caravan crash at caloundra
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caravan crash at caloundra
a brand new cessna caravan has run off the runway and through the perimeter fence at caloundra after a practice glide approach went wrong. apparently the prop was in feather and the aircraft glided a bit far down the runway before touchdown (the wrong end piano keys) and had insufficient braking without the prop. a bit embarrasing for the instructor pilot i'm told
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That now makes two Aus Caravans crashed, that I know of, that were practicing a glide approach whilst the propellor was in feather.
Have to ask the question, why do these glide approaches have to be practiced with a fully feathered propellor. Surely it makes more sense to set a power setting that gives a rate of descent/glide speed to that experienced with the prop feathered.
There would then be a useable power system should it all go pear shape.
Should be a message here for those in the Single Turbine Instructor/ check/training role.
Have to ask the question, why do these glide approaches have to be practiced with a fully feathered propellor. Surely it makes more sense to set a power setting that gives a rate of descent/glide speed to that experienced with the prop feathered.
There would then be a useable power system should it all go pear shape.
Should be a message here for those in the Single Turbine Instructor/ check/training role.
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And I'm sure someone can point us to the requirement for this exercise as part of the training or is it another case of "because I can" 
or worse "watch this". 
I don't recall the manufacturer recommending this practise, or it being included in the POH.
or worse "watch this". I don't recall the manufacturer recommending this practise, or it being included in the POH.
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Don't know about the caravan but PC-9 glide approaches were flown with 5 psi set to simulate full feathered prop.
How are power settings made in the Caravan? psi?
[oh.. before anyone says it, no answers like Power Control Lever or throttle required
]
How are power settings made in the Caravan? psi?
[oh.. before anyone says it, no answers like Power Control Lever or throttle required
]
Does anyone know whether this is a requirement, is it legal? Was it a test flight?
If it was a test flight (new aircraft delivery and all) and the prop failed to unfeather, I can see this accident chain developing, but I can't for the life of me understand the requirement to demonstrate in a single engine aircraft, a feathered engine out approach for real.
I'm with Gen Ties on this one. (judgement reserved until all the facts are public, of course)
If it was a test flight (new aircraft delivery and all) and the prop failed to unfeather, I can see this accident chain developing, but I can't for the life of me understand the requirement to demonstrate in a single engine aircraft, a feathered engine out approach for real.
I'm with Gen Ties on this one. (judgement reserved until all the facts are public, of course)
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It happened doing a glide approach during an endorsment, it is not required to have the prop feathered. Normally the students feathers the prop then the instructor sets zero thrust.
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Why practice it in an aircraft with a PT56 anyway? 
I've seen one chew up and spit out a massive wedge-tailed eagle. After landing the inertial seperation thingy (can't remember the proper name) was pulled and an eagle claw the size of my hand fell out!!
I've seen one chew up and spit out a massive wedge-tailed eagle. After landing the inertial seperation thingy (can't remember the proper name) was pulled and an eagle claw the size of my hand fell out!!
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The correct way to simulate zero thrust in the C208 is Min Prop RPM 1600 and set 300-400 ftlb torque depending on speed.
Never feather the prop below 3000 ft AGL and . Do not use Lo Idle in flight.
Never feather the prop below 3000 ft AGL and . Do not use Lo Idle in flight.
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Hope they've got Breach of Warranty Insurance or similar and who is gunna pay the insurance company if they come after the PIC as they are fully entitled to do.
Last I heard they were pretty pissed off with all these amateur factory test pilots.
Chaps ANY thing you do which is NOT specifically described by the manufacturer and regulatory authority in the POH breaches the new aircraft warranty (not related to Breach Of Warranty insurance) and voids the insurance. Who then pays???
Breach of Warranty Insurance: This insurance is meant to pay the ships/aircraft mortgage in the event of a claim being denied because of a warranty that was not kept. I.E. for example the aircraft was not operated or maintianed according to agreed parameters, usually the manufacturers requirements and certification documents.
The basic principle of insurance is "in the utmost good faith". They will insure you provided you operate the aircraft in accordance with some fairly strict boundaries or warrantys on which you both agree. Step outside em and all bets are off.
