Jetstar Int. Package.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Perth
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NARROW BODY-single aisle- ie A320,A321, B757 etc...
WIDE BODY- more than one aisle- ie A330,A380, B767,777,787,747 etc...
PAY AT 1 August 2006
CAPTAINS
1. NARROW BODY (only)
2. WIDE BODY (only)
3. % more for flying wide body
1.$136 860 (1.8.06)
2.$147 809
3.(7.4%)
1.$140 966 (1.8.07)
2.$152 243
3.(7.9%)
1. $145 195 1.8.08 (EBA expired say we get 3 %)
2.$160 701
3.(10.7%)
FIRST OFFICERS (1.08.06)
60% of Captain
NARROW $82 116
WIDE $88 685
JUNIOR FIRST OFFICERS ( 1.08.06)
85% of First Officer ( 51% of Captain)
NARROW $69 799
WIDE $75 382
CRUISE FIRST OFFICER
60 % of First Officer (36% of captain)
NARROW $49 269
WIDE $53 211
MIXED FLEET
Allowance per hour of wide body flying.
(1.8.06)
Capt $136 860/ 850= $161 X 8% = $173 /h
Fo = $104 /h
Divisor goes down in line with EBA to 787.5 (1.8.07)
Loading goes from 8% to 14% 30.11.08
Overtime/ allowance paid on a ratio of narrow to wide body hours.
1.You have one free upgrade to wide body category. If you want to go back and aren't current ie solely wide body it will cost you $10000 for recency or for command upgrade $15 000.
2.Pay will be in monthly instalments.
WIDE BODY- more than one aisle- ie A330,A380, B767,777,787,747 etc...
PAY AT 1 August 2006
CAPTAINS
1. NARROW BODY (only)
2. WIDE BODY (only)
3. % more for flying wide body
1.$136 860 (1.8.06)
2.$147 809
3.(7.4%)
1.$140 966 (1.8.07)
2.$152 243
3.(7.9%)
1. $145 195 1.8.08 (EBA expired say we get 3 %)
2.$160 701
3.(10.7%)
FIRST OFFICERS (1.08.06)
60% of Captain
NARROW $82 116
WIDE $88 685
JUNIOR FIRST OFFICERS ( 1.08.06)
85% of First Officer ( 51% of Captain)
NARROW $69 799
WIDE $75 382
CRUISE FIRST OFFICER
60 % of First Officer (36% of captain)
NARROW $49 269
WIDE $53 211
MIXED FLEET
Allowance per hour of wide body flying.
(1.8.06)
Capt $136 860/ 850= $161 X 8% = $173 /h
Fo = $104 /h
Divisor goes down in line with EBA to 787.5 (1.8.07)
Loading goes from 8% to 14% 30.11.08
Overtime/ allowance paid on a ratio of narrow to wide body hours.
1.You have one free upgrade to wide body category. If you want to go back and aren't current ie solely wide body it will cost you $10000 for recency or for command upgrade $15 000.
2.Pay will be in monthly instalments.
Nunc est bibendum
Strewth, that's really crap! Just say 'no'. Remember, there isn't a gun to the head on this one. There is no reason to go your costs plus x percent. If you want the gig, work on mainline minus X%.
No wonder most QF drivers aren't seriously considering the MOU!
No wonder most QF drivers aren't seriously considering the MOU!
Thread Starter
Thanks expanding. If you are on the numbers, there goes every fo and so's career progression in Qantas forever. Jetstar Int progression will then be screwed by individual awa's. Sensational this industry.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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You G* star guys are so naive. You could've got 30-40% more. But in your hurry to screw the QF mainline guys you've screwed the aviation industry in OZ (and yourselves) forever. When you're slipping in Taipei or Saigon or Manilla or Jakarta on your two local nights in seven, with no pay or allowances and are turned around overnight in OZ for your next trip (ie spending no more than one night a week at home with your family) think about what a wonderful deal you've negotiated. You'll be forever remembered as being more damaging to our industry than the 89 s***s - and doen't blame Geoff - all you had to do was say no.
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G* guys, I now understand that it is not set in stone yet and that it is to be put to a vote. In that case my previous post is directed to your negotiators. For the rest of you vote no and get a better deal.You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: australia
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Apparently the best the JPC could get and good on them for getting something to bring to the troops now hopefully 250 of us can tell them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine
, well thats my hope.
