Instructor jobs??
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Instructor jobs??
Am looking around for cpl courses and would like to head to OZ with the aim of hanging around for a while instructing/any flying. Thing is i'm hearing things about 14000 cpl holders not currently working out there. Do you guys think this to be true?
That 14000 includes pilots who just got the CPL because they wanted the extra trainning/ sticker in log book/ or because they could, with no intention of ever taking it up as a Profession. It's bad down here, but it's not that bad.
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Continuing on along the same line of discussion as the original post.........
Can any one shed some light on the flying schools/aeroclubs in Australia that offer instructor rating courses and which of these flying schools/aeroclubs can offer an instructing job at the end of the course.
Cheers.
Can any one shed some light on the flying schools/aeroclubs in Australia that offer instructor rating courses and which of these flying schools/aeroclubs can offer an instructing job at the end of the course.
Cheers.
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It depends which state you are planning to go to, and if it's in a city or country.
Otherwise, you can pick and choose. Most of them offer the FIC ( flight instructor course ) from time to time.
Eight Ball
Otherwise, you can pick and choose. Most of them offer the FIC ( flight instructor course ) from time to time.
Eight Ball
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Originally Posted by h1tman47
Can any one shed some light on the flying schools/aeroclubs in Australia that offer instructor rating courses and which of these flying schools/aeroclubs can offer an instructing job at the end of the course.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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Dying Profession.
pinns,
I did a lot of research and phoning around before I did my instructor rating, unfortunately what I was told on the phone was totally inaccurate. It was only after completing the rating I found that there was a large number of instructors unable to obtain full time work on a stable wage.
The present situation is that there is a large number of junior instructors jostling for work, all of which is casual part-time except for a few exceptions. The result is that instructors are getting very little flying and having to live on meagre wages.
As a Grade3 instructor I have been offered anything from $25/hr to $35/hr. In addition I may only fly 1 or 2 hours per day and on some days no flying at all. The result is that I have to work evenings to pay of my loan. Fortunately my other half is a builder which reduces the financial strain. The award is a joke which very few people pay, yet there are flying schools promoting this rating knowing fully well what the real situation is.
The AFAP apparently are trying to obtain an increased salary in the award, however how that works with the present IR laws only they really know. It appears young people starting out on this route unless they make the airlines are doomed to low salaries and a very unstable life style.
I did a lot of research and phoning around before I did my instructor rating, unfortunately what I was told on the phone was totally inaccurate. It was only after completing the rating I found that there was a large number of instructors unable to obtain full time work on a stable wage.
The present situation is that there is a large number of junior instructors jostling for work, all of which is casual part-time except for a few exceptions. The result is that instructors are getting very little flying and having to live on meagre wages.
As a Grade3 instructor I have been offered anything from $25/hr to $35/hr. In addition I may only fly 1 or 2 hours per day and on some days no flying at all. The result is that I have to work evenings to pay of my loan. Fortunately my other half is a builder which reduces the financial strain. The award is a joke which very few people pay, yet there are flying schools promoting this rating knowing fully well what the real situation is.
The AFAP apparently are trying to obtain an increased salary in the award, however how that works with the present IR laws only they really know. It appears young people starting out on this route unless they make the airlines are doomed to low salaries and a very unstable life style.
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Don't expect a full-time job until you've got at least 100 hours ab-initio and can train unsupervised. Look for schools that pay a wage, not an hourly rate based on flying (rare but very much worth it!).
I also recommend reading the Savvy Flight Instructor for any new or wannabe instructors. Don't be fooled - CFI in the USA means certified flying instructor, not chief flying instructor. It will give you a stack of tips on how to keep students flowing through.
I also recommend reading the Savvy Flight Instructor for any new or wannabe instructors. Don't be fooled - CFI in the USA means certified flying instructor, not chief flying instructor. It will give you a stack of tips on how to keep students flowing through.
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In Oz you need more than 100 hours instructing. I know of instructors with a lot more than that instructing but have been held back by their employers in order to make them less flexible to move. You would be better going to the US and get the hours there.
Unless you have at least a GR.2 with twin training approval, you dont have much to offer.
Unless you have at least a GR.2 with twin training approval, you dont have much to offer.
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A CPL and instructor rating is great in Aus - but if you like food sometimes make sure you have a proper job as well. It seems many of the 14000 actually start or end up doing something else as well, usually much more financially rewarding. (not difficult!) I would be seriously concerned if either of my teenagers were to consder GA in Aus as any kind of a serious job.
Capt. Wingdrop.
There are a lot of people in GA who worked really hard and are still working hard for very low salaries. I'm sure they started with the same view as you and didn't make it.
A lot of my peers didn't make it either through no fault of their own, just no opportunities. I was lucky, just had the right passport which gave me the break. Some of my colleagues are still instructing at BK after doing the " Hard Yards" in the bush.
It is a real pity people here don't tell it the way it is, unfortunately by giving people false hope they attract young hopefulls who really have no chance to advance beyong GA.
pinns84, just remember some people who post here have their own agendas. There are pilots here pushing the flying career in the hope to attract people like you so that they can build hours at your expense. It's a tough, selfish business.
