Abysmal Standards of Airmanship
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Abysmal Standards of Airmanship
Whats happening in aviation in Australia?
Over the past month there have been a couple of aircraft association visiting the airport where I work. In both cases there have been atrocious examples of airmanship, awareness and knowledge of procedures shown.
Radio procedures almost non-existent. One particular incident springs to mind where the pilot had to be prompted by the tower for all relevant outbound details (suspect no flight plan but merely a "Direct to" in the GPS as there was a considerable delay when asked for an outbound heading), failure to give a departure report and an immediate frequency change while still in the terminal area.
The other day we had one aircraft landing while the preceeding one was still on the runway. The second aircraft actually overtook the first while on the runway. Lord alone knows what the controller in the tower was saying at the time, I suspect it is not printable.
Now these pilots are not the recent product of a "cut-price school of flying" but should have learnt their skills in days when flying in and out of controlled areas was second nature, when full reporting flight planning was encouraged and satellite navigation was something in sci-fi books.
And its not only aircraft association members. Another incident involved a single aircraft who gave his inbound VOR radial as his heading. OK, he's not the first to get it wrong but he was then given a clearance that involved staying well clear of a certain well know installation that was on the opposite side of the aerodrome to the direction he was travelling. He acknowledged the clearance without demur. He was then asked to report right downwind for runway 12. When he finally reported it was left downwind. That really got the tower's attention who demanded to know where he was. They finally worked out that he had infringed the airspace of two departing IFR aircraft.
Guys, lift your standards because at the moment you are dragging the reputation of GA down. If you don't know, ask. Its a whole lot safer in the end for everyone.
Over the past month there have been a couple of aircraft association visiting the airport where I work. In both cases there have been atrocious examples of airmanship, awareness and knowledge of procedures shown.
Radio procedures almost non-existent. One particular incident springs to mind where the pilot had to be prompted by the tower for all relevant outbound details (suspect no flight plan but merely a "Direct to" in the GPS as there was a considerable delay when asked for an outbound heading), failure to give a departure report and an immediate frequency change while still in the terminal area.
The other day we had one aircraft landing while the preceeding one was still on the runway. The second aircraft actually overtook the first while on the runway. Lord alone knows what the controller in the tower was saying at the time, I suspect it is not printable.
Now these pilots are not the recent product of a "cut-price school of flying" but should have learnt their skills in days when flying in and out of controlled areas was second nature, when full reporting flight planning was encouraged and satellite navigation was something in sci-fi books.
And its not only aircraft association members. Another incident involved a single aircraft who gave his inbound VOR radial as his heading. OK, he's not the first to get it wrong but he was then given a clearance that involved staying well clear of a certain well know installation that was on the opposite side of the aerodrome to the direction he was travelling. He acknowledged the clearance without demur. He was then asked to report right downwind for runway 12. When he finally reported it was left downwind. That really got the tower's attention who demanded to know where he was. They finally worked out that he had infringed the airspace of two departing IFR aircraft.
Guys, lift your standards because at the moment you are dragging the reputation of GA down. If you don't know, ask. Its a whole lot safer in the end for everyone.
Last edited by PLovett; 28th May 2006 at 07:10.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 587
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Got to agree there.
When they come through my neck o the woods I cringe when wrong cct direction, bad or non existent calls and bad attitudes are the order of the day.
Most drivers at airfields around Aust. will be all too happy to help out when asked but when there is a bad attitude as well........
When they come through my neck o the woods I cringe when wrong cct direction, bad or non existent calls and bad attitudes are the order of the day.
Most drivers at airfields around Aust. will be all too happy to help out when asked but when there is a bad attitude as well........
Bottums Up
PLovett
The "certain well know installation" wouldn't be one that recently changed from R223 (or was it 233?) to Pxx9 would it? The story I heard was that a 737 overflew said installation, much to the consternation of the people within.
Lucky it wasn't over the Gulf or they'd've been shot down.