, well thats my hope.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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If those figures are actual - all I can say is - I fell very sorry for you. Most other industries are getting pay increases it looks like you will be getting quite a nice pay cut.
It looks like low cut carrier = low wages also. Very low wages....
I'm now waiting for the same thing to happen here.
It looks like low cut carrier = low wages also. Very low wages....
I'm now waiting for the same thing to happen here.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Sydney
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What will you guys say to these pilots when they say no which looks likely, and the company employs GA pilots, overseas pilots wishing to come home and foreign pilots ( when Howard relaxes the labour laws ). I have got to tell you when I was spending weeks roaming around the country in a beat up old Chieftain I would have jumped at the chance to fly for that money. I knew no better. Its going to happen for this money regardless unless you stop all others accepting it. My thoughts ( and its nothing to me ) is accept it and therefore own the international seniority list at least. On the surface the money is less considering you are stuck in an international port at high cost of living so no FO will transfer and not many captains, except for an upgrading one. So all new recruits, all managament and some temp direct captains will start it BUT the domestic guys own the seniority and more domestic commands will come.
If you really think there is more money you are mistaken. There won't be as there are too many others willing to do it. If you think QANTAS can be pushed around and will bend ask the pilots at Eastern what they think now.
The minute the vote is no, the contract companies will move in. And what will you say to these pilots?? Good on you for sticking up for yourselves and ohh by the way sorry for your loss.
If you really think there is more money you are mistaken. There won't be as there are too many others willing to do it. If you think QANTAS can be pushed around and will bend ask the pilots at Eastern what they think now.
The minute the vote is no, the contract companies will move in. And what will you say to these pilots?? Good on you for sticking up for yourselves and ohh by the way sorry for your loss.
Thread Starter
Any 330 fo's want to elaborate? I would have thought these numbers would indicate a pay cut of around 40% on current paypackets being received.
God bless Australian aviation!
God bless Australian aviation!
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Somewhere in the dim, dark past I seem to recall a wise old captain telling me "Son, money is never a problem. The operator will screw you any way but which way but in the end money is never the problem."
Seem to recall his name was Dick Holt!
DK
PS>> I was earning $115,000 as a narrow body captain 17 years ago. Salaries haven't progressed much?
Seem to recall his name was Dick Holt!
DK
PS>> I was earning $115,000 as a narrow body captain 17 years ago. Salaries haven't progressed much?
Any Jokestar guys prepared to stand up on here and say "I'm not going to accept that crap!"?
(That's providing of course these numbers are real...if they're not expanding has done a lot of work making them up)
$53211 for a "Cruise F/O" on an A330/787 (i.e. Second Officer). Yay, sounds like fun!
TL
(That's providing of course these numbers are real...if they're not expanding has done a lot of work making them up)
$53211 for a "Cruise F/O" on an A330/787 (i.e. Second Officer). Yay, sounds like fun!
TL
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Maybe one day computers will fly the planes and they won't have to pay you guys a cent. The money talked about is defintely better than a dole cheque. Heard a bus driver can make about 60k with overtime.....
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The pay rates on offer by Jetstar International have been referred to as “crap” and the pilots negotiating such conditions referred to as “naive”.
Perhaps such posters could enlighten us – exactly what pay scale would you deem to be both acceptable (to you) and realistic (to the shareholders) given the startup nature of the airline. How would you formulate such a set of conditions?
At this stage it appears that Jetstar have offered First Officers a salary of $90,000 and Captains a salary of $153,000 for the first full year of operation. Does this seem unreasonable? Clearly it is less than Qantas mainline pilots receive but are they the true benchmark. Surely the net for reference must be cast much wider than just one industrially bloated incumbent carrier. Is the offer totally unreasonable when compared to Virgin Blue, Virgin Pacific, National Jet, Skywest, Air Pacific, Freedom, Air New Zealand or Jetconnect or does it fall within the margins? Qantas pilot numbers are becoming a smaller percentage of the wider industry.
Pilots often make reference to Jetstar salary levels as being below “industry standard” without fully understanding that such a “standard” (if one really exists) is dynamic. Surely the rules were going to change following de-regulation, the collapse of Ansett, the shifting in Government aviation policy (with still greater change to come), altering consumer demands and the liberalization of global capital markets.
Perhaps such posters could enlighten us – exactly what pay scale would you deem to be both acceptable (to you) and realistic (to the shareholders) given the startup nature of the airline. How would you formulate such a set of conditions?
