Pilot Pay Comparison
Thread Starter
Pilot Pay Comparison
After reading the rubbish that Alan Joyce has been sprouting in the media over last week over how over paid QF pilots are and how Jetstar is an industry average etc I decided to do some research.
The following is all in Australian dollars, The US tax system is different and you will pay less tax, you also get less holidays in the US than Australia. You’d be starting on 2 weeks annual and work your way up from there. Endorsements in the States are also cheaper. Profit sharing in the US can give you an extra 5% - 7% depending on who you work for. The company will also cover you command training.
Also note that USAir is effectively broke and has joined with America West who pay a bit more. Alan said recently that Jetstar’s pay was comparable to USAirs. (which it isn’t !)
This comparison is done on 80 hours a month to make it a fair.
For this to be really accurate comparison we’d also have to do a cost of living index in Sydney and Melbourne against the US Cities you could be based at. Someone with an Economics degree and a bit of spare time might be able to help us out on that one!
Jetstar
6 weeks Annual Leave
+ Allowances
$35 000 for endo + Food Accomodation (they are now doing the endo in NZ so forgot shacking up with relos or friends in Auz!)
$15 000 for command upgrade
RDO’s can be counted overseas
A320
Capt $141 860
FO $ 85 116
A330
Capt $ 153 210
FO $91 926
Southwest
BYO Endo
+ Allowances
+ Profit Sharing Program
+ Dental, Health, Life, Legal Insurance
1st Year Capt AU $ 210 455
5th Year Capt AU $ 220 519
10th Year Capt AU $ 233 048
1st Year FO AU$ 62 648
5th Year FO AU$ 142 836
10th Year FO AU$ 154 112
USAir
80 hours a month
+ Allowances
Don’t know about benefits or 401 etc.
Airline covers Training
737/A320
1st Year Capt AU $ 31 323
5th Year Capt AU $ 145 341
10th Year Capt AU $ 152 860
1st Year FO AU$ 31 323
5th Year FO AU$ 93 971
10th Year FO AU$ 103 995
A330
1st Year Capt AU $ 31 323
5th Year Capt AU $ 187 942
10th Year Capt AU $ 195 460
1st Year FO AU $ 31 323
5th Year FO AU $ 120 283
10th Year FO AU $ 132 812
JetBlue
BYO ENDO
+ Allowances
+ Dental Insurance, Health Insurance, Legal Insurance, Life Insurance
+ Profit Sharing
80 Hours a month
1st Year Capt AU $ 146 438
5th Year Capt AU $ 161 082
10th Year Capt AU $ 177 057
1st Year FO AU$ 67 894
5th Year FO AU$ 95 850
10th Year FO AU$ 101 176
The following is all in Australian dollars, The US tax system is different and you will pay less tax, you also get less holidays in the US than Australia. You’d be starting on 2 weeks annual and work your way up from there. Endorsements in the States are also cheaper. Profit sharing in the US can give you an extra 5% - 7% depending on who you work for. The company will also cover you command training.
Also note that USAir is effectively broke and has joined with America West who pay a bit more. Alan said recently that Jetstar’s pay was comparable to USAirs. (which it isn’t !)
This comparison is done on 80 hours a month to make it a fair.
For this to be really accurate comparison we’d also have to do a cost of living index in Sydney and Melbourne against the US Cities you could be based at. Someone with an Economics degree and a bit of spare time might be able to help us out on that one!
Jetstar
6 weeks Annual Leave
+ Allowances
$35 000 for endo + Food Accomodation (they are now doing the endo in NZ so forgot shacking up with relos or friends in Auz!)
$15 000 for command upgrade
RDO’s can be counted overseas
A320
Capt $141 860
FO $ 85 116
A330
Capt $ 153 210
FO $91 926
Southwest
BYO Endo
+ Allowances
+ Profit Sharing Program
+ Dental, Health, Life, Legal Insurance
1st Year Capt AU $ 210 455
5th Year Capt AU $ 220 519
10th Year Capt AU $ 233 048
1st Year FO AU$ 62 648
5th Year FO AU$ 142 836
10th Year FO AU$ 154 112
USAir
80 hours a month
+ Allowances
Don’t know about benefits or 401 etc.
