 'the axe' Holdsworth. Passed both a week after the initial attempts.
These two individuals, among some others, looked for reasons to fail you...and sometimes failed you with no valid reason.
When old Max was listening to my long brief on stalling so was every member of my course and some of the Instructors from the other side of the partition. At the end of it Max said to prepare my short brief on something else while he went and organised 'transport'. When he had gone all my coursemates and the Instructors came in and congratulated me on 'nailing it'. Max came back and listened to my short brief which I also nailed...then he failed me and went back into Goulbourn st.
A week later, again with Max, but now my briefs were a mess from extreme nerves..rambling, talking to the white board etc...we flew and that went well...at the end he passed me with the comment "Young man you have a real talent for teaching". 
I passed both my CPL and initial Command Instrument Ratings first go.
EDIT: And first go on SCPL, ATPL and close to 30 renewals since.
I got all my licences and ratings via the good graces
of DCA/CAA examiners of airmen. Failed my initial UPPL flight test with 'Come again' Col Roffe and failed my initial Instructors Rating (in the briefing ) with Max 'the axe' Holdsworth. Passed both a week after the initial attempts.These two individuals, among some others, looked for reasons to fail you...and sometimes failed you with no valid reason.
When old Max was listening to my long brief on stalling so was every member of my course and some of the Instructors from the other side of the partition. At the end of it Max said to prepare my short brief on something else while he went and organised 'transport'. When he had gone all my coursemates and the Instructors came in and congratulated me on 'nailing it'. Max came back and listened to my short brief which I also nailed...then he failed me and went back into Goulbourn st.
A week later, again with Max, but now my briefs were a mess from extreme nerves..rambling, talking to the white board etc...we flew and that went well...at the end he passed me with the comment "Young man you have a real talent for teaching".
I passed both my CPL and initial Command Instrument Ratings first go.
EDIT: And first go on SCPL, ATPL and close to 30 renewals since.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 22nd Sep 2006 at 13:51.
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Failed Restricted PPL years ago when it was a CAA exam - That was with "Do-it-again" Mal, he used to fail 80% on their first go just because he could.
Passed Unrestricted PPL first go
Passed NVFR first go
Passed CPL first go
Passed MECIR first go
Depends a lot on who you get I suppose.
Passed Unrestricted PPL first go
Passed NVFR first go
Passed CPL first go
Passed MECIR first go
Depends a lot on who you get I suppose.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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I did much the same as 404Titan; Failed both CPL and initial IFR rating flight tests, but learned from the experience and moved on. Passed both on the subsequent attempts.
I can remember clearly the debrief after the IFR test which was flown on a 'shocker' of a day with very strong winds at altitude. The examiner told me that after he had informed me that I had 'blown it' on the NDB approach he saw me ''visibly relax'.'' We headed back to YPAD where he got me to do an ILS and said that I flew the whole approach 'one handed, yawning every minute or so and never got further than one dot off centre.'
Just shows what one can do if the nerves don't interfere!
I can remember clearly the debrief after the IFR test which was flown on a 'shocker' of a day with very strong winds at altitude. The examiner told me that after he had informed me that I had 'blown it' on the NDB approach he saw me ''visibly relax'.'' We headed back to YPAD where he got me to do an ILS and said that I flew the whole approach 'one handed, yawning every minute or so and never got further than one dot off centre.'
Just shows what one can do if the nerves don't interfere!
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Passed my CPL and IR first time in NZ...
Then after 4 years of operational flying I took 2 attempts to pass my UK CPL & IR
Same as previously said, learnt from it, and I take a completely different approach these days
Then after 4 years of operational flying I took 2 attempts to pass my UK CPL & IR
Same as previously said, learnt from it, and I take a completely different approach these days
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PPL - passed 1st go - Dept TO
NVFR - passed 1st go - ATO
CPL - passed 1st go - Dept TO
Instructors rating - passed 1st go - Dept TO
SECIR - passed 1st go - Dept TO
MECIR - bombed 1st go - Dept TO - passed 2nd go - Dept TO (getting old!)
20 MECIR renewals - bombed 2 first time around (when uncurrent) - passed on 2nd attempt - all ATOs
Never "been failed" - managed to fluck it up all on my own
Still hate renewals!
R
NVFR - passed 1st go - ATO
CPL - passed 1st go - Dept TO
Instructors rating - passed 1st go - Dept TO
SECIR - passed 1st go - Dept TO
MECIR - bombed 1st go - Dept TO - passed 2nd go - Dept TO (getting old!)