Then it's a lawyers picnic.
Last I heard they were pretty pissed off with all these amateur factory test pilots.
Chaps ANY thing you do which is NOT specifically described by the manufacturer and regulatory authority in the POH breaches the new aircraft warranty (not related to Breach Of Warranty insurance) and voids the insurance. Who then pays???
Breach of Warranty Insurance: This insurance is meant to pay the ships/aircraft mortgage in the event of a claim being denied because of a warranty that was not kept. I.E. for example the aircraft was not operated or maintianed according to agreed parameters, usually the manufacturers requirements and certification documents.
The basic principle of insurance is "in the utmost good faith". They will insure you provided you operate the aircraft in accordance with some fairly strict boundaries or warrantys on which you both agree. Step outside em and all bets are off.
Then it's a lawyers picnic.
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Never flown a 208 so can someone who has explain to me how you can finish up 400+ metres past the upwind end of a 700 metre runway ?
That includes any retardation effect of a 2.5m chain wire fence as well.
WZJ was the one, registered 20 Jan 2006. ooops
tipsy
That includes any retardation effect of a 2.5m chain wire fence as well. WZJ was the one, registered 20 Jan 2006. ooops
tipsy
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The C208 glides extremely well, even the float equipped version. At 90 kts the descent rate is only 550 fpm land or 650 fpm floats.
In normal approaches when the power gets below about 500 ftlb there is significant prop drag. It can be heard and I call it 'discing'. If you pull the power all the way back to the stop with 1900 rpm set you get a massive braking effect (depending on airspeed) and pilots tend to experience and use this propeller effect during approach to advantage. Nothing wrong with that, except the noise.
With the prop feathered,you don't get that effect and rarely are pilots shown real zero thrust during training, therefore the tendency is to overshoot (CDA).
Lo Idle is for ground ops 52%Ng. Hi Idle is min 65%Ng. Once the power lever is past this setting it doesn't matter, unless you pull power back and then the engine should not slow below 65%. If you have Lo Idle improperly set in flight, the engine will slow down to 52% which is barely self sustaining and can be a flameout risk (hence CS).
In normal approaches when the power gets below about 500 ftlb there is significant prop drag. It can be heard and I call it 'discing'. If you pull the power all the way back to the stop with 1900 rpm set you get a massive braking effect (depending on airspeed) and pilots tend to experience and use this propeller effect during approach to advantage. Nothing wrong with that, except the noise.
With the prop feathered,you don't get that effect and rarely are pilots shown real zero thrust during training, therefore the tendency is to overshoot (CDA).
Lo Idle is for ground ops 52%Ng. Hi Idle is min 65%Ng. Once the power lever is past this setting it doesn't matter, unless you pull power back and then the engine should not slow below 65%. If you have Lo Idle improperly set in flight, the engine will slow down to 52% which is barely self sustaining and can be a flameout risk (hence CS).
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Yep it glides like a cessna
Why practise this? seems pointless to me when you consider setting zero-thrust is no big deal
(bit over 1000 C208B hrs here)
This wont be the first overshoot, and wont be the last...perhaps teaching students how to side-slip an aircraft to lose excess height on approach should be considered.
(and no you dont stall and spin with flaps down if you side slip properly..try it at altitude...it works!)
Why practise this? seems pointless to me when you consider setting zero-thrust is no big deal
(bit over 1000 C208B hrs here)This wont be the first overshoot, and wont be the last...perhaps teaching students how to side-slip an aircraft to lose excess height on approach should be considered.
(and no you dont stall and spin with flaps down if you side slip properly..try it at altitude...it works!)
History always repeats itself and the cowboys get caught out everytime. Feathering a single engine to "practice" a glide approach is as idiotic as cutting mixtures after take off to "simulate" a practice engine failure. It's called "practicing bleeding" and is just as stupid. You have to have a serious look at the CASA designated FOI who should have been aware of this dangerous practice going on under his nose but failed to stop it. The CFI should be sacked for lack of supervision.