Airline covers Training
737/A320
1st Year Capt AU $ 31 323
5th Year Capt AU $ 145 341
10th Year Capt AU $ 152 860
1st Year FO AU$ 31 323
5th Year FO AU$ 93 971
10th Year FO AU$ 103 995
A330
1st Year Capt AU $ 31 323
5th Year Capt AU $ 187 942
10th Year Capt AU $ 195 460
1st Year FO AU $ 31 323
5th Year FO AU $ 120 283
10th Year FO AU $ 132 812
JetBlue
BYO ENDO
+ Allowances
+ Dental Insurance, Health Insurance, Legal Insurance, Life Insurance
+ Profit Sharing
80 Hours a month
1st Year Capt AU $ 146 438
5th Year Capt AU $ 161 082
10th Year Capt AU $ 177 057
1st Year FO AU$ 67 894
5th Year FO AU$ 95 850
10th Year FO AU$ 101 176
Last edited by neville_nobody; 29th Jul 2006 at 04:37.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: with the porangi,s in Pohara
Age: 66
Posts: 983
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nev.....not trying to split hairs here,and would agree with 99% of your post....USAIR was broke until we, AWA came along and acquired USAirways...yes ACQUIRED...saved their bacon,kept them off the street...in the eyes of the money men,we,AWA acquired USAirways......we are still working off different contracts.....theirs a Chapter 11 negoiated butchered job,ours ,fair and square through negotiation
Currently,my base pay $137,500/annum
4 weeks holiday
401K plan with an extra 1O%(every fortnight) of your gross,contributed to a separate account which the company cannot touch.
other beneis,sick leave etc etc ...some good ,some ****e....
Dont have any other better offers so will stick it out making my payments on my kerikeri lifestyle block...but if you blokes in OZ are making $180gees...STAY!!!
Thats at 10yr Capt Pay
Currently,my base pay $137,500/annum
4 weeks holiday
401K plan with an extra 1O%(every fortnight) of your gross,contributed to a separate account which the company cannot touch.
other beneis,sick leave etc etc ...some good ,some ****e....
Dont have any other better offers so will stick it out making my payments on my kerikeri lifestyle block...but if you blokes in OZ are making $180gees...STAY!!!
Thats at 10yr Capt Pay
Just a couple of points about the above"
Currently, Southwest pilots are the best paid in the US apart from Fedex or UPS. Although with their fuel hedges running out and the legacy carriers getting far more competitive, I don't see them continuing to make the profits they have been. As you mentioned they are really the only carrier of their size that requires you to have paid for your type prior to the start of training.
I jumpseat on USAir every week to get to work and if anyone thinks they are living the life of Riley, then think again. They may have a payscale that looks good on paper but two things need to be remebered; Firstly they gave up most of their work rules and have a miserable QOL. Secondly, there aren't any 1st year FO's or Captains. When they furloughed, they did so back by around 18 years. You have to have been there about 20 years to be a 73 captain.
You don't have to pay for any of your training at Jetblue, including the type.
Currently, Southwest pilots are the best paid in the US apart from Fedex or UPS. Although with their fuel hedges running out and the legacy carriers getting far more competitive, I don't see them continuing to make the profits they have been. As you mentioned they are really the only carrier of their size that requires you to have paid for your type prior to the start of training.
I jumpseat on USAir every week to get to work and if anyone thinks they are living the life of Riley, then think again. They may have a payscale that looks good on paper but two things need to be remebered; Firstly they gave up most of their work rules and have a miserable QOL. Secondly, there aren't any 1st year FO's or Captains. When they furloughed, they did so back by around 18 years. You have to have been there about 20 years to be a 73 captain.
You don't have to pay for any of your training at Jetblue, including the type.
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input fellas.
Forgot to note that Jetstar's Int'l Allowances will be figured out by Jetstar on a cost of living factor at each destination. (whatever that means?)
Is there anyway someone in Jestar could earn $180 000 year in year out? Or would it be something you do once then "never again!" ?
Forgot to note that Jetstar's Int'l Allowances will be figured out by Jetstar on a cost of living factor at each destination. (whatever that means?)
Is there anyway someone in Jestar could earn $180 000 year in year out? Or would it be something you do once then "never again!" ?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: airside
Posts: 518
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe all the money AJ saves by (not) paying his pilots the "going rate"
gets put towards JetStars advertising budget.
When was the last time you saw a Qantas ad on TV?