The "certain well know installation" wouldn't be one that recently changed from R223 (or was it 233?) to Pxx9 would it? The story I heard was that a 737 overflew said installation, much to the consternation of the people within.
Lucky it wasn't over the Gulf or they'd've been shot down.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: messemate way to bondi icebergs
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I had some moron in PA28 pull out on the RWY whilst I was landing at the same place me thinks last week. Tower went beserk as appropriate and I was advised that there was some paperwork pending for the PA28 driver. If you are given a taxi clearance to hold at a holding point, do it. The PA28 driver apart from just rolling through the holding point on an active RWY obviously didn't even look left or right to check whether anything was landing or taking off. Airmanship
Ignorance is Bliss
Plovett - It wasnt the comanchee club was it
I have seen them at first hand charging back into Kununurra MBZ mid morning back in 2003 after a trip to the bungles arriving at the same time as the Sling and Alligator pilots. About 20 or so Sling and Alligator and about 20 Comanchee club all converging from the south and half the Commanchee club were on the wrong frequency and no obvious use of callsigns but the use of first names etc, sent a loaded C208 around and just a general lack of airmanship/situational airmanship from the group.
Now Im all for these associations and these big flyins, they have seem like awesome fun but there seems to be a diminished responsibility when in a pack. Im sure the majority set great standards but when in large groups, a few poor performances can sully the group. (No offence to the Comanchee club, just a real example)
Ignorance is BlissPlovett - It wasnt the comanchee club was it
I have seen them at first hand charging back into Kununurra MBZ mid morning back in 2003 after a trip to the bungles arriving at the same time as the Sling and Alligator pilots. About 20 or so Sling and Alligator and about 20 Comanchee club all converging from the south and half the Commanchee club were on the wrong frequency and no obvious use of callsigns but the use of first names etc, sent a loaded C208 around and just a general lack of airmanship/situational airmanship from the group.
Now Im all for these associations and these big flyins, they have seem like awesome fun but there seems to be a diminished responsibility when in a pack. Im sure the majority set great standards but when in large groups, a few poor performances can sully the group. (No offence to the Comanchee club, just a real example)
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Permanently lost
Posts: 1,785
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt Claret
Yup. The one and only. I think the 737 incident was some time ago now. The most recent infringement was earlier this year when a C172 infringed. The pilot was invited to tea and bikkies and to perform a rug dance by way of explanation.
drshmoo
Right manufacturer but wrong association but there was also a rival manufacturer a week or so earlier that managed to damage the reputation of GA quite effectively as well. I think you are quite right about the pack mentality, it was certainly a factor in the landing incident.
Yup. The one and only. I think the 737 incident was some time ago now. The most recent infringement was earlier this year when a C172 infringed. The pilot was invited to tea and bikkies and to perform a rug dance by way of explanation.
drshmoo
Right manufacturer but wrong association but there was also a rival manufacturer a week or so earlier that managed to damage the reputation of GA quite effectively as well. I think you are quite right about the pack mentality, it was certainly a factor in the landing incident.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Claret.
If that was R233 you mentioned the worst thing the aircraft could have done is interupt briefly the downlink of classified data to the ground station, by microwave radio link. The data stream is rather weak coming in from satellites at 36000 miles above.
This would indeed p*ss off those receiving the data as much of it is highly sensitive. You can fly over it but at a higher altitude.
If that was R233 you mentioned the worst thing the aircraft could have done is interupt briefly the downlink of classified data to the ground station, by microwave radio link. The data stream is rather weak coming in from satellites at 36000 miles above.
This would indeed p*ss off those receiving the data as much of it is highly sensitive. You can fly over it but at a higher altitude.
Ahh, its the microwave causing interference! I thought it was the radar head... for each time I fly within about a mile of my local radar installation, each time the beam is pointed in my direction my headset gives a burst of static...