A lot of my peers didn't make it either through no fault of their own, just no opportunities. I was lucky, just had the right passport which gave me the break. Some of my colleagues are still instructing at BK after doing the " Hard Yards" in the bush.
It is a real pity people here don't tell it the way it is, unfortunately by giving people false hope they attract young hopefulls who really have no chance to advance beyong GA.
pinns84, just remember some people who post here have their own agendas. There are pilots here pushing the flying career in the hope to attract people like you so that they can build hours at your expense. It's a tough, selfish business.
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I agree with you - there will always be people who work their ass off and still won't be able to make it. It's the same with almost every industry - legal, IT, sales - not everyone will get their ideal result.
I don't believe I was offering false hope and I have no agenda to push in this forum.
My point was if you really want to achieve something you've got to give it your best. There is no such thing as luck. Luck is when good preparation meets opportunity.
Prepare yourself as best as you can and one day an opportunity will come along.
I'm not saying anything is going to be easy, but the amount of negativity in the forum frustrates me.
I don't believe I was offering false hope and I have no agenda to push in this forum.
My point was if you really want to achieve something you've got to give it your best. There is no such thing as luck. Luck is when good preparation meets opportunity.
Prepare yourself as best as you can and one day an opportunity will come along.
I'm not saying anything is going to be easy, but the amount of negativity in the forum frustrates me.
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Maybe its like the acting profession. You have the same chance as anyone to be a big star - but if you need something more than a hobby (probably the only option for most of the unemployed 14000 CPL's), make sure you have something you can pay for the hobby with. That's not negativity, just statistical reality in this country.
Capt, George
Capt:
People in IT and the legal business don't spend 70k just to get going and then some more to hopefully advance, only to find they only get paid in our case when your flying, so much so many instructors are earning below the bread line.
A charter pilot on a C402 is on 42K after spending all that money, working for people who are out to take full advantage of the glut of pilots. Your living in a fools paradise.
George:
As you said a swarm of pilots in Kunna's. If this stupidity continues a group of us and I mean retired airline guys will start up a flying school & charter business and employ young dreamers like yourselves. What a great business low costs and willing slaves and guess what? you can pay us for ICUS time while you are flying our aircraft. I would call it a great business model.
People in IT and the legal business don't spend 70k just to get going and then some more to hopefully advance, only to find they only get paid in our case when your flying, so much so many instructors are earning below the bread line.
A charter pilot on a C402 is on 42K after spending all that money, working for people who are out to take full advantage of the glut of pilots. Your living in a fools paradise.
George:
As you said a swarm of pilots in Kunna's. If this stupidity continues a group of us and I mean retired airline guys will start up a flying school & charter business and employ young dreamers like yourselves. What a great business low costs and willing slaves and guess what? you can pay us for ICUS time while you are flying our aircraft. I would call it a great business model.
There is no such thing as luck. Luck is when good preparation meets opportunity.
FLYING JOBS
There are horror stories and there are great stories. There are some great employers who try to do the right thing and then there are the others, used car salesmen running GA companies. There are also bad employeesand there are great employees.
Work hard, be honest, follow the rules and stay safe. Not many people will end up in the front of a Boeing or Airbus but then not everyone wants to. There are some great places to live and work around this country and sure the bank balance may not always be as healthy as it could be in other careers but the chance to live and work around the country is valuable, how do you value that?
Remember ONE THING and that is that your reputation as a pilot is like virginity, once it is gone there is no recovery. Aviation in Australia is a VERY small pond and I speak weekly with pilots from all around the country and get to know who is up to what and when. So when the time comes for your first turbine job remember that everything that you have done before matters. You cannot start being professional once you have that BIG JOB. That starts from day one.
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Wise words
Finally there is a lot of factual and sound advice on this subject
Icarus has a sound summary here.
Most new pilots will not make it to the major airlines, but some will.
Some will get jobs and good experience in GA- many will not suvive, and will drop out soon. Some may not get started, beyond the "hobby"stage. Some will make a good living in GA for decades, doing what they like doing.
Outside the airlines, hardly anyone gets rich in aviation, except those who sell aeroplanes to fools, and teach other fools to fly them. But there are many career aviators in GA who stay for decades.
Every part of the aviation industry needs people who are sensible, responsible, reliable, self reliant, capable individuals, who can work as part of a big team. Same as the major airlines do.
We can kill the people just as dead as the medical profession. The responsibility is huge, even though the aeroplane may not be. It does not vary with the size of the aeoplane, or the location.
It's a bit like acting. A few make big bucks. Most do not. For some it's a hobby. And your fortunes depend on what you have already done, and how well you have done it.
MBA 747
There are already charter operators who exploit young pilots as almost "slave labour" and have them paying for ICUS etc so they can undercut the genuine operators out there. It is a huge poblem. Mostly they are not the best operators on the field. They are destroying the industry and their own credibility.
Icarus has a sound summary here.
Most new pilots will not make it to the major airlines, but some will.