Qantas probably can't afford TV advertising because they obviously pay their pilots way too much.
gets put towards JetStars advertising budget.
When was the last time you saw a Qantas ad on TV?
Qantas probably can't afford TV advertising because they obviously pay their pilots way too much.
Am an A320 Capt Jetstar. 800 hrs for the year $171,000.
Autobrakes,I think most of the money saved goes towards his package.
1.46million I think was the figure from last years Qantas prospectus.
Pigs at the trough.
Autobrakes,I think most of the money saved goes towards his package.
1.46million I think was the figure from last years Qantas prospectus.
Pigs at the trough.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: back in the land of OZ
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just my two cents worth.. I am an Aussie living in the USA.
The cost of living here in the USA is a major factor. Depending on which airline you work for here, most of the bases are in the major hubs, Philadelphia, Newark, JFK, Long Beach, Baltimore etc.. Cost of living in these cities is very high. I currently live in Philadelphia and pay $1300USD a month for a one bedroom hole in the wall apt!! Your everyday living expenses are higher so it is not a reasonable assumption to compare pay scales in AUSD. The salaries just like Australia are becoming less and less..
You forgot to mention the regional airlines here.. The average first year pay for a EMB145 or CRJ first officer is around $19,000USD a year! thats right! Some turboprop operators pay even less! Now try and survive in a major city on that! Just not possible! The second year is a little better at around $27,000USD. They are having such a hard time finding pilots that the minimums are around 600-1000 Total time, and 100-150 Multi Engine. (Not even enough to fly a metro back home!) 99% of these people are instructors, 172 to a jungle jet not a bad transition!
As for vacation.. I am looking forward to returning to Aus, as I would rather earn a little less and have more holiday! In the USA they live to work, not work to live. My first year I got no vacation, and after one year of service I recieved 2 weeks. However every trip is a holiday haha
I am lucky as I fly corporate. The corporate industry here is really taking off and is the only sector of the industry that offers stability. More and more pilots are seeking a career in Jet charter rather than the airlines.
Anyways just some food for thought!
Just ask me, I'll tell ya!!
The cost of living here in the USA is a major factor. Depending on which airline you work for here, most of the bases are in the major hubs, Philadelphia, Newark, JFK, Long Beach, Baltimore etc.. Cost of living in these cities is very high. I currently live in Philadelphia and pay $1300USD a month for a one bedroom hole in the wall apt!! Your everyday living expenses are higher so it is not a reasonable assumption to compare pay scales in AUSD. The salaries just like Australia are becoming less and less..
You forgot to mention the regional airlines here.. The average first year pay for a EMB145 or CRJ first officer is around $19,000USD a year! thats right! Some turboprop operators pay even less! Now try and survive in a major city on that! Just not possible! The second year is a little better at around $27,000USD. They are having such a hard time finding pilots that the minimums are around 600-1000 Total time, and 100-150 Multi Engine. (Not even enough to fly a metro back home!) 99% of these people are instructors, 172 to a jungle jet not a bad transition!
As for vacation.. I am looking forward to returning to Aus, as I would rather earn a little less and have more holiday! In the USA they live to work, not work to live. My first year I got no vacation, and after one year of service I recieved 2 weeks. However every trip is a holiday haha
I am lucky as I fly corporate. The corporate industry here is really taking off and is the only sector of the industry that offers stability. More and more pilots are seeking a career in Jet charter rather than the airlines.
Anyways just some food for thought!
Just ask me, I'll tell ya!!
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Usually Australia
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Steve888
Sorry to sound ignorant, but what's endo?
Endo probably means innuendo - A suppository. Helps when you are being screwed by the company at the negotiating table and you are out of KY jelly!
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What sort of tax rate do you pay in the US ?
Based on $19000, Oz tax rate is 10.26%
Based on $27000, oz tax rate is 14.67%
Based on $45000, oz tax rate is 20.8%
then of course, the top tax bracket is $28,200 + 47 cents for each $1 over $95,000
I am sure that the US rate wouldn't be that high.
Based on $19000, Oz tax rate is 10.26%
Based on $27000, oz tax rate is 14.67%
Based on $45000, oz tax rate is 20.8%
then of course, the top tax bracket is $28,200 + 47 cents for each $1 over $95,000
I am sure that the US rate wouldn't be that high.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by apache
What sort of tax rate do you pay in the US ?