20 MECIR renewals - bombed 2 first time around (when uncurrent) - passed on 2nd attempt - all ATOs
Never "been failed" - managed to fluck it up all on my own
Still hate renewals!
R
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Testing Officer's pressure to fail
I passed all of my flight tests first go, except CPL. The funny thing is that I knew that I wouldn't stand much of a chance as a lot of my friends and colleagues had sat the CPL test before me and had all passed first go. This put pressure on the testing officer to fail the next candidate, me, so as to keep his reputation in tacked. My advice, sit the CPL test after a few failures
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Not ready, no test
I passed CPL in one go, CIR in one go, Inst rating in one go, FAILED on inst rating renewal.
Where I worked, there were few people failed on the CPL test.
But thing is, if you are not ready (if instructor think you are not gonna pass), then they are not supposed to put you on a flight test. The reason is, you will spend more money and time if you fail on the test because you can't go straight back to re-test, you have to have some extre training again before retest plus another testing fee. Also I heard that if a flying school have too many failed students, they are gonna get in trouble with CASA. That's why a school make sure you are ready to pass the test before put you on the test. So if all boxes are ticked you are not gonna fail on the test. That's maybe why not many people fails on the test.
Where I worked, there were few people failed on the CPL test.
But thing is, if you are not ready (if instructor think you are not gonna pass), then they are not supposed to put you on a flight test. The reason is, you will spend more money and time if you fail on the test because you can't go straight back to re-test, you have to have some extre training again before retest plus another testing fee. Also I heard that if a flying school have too many failed students, they are gonna get in trouble with CASA. That's why a school make sure you are ready to pass the test before put you on the test. So if all boxes are ticked you are not gonna fail on the test. That's maybe why not many people fails on the test.
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AUSFLYGAL..
''I found that the general consensus among those who have been involved in aviation for a while (20+ years) is that no-one fails flight tests anymore - is that true?''
not so...and i assume the situation there similar to here .
candidates DO fail...but happily the standard of instruction these days even in small flying clubs is good.
highest failure rates for me at any rate...not the CPL..nor the FIR..but the PPL..and the lapsed ( often for a medical reason )PPL among older aviators.
so do'nt assume.
.........keep doing the circuits....
''I found that the general consensus among those who have been involved in aviation for a while (20+ years) is that no-one fails flight tests anymore - is that true?''
not so...and i assume the situation there similar to here .
candidates DO fail...but happily the standard of instruction these days even in small flying clubs is good.
highest failure rates for me at any rate...not the CPL..nor the FIR..but the PPL..and the lapsed ( often for a medical reason )PPL among older aviators.
so do'nt assume.
.........keep doing the circuits....
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ContactMeNow
[quote=ContactMeNow;2865840]I had two goes at my CPL flight test. The 1st flight was great, until i decided to stall the plane 1 foot above the runway on the LAST LANDING! Thus failed the test as it was deemed to be "unsafe". The retest was just 3 CCTS and I greased all of them....
seems harsh decision...
a partial would have been fairer but maybe the was something else...like speed control...which would breach several sections but it does not sound like that..
if you aircraft was a tail dragger i would want you to stall it at that height or lower if possible...
if not it still sounds like a good landing to me...assuming you did'nt turn right on touchdowm towards the nearest hangar...!!!!
if all else went well ( and i assume it did) i would have asked you to do it again...if the second did not go well...i would give a partial..that would be cheaper on you than a full new test..
anyway well done despite the possible harsh decision..you got it second time...and its all experience
seems harsh decision...
a partial would have been fairer but maybe the was something else...like speed control...which would breach several sections but it does not sound like that..
if you aircraft was a tail dragger i would want you to stall it at that height or lower if possible...
if not it still sounds like a good landing to me...assuming you did'nt turn right on touchdowm towards the nearest hangar...!!!!
if all else went well ( and i assume it did) i would have asked you to do it again...if the second did not go well...i would give a partial..that would be cheaper on you than a full new test..
anyway well done despite the possible harsh decision..you got it second time...and its all experience
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C.C.... blokes like MAX need to be shown the door.....aviation doesnt need these types of individuals....In saying that,I,m not advocating passing any and all that dont make the grade....but,the one thing a good instructor needs to do is to "set the tone" so that you give it your best shot and pass...nobody does well with some pr#ck breathing down your neck..
me,...never flunked a ride(cash is always best$$$$$$)...but 8 violations and two crashes....
me,...never flunked a ride(cash is always best$$$$$$)...but 8 violations and two crashes....