According to NAIPS it doesn't exist, however the 2xx series of restricted areas are only in Darwin and Adelaide, Darwin currently has an exercise on, so I'm guessing...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pine Gap
17 May 05
17 May 05
VH-VBV Boeing Co 737-700 Air Transport PRD Area
The aircraft was approaching on the 155 VOR radial and was cleared from 30 NM to track direct to right base for a visual approach to runway 12. Shortly after the aircraft had turned onto base leg, a security officer at Pine Gap reported to the tower controller that the aircraft had penetrated R233. The crew disputed the report stating that they tracked to the Temple Bar locator from the south and passed north of R233
The aircraft was approaching on the 155 VOR radial and was cleared from 30 NM to track direct to right base for a visual approach to runway 12. Shortly after the aircraft had turned onto base leg, a security officer at Pine Gap reported to the tower controller that the aircraft had penetrated R233. The crew disputed the report stating that they tracked to the Temple Bar locator from the south and passed north of R233
Last edited by Pass-A-Frozo; 28th May 2006 at 16:49.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Crookwell
Posts: 333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
drshmoo
That happens several times EVERY year in the said jewel of the east kimberley. I recall many go arounds and near-hits when the C172/Bonanza/[Insert struggler-mobile here] club visits knx. Write off getting a radio call in while they're inbound, having a chat on frequency about what bob's EGT is doing.....
We once had some bonanza tourers come into the office and ask for a photocopy of a local WAC. When quizzed on how they got here, they described a product of the Garmin Corporation
And of all the itinerant visitors, hardly any would come in for a briefing on the bungles procedures, gave it a shot anyway (by coincidence the same time 20 sling and gator aircraft were doing the same) and consequently fcuked it up with more near hits! Cmon guys it even says come and ask for a briefing in the ERSA, no wait, that was left back where your maps were
An amusing memory comes to mind when a certain jabiru after being swamped with inbound aircraft over the bungles and asked for a position they called "bugging out" and departing the pattern.
We all in knx were only too happy to help out when asked, by suggesting a less busy time to do the flight, giving a detailed briefing or even offering for them to follow us down.
You dont have to be 'paid' to act professional.
Disco
That happens several times EVERY year in the said jewel of the east kimberley. I recall many go arounds and near-hits when the C172/Bonanza/[Insert struggler-mobile here] club visits knx. Write off getting a radio call in while they're inbound, having a chat on frequency about what bob's EGT is doing.....
We once had some bonanza tourers come into the office and ask for a photocopy of a local WAC. When quizzed on how they got here, they described a product of the Garmin Corporation
And of all the itinerant visitors, hardly any would come in for a briefing on the bungles procedures, gave it a shot anyway (by coincidence the same time 20 sling and gator aircraft were doing the same) and consequently fcuked it up with more near hits! Cmon guys it even says come and ask for a briefing in the ERSA, no wait, that was left back where your maps were
An amusing memory comes to mind when a certain jabiru after being swamped with inbound aircraft over the bungles and asked for a position they called "bugging out" and departing the pattern.
We all in knx were only too happy to help out when asked, by suggesting a less busy time to do the flight, giving a detailed briefing or even offering for them to follow us down.
You dont have to be 'paid' to act professional.
Disco
Bottums Up
drshmoo
Had a similar experience not all that long ago. Holding @ Charlie with a Piper Saratoga (can't remember if it was a single or twin
) back tracking and told to exit first right (Delta). When the piper acknowledged we were cleared to Enter, backtrack & line up, piper exiting at Delta".
As we commenced entering the piper's speed seemed too fast so we dawdled as the piper shot straight through bot intersections.
Could've been a nice T-Bone!
Had a similar experience not all that long ago. Holding @ Charlie with a Piper Saratoga (can't remember if it was a single or twin
) back tracking and told to exit first right (Delta). When the piper acknowledged we were cleared to Enter, backtrack & line up, piper exiting at Delta". As we commenced entering the piper's speed seemed too fast so we dawdled as the piper shot straight through bot intersections.
Could've been a nice T-Bone!