Some will get jobs and good experience in GA- many will not suvive, and will drop out soon. Some may not get started, beyond the "hobby"stage. Some will make a good living in GA for decades, doing what they like doing.
Outside the airlines, hardly anyone gets rich in aviation, except those who sell aeroplanes to fools, and teach other fools to fly them. But there are many career aviators in GA who stay for decades.
Every part of the aviation industry needs people who are sensible, responsible, reliable, self reliant, capable individuals, who can work as part of a big team. Same as the major airlines do.
We can kill the people just as dead as the medical profession. The responsibility is huge, even though the aeroplane may not be. It does not vary with the size of the aeoplane, or the location.
It's a bit like acting. A few make big bucks. Most do not. For some it's a hobby. And your fortunes depend on what you have already done, and how well you have done it.
MBA 747
There are already charter operators who exploit young pilots as almost "slave labour" and have them paying for ICUS etc so they can undercut the genuine operators out there. It is a huge poblem. Mostly they are not the best operators on the field. They are destroying the industry and their own credibility.
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MBA747
It doesn't seem to matter what I say, you'll disagree and find some way to shed a negative light on aviation in Australia. There have been a number of your posts within PPrune that support this.
I'm guessing someone has ****ed you over and now it is your mission in life to destroy the ambitions of new pilots or those that are actually succeeding.
Things are not great, but why so much negativity?
I'm guessing someone has ****ed you over and now it is your mission in life to destroy the ambitions of new pilots or those that are actually succeeding.
Things are not great, but why so much negativity?
INSTRUCTOR JOBS IN OZ
Pinns,
I have been flying since 1982 and chose to stay in GA because i love it, so perhaps my viewpoint will be a bit slanted but here i go. First be aware that if you come out from wales, there will be a couple of issues. First be aware that the system over here is a bit different to yours. I believe that you guys dont neccesarily have to have an instructor rating to instruct. Over here you do, and you should budget about $12,000 to complete it on top of your costs for your CPL.
Second i think your age will play a part. If you are over about 25 i think you would find yourself slightly more employable. I think there is a general preference for slightly older staff.
Thirdly,think how you are wanting to use the instructor rating. If you are wanting to travel around Australia and instruct, i doubt that will work. Most schools would be looking for someone to hang around and progress with them. I believe you would be more successful if you dropped yourself somewhere with a view to staying longer term.
In my opinion any school that guaranteed you a job at the end is possibly someone you dont want to consider. Admittedly i have worked for one company that was the exception to this rule. Generally you cant offer someone a job prior to them completing the rating, because you dont know how they will perform. Any school that operates that is likely to have a portion of dud instructors that would be having a negative impact on their business.
Also consider work righs issues for a foreign citizen.
I am an instructor and not trying to solicit business because i have substantially more work than i can handle. It is a great industry with salaries for experienced instructors highly competitive with what you would earn in a regional airline in Australia today. Also with the constant attack on Airline salaries, there is in my opinion, a brighter future for instructor salaries due to the shortage of experienced instructors.
The job itself is excellent if you chose to make it excellent. You get to work with people starting out at the beginning of their career who have a positive outlook and generally very keen and willing to learn. Think of how great your high school teachers job would have been if he had a whole class of students who were excited to be in class and wanted to learn everything they could.
Anyway, whatever you decide hope you have a great time over here. Cheers
I have been flying since 1982 and chose to stay in GA because i love it, so perhaps my viewpoint will be a bit slanted but here i go. First be aware that if you come out from wales, there will be a couple of issues. First be aware that the system over here is a bit different to yours. I believe that you guys dont neccesarily have to have an instructor rating to instruct. Over here you do, and you should budget about $12,000 to complete it on top of your costs for your CPL.
Second i think your age will play a part. If you are over about 25 i think you would find yourself slightly more employable. I think there is a general preference for slightly older staff.
Thirdly,think how you are wanting to use the instructor rating. If you are wanting to travel around Australia and instruct, i doubt that will work. Most schools would be looking for someone to hang around and progress with them. I believe you would be more successful if you dropped yourself somewhere with a view to staying longer term.
In my opinion any school that guaranteed you a job at the end is possibly someone you dont want to consider. Admittedly i have worked for one company that was the exception to this rule. Generally you cant offer someone a job prior to them completing the rating, because you dont know how they will perform. Any school that operates that is likely to have a portion of dud instructors that would be having a negative impact on their business.
Also consider work righs issues for a foreign citizen.
I am an instructor and not trying to solicit business because i have substantially more work than i can handle. It is a great industry with salaries for experienced instructors highly competitive with what you would earn in a regional airline in Australia today. Also with the constant attack on Airline salaries, there is in my opinion, a brighter future for instructor salaries due to the shortage of experienced instructors.
The job itself is excellent if you chose to make it excellent. You get to work with people starting out at the beginning of their career who have a positive outlook and generally very keen and willing to learn. Think of how great your high school teachers job would have been if he had a whole class of students who were excited to be in class and wanted to learn everything they could.
Anyway, whatever you decide hope you have a great time over here. Cheers