At this stage it appears that Jetstar have offered First Officers a salary of $90,000 and Captains a salary of $153,000 for the first full year of operation. Does this seem unreasonable? Clearly it is less than Qantas mainline pilots receive but are they the true benchmark. Surely the net for reference must be cast much wider than just one industrially bloated incumbent carrier. Is the offer totally unreasonable when compared to Virgin Blue, Virgin Pacific, National Jet, Skywest, Air Pacific, Freedom, Air New Zealand or Jetconnect or does it fall within the margins? Qantas pilot numbers are becoming a smaller percentage of the wider industry.
Pilots often make reference to Jetstar salary levels as being below “industry standard” without fully understanding that such a “standard” (if one really exists) is dynamic. Surely the rules were going to change following de-regulation, the collapse of Ansett, the shifting in Government aviation policy (with still greater change to come), altering consumer demands and the liberalization of global capital markets.
Grandpa Aerotart
Yes things are surely terrible at J* and all the pilots are just stupid morons who's sole aim in life is to screw mainline pilots
The biggest difference between J* and mainline will be J* pilots are paid to work while mainline are paid to sit in hotels...the hrly rate will actually be higher at J* but they won't be getting the 5+ credit hrs/day down route.
If a J* captain flys 900 hrs/yr he'll gross in excess of 185K...not sure about F/Os but in the vicinity of 70% of that figure.
It's not mainline but it's not THAT terrible either.
For those mainline pilots suggesting 'just say no' time to grow up. Come hell or high water mainline will not get this flying....if it's not J* it will be, as some suggested above, the domain of Rishworth, Parc etc.
That would be the WORST possible outcome.
It is inconceivable that current J* pilots should not try to get the flying on the best terms that THEY believe it is possible to get...and their pilot group has some clever and WELL connected people on it...they KNOW the lay of the land and KNOW the result if they demand too much.
A % of QF mainline pilots live in lah lah land....the vociferous ones who post here for starters. If anyone at QF seriously thinks the J* pilot body should seriously consider basing their futures on the desires of another pilot body, who would gladly see them, J* pilots, all unemployed, they are just playing with themselves.
The reality of J* pay NOW is close to 180K gross for captains...J* international will be more by whatever %. They have some of the best overtime/work on day off T&Cs you'll see...the difference between mainline and J* is they don't cut in at 55 hrs/mth...how can any reasonable person suggest that overtime should cut in at 55% of the monthly hrs limit?
What J* pilots decide to do is their business...not anyone elses...it is certainly not the domain of a pilot group who thinks, like the CX pilots did, that everyone elses careers should be sacrificed at the alter of their own.
EDIT for MrWooby: Are you suggesting that QF management do not have the right to distribute flying, as they see fit, between wholly owned parts by the company they run?
The biggest difference between J* and mainline will be J* pilots are paid to work while mainline are paid to sit in hotels...the hrly rate will actually be higher at J* but they won't be getting the 5+ credit hrs/day down route.
If a J* captain flys 900 hrs/yr he'll gross in excess of 185K...not sure about F/Os but in the vicinity of 70% of that figure.
It's not mainline but it's not THAT terrible either.
For those mainline pilots suggesting 'just say no' time to grow up. Come hell or high water mainline will not get this flying....if it's not J* it will be, as some suggested above, the domain of Rishworth, Parc etc.
That would be the WORST possible outcome.
It is inconceivable that current J* pilots should not try to get the flying on the best terms that THEY believe it is possible to get...and their pilot group has some clever and WELL connected people on it...they KNOW the lay of the land and KNOW the result if they demand too much.
A % of QF mainline pilots live in lah lah land....the vociferous ones who post here for starters. If anyone at QF seriously thinks the J* pilot body should seriously consider basing their futures on the desires of another pilot body, who would gladly see them, J* pilots, all unemployed, they are just playing with themselves.
The reality of J* pay NOW is close to 180K gross for captains...J* international will be more by whatever %. They have some of the best overtime/work on day off T&Cs you'll see...the difference between mainline and J* is they don't cut in at 55 hrs/mth...how can any reasonable person suggest that overtime should cut in at 55% of the monthly hrs limit?
What J* pilots decide to do is their business...not anyone elses...it is certainly not the domain of a pilot group who thinks, like the CX pilots did, that everyone elses careers should be sacrificed at the alter of their own.
EDIT for MrWooby: Are you suggesting that QF management do not have the right to distribute flying, as they see fit, between wholly owned parts by the company they run?
