QF & the word HEAVY!!!
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TL..........MATE!!!.......I dont make the rules....just follow them......****e!!! blow me down blue..I forgot... in oz you make the rules...what an idiot I am
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Is the HEAVY suffix a variation from or alignment to ICAO standard procedures?
And somebody please explain how QF446 HEAVY calling a separate frequency before you gives you any idea that you're following a hvy? You may even be following an aircraft with 60 track miles on the other side of the TMA...
... isn't situational awarenesss better suited to a description of the leading aircraft once in the circuit or on final?
And somebody please explain how QF446 HEAVY calling a separate frequency before you gives you any idea that you're following a hvy? You may even be following an aircraft with 60 track miles on the other side of the TMA...
... isn't situational awarenesss better suited to a description of the leading aircraft once in the circuit or on final?
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Duff Man....if you are referring to my post thats exactly my point(reckon Ill have to get ito detail next time)...thought it was obvious but guess not.......for me its major use is for in-trail spacing....
but also at altitude....now that we have only a 1000ft vertical separation(USA) on several occassions ATC has given a crossing or opposite traffic "caution wake turbulence" call for passing "Heavy" traffic that is above...and on several occassions we have recieved a half pai bump....the calls I reckon are out of professional courtesy,as theres not really much you can do...unless it is a major upset,none that Ive heard of....Duf,your profile says your in ATC,now I,m really confused....reckon weve beat this to death
but also at altitude....now that we have only a 1000ft vertical separation(USA) on several occassions ATC has given a crossing or opposite traffic "caution wake turbulence" call for passing "Heavy" traffic that is above...and on several occassions we have recieved a half pai bump....the calls I reckon are out of professional courtesy,as theres not really much you can do...unless it is a major upset,none that Ive heard of....Duf,your profile says your in ATC,now I,m really confused....reckon weve beat this to death
Last edited by pakeha-boy; 14th Jul 2006 at 02:40.
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pakeha-boy, yes I suppose I was referring to your post, and am an ATC, but I've re-read yours and correct me if I'm wrong but you're claiming that as a pilot following a heavy, that heavy's use of "HEAVY" suffix improves your situational awareness esp for intrail spacing. I disagree with that specific point. At least in AU, the "HEAVY" suffix is only used on 1st contact with APP/TWR, so if you're following QF3 over the drink then the first chance you get to know that QF3 is hvy is when he calls socal app (unless the US procedures are such that QF3 is "HEAVY" on every single r/t call with a US atc) ... and at that point in time you're listening to centre on a different freq, so how did you get to know that QF3 is hvy??? .... I'm guessing here it's coz the US procedure is quite different to AU, where they say HEAVY all the time (both pilots and atc) and in AU pilots only say it once and ATC never.
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Duff....if you are reffering to socal app then you are correct....upon intial contact 'Heavy" is used and when ever you are following a "heavy" app control informs you of that...for what other reason than situational awareness would ATC give you that info if it were not for wake turbulence?????..... not trying to be a smart-arse here mate....but sitting in ATC and sitting in my cockpit behind a 747,any heavy or a 757 is "situational awarness....falling off your chair in the ATC buliding is not the same as being hit by "good" wake!!!
When will y'all learn to say "recieved [info]" on first contact?
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Dude, NZ requirement is to read back QNH. If you just say "info..." to a kiwi ATCer they will tell you the QNH and ask you to read it back.
Personally, I think it's a good thing. It is too easy to write down a QNH that is 10hPa high or low, and this is another confirmation opportunity.
....for what it's worth.....
Personally, I think it's a good thing. It is too easy to write down a QNH that is 10hPa high or low, and this is another confirmation opportunity.
....for what it's worth.....
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Yes - any chance of reporting your assigned level now and then? I assume you don't call with the ATIS in NZ except to the TWR?
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 14th Jul 2006 at 11:08.
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Callsign, A/C type, speed, cleared level, atis info and ONH....all to be conveyed to the "director" (pommy approach controller) when you check-in on approach in descent.....ya dont have to say heavy 
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directorhellomonarch343aboeing767speed320toobexildescendingf l110withcharlie1013....
Its gets competitve....the rules are hold your breath for 30 seconds before making the call..or saying it in a foreign accent...or...doing it with the EROS mask on with the accompaning darth-vader breathing noises (actually this tactic can be employed at any stage)..or pressing transmit intermittently to try and get that authentic mobile phone call quality.
The list goes on
Still dont have to say "heavy"
Its gets competitve....the rules are hold your breath for 30 seconds before making the call..or saying it in a foreign accent...or...doing it with the EROS mask on with the accompaning darth-vader breathing noises (actually this tactic can be employed at any stage)..or pressing transmit intermittently to try and get that authentic mobile phone call quality.
The list goes on
Still dont have to say "heavy"
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Frankly I would just prefer, "Monarch 343 with you" - nothing else unless you are climbing or descending, then just give me your assigned level as well.
If I want to know anything else I will ask - after all, now I will have time to ask!
Unfortunately we are going more the other way.
Even starting to hear STAR designators on first contact - good grief.
Still like 'Heavy' though.
If I want to know anything else I will ask - after all, now I will have time to ask!
Unfortunately we are going more the other way.
Even starting to hear STAR designators on first contact - good grief.
Still like 'Heavy' though.
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****su
I guess it does not matter if there is only two or three aircraft in the TMA. With predominately english as first language pilots. In UK particularly around London, before your reply think long and hard about how many aircraft go through LHR,LGW only one runway 35 millon pax a year, STN, LTN, SOU,LCY it is simply staggering the numbers it really challenges the Eastern seaboard for density. Generally controllers do not have time to ask. Same on initial contact normally into LHR or LGW controller too busy or not enough gaps and they will call you once you fit into their SA. The heavy is a good call I have had a really good shake up into PHL behind a bloody 757 we did not hear a heavy after its call sign so did not know until being shaken what we were following. Its helpful for us sorry it requires more talking really looking forward complete CPDLC operations.
I guess it does not matter if there is only two or three aircraft in the TMA. With predominately english as first language pilots. In UK particularly around London, before your reply think long and hard about how many aircraft go through LHR,LGW only one runway 35 millon pax a year, STN, LTN, SOU,LCY it is simply staggering the numbers it really challenges the Eastern seaboard for density. Generally controllers do not have time to ask. Same on initial contact normally into LHR or LGW controller too busy or not enough gaps and they will call you once you fit into their SA. The heavy is a good call I have had a really good shake up into PHL behind a bloody 757 we did not hear a heavy after its call sign so did not know until being shaken what we were following. Its helpful for us sorry it requires more talking really looking forward complete CPDLC operations.