Based on $19000, Oz tax rate is 10.26%
Based on $27000, oz tax rate is 14.67%
Based on $45000, oz tax rate is 20.8%
then of course, the top tax bracket is $28,200 + 47 cents for each $1 over $95,000
I am sure that the US rate wouldn't be that high.
Based on $19000, Oz tax rate is 10.26%
Based on $27000, oz tax rate is 14.67%
Based on $45000, oz tax rate is 20.8%
then of course, the top tax bracket is $28,200 + 47 cents for each $1 over $95,000
I am sure that the US rate wouldn't be that high.
US Federal tax rates
$0 $7,550 10% of the amount over $0
$7,550 $30,650 $755 plus 15% of the amount over 7,550
$30,650 $74,200 $4,220.00 plus 25% of the amount over 30,650
$74,200 $154,800 $15,107.50 plus 28% of the amount over 74,200
$154,800 $336,550 $37,675.50 plus 33% of the amount over 154,800
$336,550 no limit $97,653.00 plus 35% of the amount over 336,550
Then of course you also have state income tax in many states and county income taxes as well in some counties.
The above is for a single person
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
Age: 67
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by tinpis
Try seeing a Doctor in the USA or check into a hospital without a bag of cash.
Thread Starter
Yowie
You pay for your endorsement AND your command upgrade. (plus food and accomodation)
While in the US you may get paid less in a regional; in Australia to get to the Jetstar level you'd realistically have to do the whole GA scene then fly for a regional THEN you might have a chance at a job in Jetstar! I would happily replace 4-5 years in GA with a gig in a regional Jet with low pay, if the pay kept on increasing over time. Plus there's no pain involved with flying a glass cockpit jet as oppose to the whole Australian GA scene which is just a world of pain.
You pay for your endorsement AND your command upgrade. (plus food and accomodation)
While in the US you may get paid less in a regional; in Australia to get to the Jetstar level you'd realistically have to do the whole GA scene then fly for a regional THEN you might have a chance at a job in Jetstar! I would happily replace 4-5 years in GA with a gig in a regional Jet with low pay, if the pay kept on increasing over time. Plus there's no pain involved with flying a glass cockpit jet as oppose to the whole Australian GA scene which is just a world of pain.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Under the Equator
Posts: 605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apache: Living in the USA - When Federal, State and Town taxes are totalled, you then add State and town sales tax (CA = 6% + Los Angeles =8.25% 
) Also, Medicare in Australia is just 1%-2%.
Then take into consideration general living expenses...
Living in Australia or NZ doesnt look too bad....
) Also, Medicare in Australia is just 1%-2%.Then take into consideration general living expenses...
Living in Australia or NZ doesnt look too bad....
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oz
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nev,
Done all that and know some guys in Jetstar,just havent heard of the 15k for the upgrade,which,considering the fact that you have already paid for a command endo,is effn ridiculus(?)! Have to go and have a look at their AWA on that little bite on the ass!
Cheers Y
Done all that and know some guys in Jetstar,just havent heard of the 15k for the upgrade,which,considering the fact that you have already paid for a command endo,is effn ridiculus(?)! Have to go and have a look at their AWA on that little bite on the ass!
Cheers Y
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not expensive in all of USA
Previously based in Boston, flying a jungle jet for a "regional". We had a good union, and 1st year pay was about $22K. Both the Mrs and I needed to work to afford our hole in the wall place for $1065 USD per month. Health insurance and state taxes, needed 2 cars. At least groceries were cheap!
14 Days of vacation per year. 401K was good
The goal was to get outta Boston, and bid for a guernsey in Dallas where the livin' is cheaper! 2nd year pay was $31K US. A mate built a 3 bed 2 bath house in a nice neighborhood for $120K in Dallas: My point; South/South eastern US is so much less expensive than the "junior" major hubs(Philly, Boston, Laguardia, Newark, LAX.).
WP
14 Days of vacation per year. 401K was good
The goal was to get outta Boston, and bid for a guernsey in Dallas where the livin' is cheaper! 2nd year pay was $31K US. A mate built a 3 bed 2 bath house in a nice neighborhood for $120K in Dallas: My point; South/South eastern US is so much less expensive than the "junior" major hubs(Philly, Boston, Laguardia, Newark, LAX.).
WP
Last edited by Wanikiba_pilot; 31st Jul 2006 at 23:15.